Draft Fred!

[towerclimber37]

I didnt realize "the government" had a view of immigration issues. What is that view? How do you know it is the "gov'ts view"?

No, my view is the view of freedom: there should be free movement of labor and capital across state lines.

Do you have a problem with freedom??

nope..not at all..I DO have a problem with doing away with the borders. I also have a beef with being lied to by the government concerning immigration problems. And to answer your question about the governments view...we voted to pardon and naturalize the illegal immigrants back in '86 with a promise that our borders would be strengthened and illegal immigration would be controlled..that didn't happen.

I'd say that their VIEW was pretty clear! lie to the folks and get away with what you can.

Your idea of freedom smacks of socialism.

[Mike.357]

This country is so caught up in political correctness that I doubt it will ever straighten itself out. Immigration laws are a joke. How about watering stations along the border, (on our side) so the illegals do not expire from thirst? What a load of crap. Armed guards with lots of ammo and permission to engage would be a better solution. Our gov't makes it easy for illegals to enter.

When illegals are caught they may or may not be thrown out, lots of gray area on what happens. How about the recent case where a rapist was arrested and tens of other illegal immagrants were caught in the raid. Now those illegals are suing over their rights being violated. Many attorneys have commented that the illegals have a solid case and stand to win thousands of dollars in this civil case.

I am not sold on Fred just yet, he has some issues to address for me to support him. Some of his past voting records need to be explained. But I do believe that positions can change and what a person did years ago does not mean they still feel that way today. Who has not ever changed their mind?

More to the point a candidate's personal views should mean squat. An elected official is elected to represent their constituents. The views of the constituents are what should be reflected by the voting record of those elected to office. That is why is it imperative that we all correspond with our representatives, we must let our feeling be known!

[Guest Len]

Well said.

I am not sold on Fred just yet, he has some issues to address for me to support him. Some of his past voting records need to be explained. But I do believe that positions can change and what a person did years ago does not mean they still feel that way today. Who has not ever changed their mind?

More to the point a candidate's personal views should mean squat. An elected official is elected to represent their constituents. The views of the constituents are what should be reflected by the voting record of those elected to office. That is why is it imperative that we all correspond with our representatives, we must let our feeling be known!

[Marswolf]

The way I look at Fred, he isn't exactly what I want, but he is so much better than every other choice running right now I'd have to vote for him.

What we really need to do is elect representatives that actually represent our views. Or at least they need to represent my views. I really don't care about your views.

[The Rabbi]

nope..not at all..I DO have a problem with doing away with the borders. I also have a beef with being lied to by the government concerning immigration problems. And to answer your question about the governments view...we voted to pardon and naturalize the illegal immigrants back in '86 with a promise that our borders would be strengthened and illegal immigration would be controlled..that didn't happen.

I'd say that their VIEW was pretty clear! lie to the folks and get away with what you can.

Your idea of freedom smacks of socialism.

So "the government" of today is identical to "the government" of 1986??

Yes, the bill passed in 1986 was a dreadful failure. It promised stronger enforcement with sanctions against employers. No it didnt work.

So why does anyone think doing more of the same is going to work?? It won't. Because it isnt an enforcement problem, it is an economic problem.

As for socialism, telling business whom they can and cannot hire sounds more like socialism than allowing people to go in search of jobs where they want and allowing employers to hire whomever they want.

But you must come from the Brave New World of politics where government control is freedom and choice is socialism.

btw, I am now behind enemy lines in Baltimore. With people like this voting it is no wonder the whole country hasnt become a socialist workers paradise already. Everyone feels disenfranchised and alienated from gov't, unable to do anythiing but whine for more gov't benefits of one type or another.

Gd bless Tennessee! Run Fred Run.

[towerclimber37]

Rab,

WHAT in the WORLD are you doing that far North??

Maaaan! You didn't lose anything up that way did ya?

and to answer your question, YES the government today is just as corrupt (including and especially the congress) as the government back in 1986...even more so now that the BATF has become the jackbooted thugs that are working to remove every gunshop in America through legal Harrassment, intimidation and in some cases outright murder!

[The Rabbi]

No, no. You claimed implicitly that the gov't was the same, not that it had similar qualities. I am still questioning that.

As for what I am doing here, family obligations. We all got 'em.

As for BATFE, while they have some agents who are morons and totally ignorant of what their job is, overall they are par for the course. I do not think they have a mission to put all gun dealers out of business. That would be counterproductive since they would be out of a job.

[fury2neon]

As for socialism, telling business whom they can and cannot hire sounds more like socialism than allowing people to go in search of jobs where they want and allowing employers to hire whomever they want.

But you must come from the Brave New World of politics where government control is freedom and choice is socialism.

Amen Rabbi, I think people were miss educated on what socialism is. It began about the time government schools started teaching that the US is a democracy rather than a representative republic. And for those of you who don;t know the difference read anything by Jefferson, Madison, Payne and Adams. They all had very bad things to say about mob rule I mean democracies.

What happened to the US where the people believed government was the problem rather than the solution?

[Mike.357]

As for BATFE, while they have some agents who are morons and totally ignorant of what their job is, overall they are par for the course. I do not think they have a mission to put all gun dealers out of business. That would be counterproductive since they would be out of a job.

Wouldn't they still have liquor and cigarettes to worry about?

[Marswolf]

BATFE is like any other area of LE. Some of their guys are self-important punks and most are just trying to pay their mortgage.

[Mark@Sea]

The Washington Post is running some interesting quotes by Fred Thompson.

On the failed immigration bill in Congress: "No matter how much lipstick Washington tries to slap onto this legislative pig, it's not going to win any beauty contests. We should scrap this 'comprehensive' immigration bill and the whole debate until the government can show the American people that we have secured the borders -- or at least made great headway."

On efforts to ban legal guns on college campuses after the Virginia Tech shootings: "Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses -- and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all."

On concerns about global warming: "It seems scientists have noticed recently that quite a few planets in our solar system seem to be heating up a bit, including Pluto. This has led some people, not necessarily scientists, to wonder if Mars and Jupiter, non-signatories to the Kyoto Treaty, are actually inhabited by alien SUV-driving industrialists who run their air-conditioning at 60 degrees and refuse to recycle."

On the Palestinian crisis: "Let me ask you a hypothetical question. What do you think America would do if Canadian soldiers were firing dozens of missiles every day into Buffalo, N.Y.? What do you think our response would be if Mexican troops for two years had launched daily rocket attacks on San Diego ? and bragged about it? I can tell you, our response would look nothing like Israel's restrained and pinpoint reactions to daily missile attacks from Gaza."

[Mark@Sea]

And this, I stole from another forum - a poster by the name of Cosmoline...

Did you look in the Constitution? Because I'm telling you, federal criminal law and law enforcement are at the core of it. I mean, how could we have a Republic without federal criminal law? It's not like we'd just invent federal criminal law enforcement to impose an insane federal booze law. And if we did, it's not like we'd forget to disband those agencies after that booze law was repealed. And there's no way we'd expand it after the booze law was gone, to fight an imaginary crime wave. And there's absolutely no way it would become the personal mob of a very odd cross-dresser who would use it to blackmail Presidents. There's just no way!

[Guest Phantom6]

The Washington Post is running some interesting quotes by Fred Thompson.

On the failed immigration bill in Congress: "No matter how much lipstick Washington tries to slap onto this legislative pig, it's not going to win any beauty contests. We should scrap this 'comprehensive' immigration bill and the whole debate until the government can show the American people that we have secured the borders -- or at least made great headway."

On efforts to ban legal guns on college campuses after the Virginia Tech shootings: "Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses -- and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all."

On concerns about global warming: "It seems scientists have noticed recently that quite a few planets in our solar system seem to be heating up a bit, including Pluto. This has led some people, not necessarily scientists, to wonder if Mars and Jupiter, non-signatories to the Kyoto Treaty, are actually inhabited by alien SUV-driving industrialists who run their air-conditioning at 60 degrees and refuse to recycle."

On the Palestinian crisis: "Let me ask you a hypothetical question. What do you think America would do if Canadian soldiers were firing dozens of missiles every day into Buffalo, N.Y.? What do you think our response would be if Mexican troops for two years had launched daily rocket attacks on San Diego ? and bragged about it? I can tell you, our response would look nothing like Israel's restrained and pinpoint reactions to daily missile attacks from Gaza."

God Bless Fred.

[towerclimber37]

BATFE is like any other area of LE. Some of their guys are self-important punks and most are just trying to pay their mortgage.

No, BATFE isn't like other areas of law enforcement. I have YET to see another arm of the federal government surround an innocent mans' house, shoot his 12 year old son in the BACK, then shoot his wife through a window while she was holding a tiny baby, killing her, then get on a bullhorn and GLOAT about it. I have YET to see another LE arm that is so corrupt that the national guard pulls out of the operation.

Defend them if you like Mars but when the sum total of what they do destroys more than it helps, they cease to be an asset to the nation, and in my opinion, when they begin to kill people who have done NO HARM to another person simply because they won't cooperate or they don't believe the same as the rest of us, then the blood of the innocent is on the whole organization.

as a whole they share in the triumphs so should they share in the disgrace.

[Marswolf]

Tower, I'll stick by my statement. The BATFE has some people who shouldn't be in their position, but most just want to pay the mortgage. In general, the laws are the problem, not the BATFE personnel, although as mentioned there are some exceptions. Blame the airhead legislators for the bad laws, not the people who enforce them. Reminds me of Vietnam when war protesters blamed the soldiers coming home instead of those who directed the conflict from Washington.

BTW, although ATF started the Ruby Ridge situation with their investigation of a local militia group and entrapped Weaver, they didn't shoot anyone at the site that I can recall. Those were US Marshalls and an FBI sniper.

Did you know that one of the ATF officers who died at Waco was from our area? They have a plaque in the BATFE office in Bristol in his memory. Don't think I'll say more about him on an open board, but as me in person sometime.