LEO's: a question from a civie with public service experience

[mrming]

Howdy;

I'm not quite 30, and have worked in a few jobs that were state/fed employment. These were life & death support (healthcare) that was public-facing. We were constantly coached on being respectful and polite, despite getting death and bomb threats on a regular basis because some one didnt like an outcome and blamed us.

The last few times I've been introduced to police (not official business, purely social) by people whom already knew them, I've ended up feeling... discontent. I was being introduced by someone they already knew, and my attempts at finding common ground / conversation with them were rebuffed. Typically the rebuffing has been highlighting that they have more influence, or expanded 'rights' above me. My openers had been of the 'How about that?' or 'What do you think on this?' lines. Frequently I have been (badly and inaccurately) stereotyped.

All of the gentlemen where over 40, and had fewer than 3 stripes on their arms. My question is, having been in public service of a different type.. whats going on?? Why the devisiveness? I had the impression that PD's where supposed to be about community and not just armed guards. My public service experience was the opposite.. build bridges, find common ground.. not saying we all did, just that it was coached and the worest offenders got repremanded frequently on it.

Am I unlucky? Is it this common? Or is it the good cops get promoted out of the public contact roles and into vice/drug/investigation?

I'm not meaning to be rude or insulting. I'm just honestly curious if its seen from the inside or am I just nutts?

[Im Neero]

Police are civilians too, but the way many of them behave you wouldn't think they know it. Sounds like you've just met some jerks.

[Guest Rupertus]

Maybe it's not them... Just kidding dude. Keep an open mind and try not to stereotype folks.

[BigPoppa]

Typically the rebuffing has been highlighting that they have more influence, or expanded 'rights' above me.

Can you elaborate on what exactly was said ?

Or is it the good cops get promoted out of the public contact roles and into vice/drug/investigation?

Yeah.....about that......let me just say that this has not been my observation in 15+ yrs of LE employment.

[Guest canynracer]

I would say that it sounds like you have just met a couple of scorned LEOs.

One thing though, I know that the last thing I want to do on my time off is talk about my job, when I was a mechanic, it was hey nice to meet you...may car is making this sound...and now I am into IT, Hey nice to meet you, my computer is acting up...

Maybe creating conversation that has nothing to do with the job they hold (dealing with scum 90% of the time) and talk about something that may interest you both, shooting, hunting, fishing, nascar...whatever, it may steer things differently?

just a thought. But I wouldnt hold it against all cops, just those you met..LOL

[mrming]

definitely wasn't talking business.

I had recently grown out my hair to about shoulder length. I'm an iT goon, and tend to keep it pulled back. He remarked I needed a hair cut, and that he thought I was an artsy type. I responded that I was an IT goon as a day job, and as a hobby tinker with mechanics from cars to gunsmithing.

I didn't mention having a HCP. Nor did I remark on owning anything. His next statement was "Yeah, but I've always got my gun with me!". His remark seemed oddly off context when the last thing I had done was admit to being an indiscriminate gear head.

Maybe its all me and I should just shave my head. Perhaps the long hair turned me into a liberal and going from social talking about family and who has had babies lately w/ others, to introducing me, to.. I'm armed, and you arent is just dandy.

or maybe I'm just cranky.

edit: I definitely don't hold it against cops in general. The clearly on-duty ones I've always seen be very professional. The more social situation ones has been a very mixed bag.

Edited September 6, 2008 by mrming

[DavidD]

Funny, I generally have had the opposite experiences. Just last night while at Dick's in Mt Juliet, I struck up a conversation with one of Mt Juliet's finest who was moonlighting as Security for Providence (In PD uniform w/ sidearm). He was in his late 40's to early 50's and our conversation varied from the local budget crises affecting schools to the new police chief and even to yesterdays indictment of a Mt Juliet Police officer who is "accused" of choking a suspect to try and prevent him from swallowing suspected drugs. Though I have run into a few "cocky" LEO's in my 40 years, I've found that most were professionals and chaulk any initial abrasiveness to them having to deal with a%#holes on a daily basis. Now I am a people person, wear my hair short and can carry on a conversation with just about anyone. Other than working on County/State/Government projects, I have never been a civil servant. Unfortunately, stereo typing and prejudice is all around us every day in many forms. Just as you may be developing a stereo type about LEO's, the few you have mentioned may very well be developing a stereotype about long haired hippie IT dudes so give them another chance or two before you judge.

[Marswolf]

Not being there to hear the conversation and judge the content and tone of the conversation, as well as the body language, I can't judge this.

Could be that you hit some cops with an attitude. Could be that they thought you were acting like a long-haired smart-ass. Fair or not, appearance does make a difference. Just a reality of life.

If I'm talking to LEOs socially, I don't generally try to talk business with them unless they bring something up.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Most people don't want to talk about their jobs on their off time. I'd say some of these folks don't want to be "the cop" at every social event they attend, either.

The cops I've dealt with in my life were generally decent sorts. Just a few were jerks. The governments for which they work, however, are out of control. I try to keep that perspective when dealing with the police. They're merely functionaries in a screwed up system. Most of them believe in what they're doing, though. It's the ones who are righteous and holy that bother me the most. The rest, in my experience, just want to get the bad guys.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Abominable_Hillbilly

[Marswolf]

There are different ways to approach people.

If I just walk up and say, "Hey what do you think about what the Sheriff said the other say about.... (fill in the topic)" I'll probably get one answer and it won't be informational.

If I come in and say, "Hi. I heard Sheriff ... say blah blah blah the other day. You know I've been in Federal LE for years. Just between us and it won't go any farther, what do you think of that?", I might get a bit better answer. If they aren't comfortable, I'll grin and probably get an answer later.

In all honesty, don't expect an answer if you don't look professional. Long hair is not considered professional unless you are exceptionally brilliant, even in academia. It looks affectatious or immature. Sorry, but that's the truth. No one but your immature buddies will be impressed by your long hair. Want a raise?....

Not putting anyone down. I like individualism too. Just speaking the truth. But most people aren't like me. For me it's fine, if not well thought out.

For most people it's an indication of lack of maturity and someone they can't trust.

[Guest eyebedam]

There are different ways to approach people.

If I just walk up and say, "Hey what do you think about what the Sheriff said the other say about.... (fill in the topic)" I'll probably get one answer and it won't be informational.

If I come in and say, "Hi. I heard Sheriff ... say blah blah blah the other day. You know I've been in Federal LE for years. Just between us and it won't go any farther, what do you think of that?", I might get a bit better answer. If they aren't comfortable, I'll grin and probably get an answer later.

In all honesty, don't expect an answer if you don't look professional. Long hair is not considered professional unless you are exceptionally brilliant, even in academia. It looks affectatious or immature. Sorry, but that's the truth. No one but your immature buddies will be impressed by your long hair. Want a raise?....

Not putting anyone down. I like individualism too. Just speaking the truth. But most people aren't like me. For me it's fine, if not well thought out.

For most people it's an indication of lack of maturity and someone they can't trust.

Well just out of curiousity what does a short haired/shaved guy with earrings look like? Not trying to get a big debate started or anything but I tend to see this look more often than the long haired Motley Crew look.

[Marswolf]

Well just out of curiousity what does a short haired/shaved guy with earrings look like? Not trying to get a big debate started or anything but I tend to see this look more often than the long haired Motley Crew look.

I understand your point, and I don't approach people based upon what their public persona is. Most of the jobs I have had depended on my ability to understand the person under the personage. But honestly, I think I'm not John Q Public and definitely not John Q. Cop. I'm old enough to have grown up with hippie culture. I have some facial hair myself these days since I one again retired.... I groom myself depending on what job I have. No I do not have piercings but I would if part of the job. I still look "neat" in accordance with my age. In short, I look "normal" but with facial hair that indicates some degree of superiority. I take advantages within social structure where I can. It's an act, but it works.

But I think you will find me a lot more "liberal" than most LE folks. Unkempt folks will get a lot less respect from most people involved in LE. As I say, right or wrong, that is the reality. You need to dress for success, as the saying goes. Your actual views are only important to your friends and you.

You are smarter to dress for outside success and have your friends understand (and hopefully learn) from that.