After yesterday...Impeachment should absolutely be on the table

[Oh Shoot]

Nixon resigned, Agnew resigned and this timely action caused the Speaker of the House to get to the presidency.

 

???

 

Agnew resigned, replaced by Nixon with Ford. Year later Nixon resigned, making Ford the prez. Speaker of the House succession would only happen if both Prez and Veep were vacant at same time.

 

As far BHO being impeached, I'd posit the GOP probably has had an ongoing articles doc ready to go since at least 2010 if not before. But of course wouldn't pull the trigger unless the political will were clear in both chambers. Most of the political theater we actually see on the floor of either chamber is just formalizing previously made decisions.

 

- OS

Edited November 16, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest Riciticky]

The problem with impeaching O is that you get Joe Biden. You know Joe?

[Oh Shoot]

The problem with impeaching O is that you get Joe Biden. You know Joe?

 

Been said many times, wouldn't you rather have relatively benign idiocy instead of completely diabolical shrewdness?

 

- OS

[GoneBallistic]

Been said many times, wouldn't you rather have relatively benign idiocy instead of completely diabolical shrewdness?

 

- OS

My thoughts exactly. Joe is an absolute moron. Hussein isn't much better, but he is definitely more shrewd. What I want to know is who's pulling the strings on both of them....neither one is intelligent enough to get where he is today.

[Glenn]

I think a change in language might be useful here.  Regardless of how most non-progressives feel about him, there's still a lot of distance between Obama as the elected President of the United States and "dictator".

 

He's not torturing, imprisoning or killing political opponents. No, he has his IRS do it. He's not outlawing the press.  Doesn't need too. They go along willingly. People are still free to gather. Just in certain places. People are still able to protest.  This current debate surrounding healthcare is a wonderful example of that.

 

He just lost a vote in the House with 39 Democrats joining the Republicans in a 261-157 vote to reject his "vision" from yesterday and act on their own. We will see what comes of that

 

One can argue a lot about the abuses of Executive power, and frankly that doesn't rest solely in the lap of this administration.  But, we're a long way from a dictatorship.

 

I only make this point because I think language is important - and lacking in the national discourse right now. 

[Oh Shoot]

My thoughts exactly. Joe is an absolute moron. Hussein isn't much better, but he is definitely more shrewd. What I want to know is who's pulling the strings on both of them....neither one is intelligent enough to get where he is today.

 

Bilderberg Group, of course. :tinfoil:

 

- OS

[MacGyver]

 

I think a change in language might be useful here.  Regardless of how most non-progressives feel about him, there's still a lot of distance between Obama as the elected President of the United States and "dictator".

 

He's not torturing, imprisoning or killing political opponents. No, he has his IRS do it. He's not outlawing the press.  Doesn't need too. They go along willingly. People are still free to gather. Just in certain places. People are still able to protest.  This current debate surrounding healthcare is a wonderful example of that.

 

He just lost a vote in the House with 39 Democrats joining the Republicans in a 261-157 vote to reject his "vision" from yesterday and act on their own. We will see what comes of that

 

One can argue a lot about the abuses of Executive power, and frankly that doesn't rest solely in the lap of this administration.  But, we're a long way from a dictatorship.

 

I only make this point because I think language is important - and lacking in the national discourse right now. 

 

 

The IRS hasn't tortured, imprisoned or killed any of Obama's opponents yet.  Yes, they did slow down applications.  They might (and that's a long shot might) have cost Romney the election.  That needs to be investigated and adjudicated if necessary.  But let's be clear about our language.

 

Not all of the press goes along willingly.  The Wall Street Journal has a million more daily subscribers than it's nearest two competitors.  I read it every morning.  They aren't cutting the man an inch of slack.  I haven't seen y'all's beloved Fox News skipping alongside Obama.  Yes, most of the media is centered in major population centers (New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta) and their editorial bent reflects their politics.  That's nothing new.  But both sides are represented.  The administration may have some allies in the management of the big media conglomerates, but we're a long way from state controlled media.

 

I was in Washington D.C. a few weeks ago - albeit grudgingly.  There were people protesting Obamacare in front of the White House.  That'll get you killed in a lot of places.  I've been to a bunch of them.  America isn't one of them. 

 

We've got big problems.  Let's not let them take the easy path because we're focused on the wrong things.

 

By focusing on Obama as a kind of boogeyman, you lose focus on the arguments that'll actually get you somewhere.  As soon as the word "dictator" comes out of your mouth, people are immediately dismissive of the rest of the conversation.  Why don't we focus on what he's not instead?  He's a president that has failed to deliver on a single promise he's made yet - both domestically and abroad.  He talks a big game, but when it comes to delivering, he's a complete failure. 

 

All I'm saying is that our arguments should be supported by our language. 

[wjh2657]

The Right does not have such a lofty notion. They simply want to discredit Obama so that they can seize power and screw over us just as the Left did. If you are Left, you want a dictator. If you are Right, you want a King ( the true creed of a "Conservative") We need a whole different political philosophy and a group (not a "Party") that can carry it out. Both political parties are enemies of a true Republic. Trading a Socialist for a Fascist won't help the situation.

[Glenn]

dictator

n

1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy)

a.  a ruler who is not effectively restricted by a constitution, laws, recognized opposition, etc.

b.  an absolute, esp tyrannical, ruler

 

A Dictator does not necessarily have people killed or imprisoned but if you had the IRS on your back I would say that might qualify as torture. Yep, all the press doesn't go along but a large part of it does. Low information voters don't read the Wall St Journal. Don't really know about Fox, I haven't watched it much in a couple of years. Obama is not a despot or or murderous thug, yet, but he is absolutely ruling outside the bounds of our Constitution and laws and seems to not have much effective opposition.

[gregintenn]

The problem with impeaching O is that you get Joe Biden. You know Joe?

The same reason he hasn't been assassinated by some white supremacist nut job; heck, they can even see what they'd be left with.

 

I often wonder if that was the determining factor in Biden being selected as Obama's running mate.

Edited November 15, 2013 by gregintenn

[Spiffy]

I wonder how many people looked out their window to see if anyone had ran out into the street with a rifle yet. There never was anyone when I went out ....but then we are pretty rural out here.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You could argue both sides of that last paragraph.  One would hope that the American people won't allow the government to expand a program that they've already shown themselves incompetent to run.  On the other hand, I can see the administration making the case that they can't get this right because there are so many players in the mix, and they need to nationalize to make it work. 

 

I don't think you can get to there from here, though.

 

The interesting thing about all of this is that it's nothing other than posturing.  This bill - assuming Harry Reid allows it to come up for a vote does nothing.  Obama has already said that he'll veto the Upton bill if it comes to his desk, and I don't know that either chamber has the votes to override a veto.  So, really all this bill has done is to allow 39 blue dog democrats political cover for next year by allowing them to say, "we listened to our constituents."

 

Meanwhile, this train wreck rolls on.  Nothing real has changed.  And today makes it harder to get change.  Mind you, I'm okay with that - and I'm one of the ones who gets hurt by my rates going up 250%.  Obama has misjudged.  He thought his mea culpa yesterday would make it better somehow.  Yet, his pride (and increasingly I think his pride alone) will prevent him from allowing this law to be changed until it's too late.

 

My position remains unchanged.  The DNC has never met a sure thing that they can't find a way to screw up.

And he had the chance, yesterday, if I heard things correct. Yeh, he's trying to back-pedal without knowing where reverse is. He should

look in the pond.

 

Interesting twist for me. If I got a divorce, I won't, I would be completely on the public dole, just like one of his supporters, concerning

Obamacare, since I can't go back to work. If I could have, I would be facing the Cadillac plan until next year, when all the union members

riot over his implementation. Then I would be stuck with the high prices, also.

[gregintenn]

This Obamacare stuff is working out better so far than I expected. Seriously.

[Guest ThePunisher]

This Obamacare stuff is working out better so far than I expected. Seriously.

I assume you mean as in a complete failure.

[Guest ThePunisher]

All I'm saying is that our arguments should be supported by our language.

Look where common sense and pussyfooting around has taken us the last five years. Edited November 16, 2013 by ThePunisher

[DaveTN]

Seriously? Obama isn’t going to be impeached; move on.

Obama may be a lot of things; but stupid isn’t one of them. He promised jobs and a better economy. It hasn’t happened. He is the one keeping people whining about guns and health care front and center. Keeps the focus off the tough issues.

I see people on here crying about the “sheeple” and “the uninformed”; look in the mirror. This guy takes you by the hand and leads you right down the path he wants you to go.

[Links2k]

Look where common sense and pussyfooting around has taken us the last five years.

I respectfully disagree. The Birthers and "the go back to Kenya" crowd have almost made the GOP and the TEA Party a laughing stock. As someone stated earlier, the minute that something stupid is said you are going to lose your potential audience. You need to be putting facts and solutions out there. Calling Obama a commie doesn't go very far in gaining support against bad policy.

[Links2k]

Seriously? Obama isn’t going to be impeached; move on.Obama may be a lot of things; but stupid isn’t one of them. He promised jobs and a better economy. It hasn’t happened. He is the one keeping people whining about guns and health care front and center. Keeps the focus off the tough issues.I see people on here crying about the “sheeple” and “the uninformed”; look in the mirror. This guy takes you by the hand and leads you right down the path he wants you to go.

Amen

[Sam1]

The only thing I want to know is....

When does Senator Cruz get his fucking apology?

[Guest TNSovereignty]

I see people on here crying about the “sheeple” and “the uninformed”; look in the mirror. This guy takes you by the hand and leads you right down the path he wants you to go.

Yep.

 

Here's a good test ... how many of us were Bush supporting sheeple?  I rather liked Bush more than Obama - a lot more - but he made some rather atrocious decisions in his tenure, albeit not treasonous or impeachable (that we know of.)

 

The Dems take us over the cliff at Mach 2, the GOP at a leisurely 55 mph ... with our 2 party system we have to pick one of these options.

[TrickyNicky]

Seriously? Obama isn’t going to be impeached; move on.Obama may be a lot of things; but stupid isn’t one of them. He promised jobs and a better economy. It hasn’t happened. He is the one keeping people whining about guns and health care front and center. Keeps the focus off the tough issues.I see people on here crying about the “sheeple” and “the uninformed”; look in the mirror. This guy takes you by the hand and leads you right down the path he wants you to go.

  

I respectfully disagree. The Birthers and "the go back to Kenya" crowd have almost made the GOP and the TEA Party a laughing stock. As someone stated earlier, the minute that something stupid is said you are going to lose your potential audience. You need to be putting facts and solutions out there. Calling Obama a commie doesn't go very far in gaining support against bad policy.

Sums up the last 5 years about perfectly. Of course the GOPs problems go back farther than that.

I wouldn't quite put the ACA on the same plane as the whole Kenya thing though. I think for Obama that was a great opportunity to prove to his people that he was too strong to submit to the whims of a fringe few by showing proof.

Same with the shut down. Who wouldn't love to give their opposition exactly what they publicly demanded and make it hurt so bad? He got exactly what he wanted out of that which was to "prove" that we needed all the government we have and only a lunatic would say otherwise. He also got to make the republicans out to be a bunch of cry babies who write checks they can't cash by shutting down the war monuments.

The ACA on the other hand has and will continue to crap on everyone, including his supporters. He would love for this problem to go away I'm sure. Either way, someone could leak incontrovertible video evidence, with audio, of O punching his own grandmother and he still wouldn't have a shot at impeachment.

We need to be setting our sights a bit farther, 2014 is important, 2016 will be as well. Obama is NOT going to declare himself Tsar, or King, and if America does become a communist country in the next couple of years :rolleyes: it will only be the American people to blame, not Obama.

[blueghost]

Calling Obama a commie doesn't go very far in gaining support against bad policy.

I concur wholeheartedly with you on this and I especially find it ironic how freely "commie" is used because if we truly lived under the red flag with the golden star(s) and sickle, it wouldn't be tolerated.

Moving on...re: the economy. As for me and my circle, well, we aren't complaining about our "personal" economy. Inflated, overvalued or whatever phenomenon you want to say it is, the stock market has been kind to us under Obama and I guarantee you that businesses in the Dow Jones and Nasdaq aren't complaining either. If they are, well I'm calling BS. Whether the market is over inflated or not, I could careless because I Iove my Ruger, Smith and Wesson, and Taser International stocks, hint hint and bank account is loving it more. I'm so freaking glad I didn't listen to the chicken little tin foil nitwits out there. I guarantee you that the people who hang on every word of the scare-o-ticians are probably afraid to invest because of the so called "uncertainty". Well I'm here to tell you, scared money don't make money. Long live capitalism and the stock market!!!

[Guest TNSovereignty]

 I'm so freaking glad I didn't listen to the chicken little tin foil nitwits out there. I guarantee you that the people who hang on every word of the scare-o-ticians are probably afraid to invest because of the so called "uncertainty". 

Well, I'm one of those nitwits I suppose.  Stock market is doing well now, and I'm glad some good people are making some green paper & digital money in the short-term.  But "capitalism" and "free markets" no longer exist in this country, except for a few pockets of nitwits who are gathering true wealth in the shadow economy using any commodity of value in face-to-face private transactions.  And a few of us nitwits know the history of Rome & every other civilization that debased their currency.  Oh yes, and a few nitwits know the fallacies of Keynesian economics & grasp the lessons of von Mises.  Never been a better time in American history to be a nitwit ... i.e. nitwit by mainstream standards.  

 

I think the best Presidents are the ones we never read about in history.  Calvin Coolidge was an awesome President ... he left the citizenry alone, and allowed states to exercise sovereignty.  He followed the Constitution ... and alas, is now unheard of, as Presidents were meant to be.  

 

Maybe Obama isn't best described as a dictator ... probably more of a monarch.  Our congressional parliament tries to nudge him in the right direction every now & then, or sometimes stop his most egregious ideas, all while the king's noblemen support the king in imposing his will on the ignorant masses.  All the noblemen have to do is supply the masses with great entertainment, abounding leisure opportunities, and a bank account that seemingly is doing OK. 

[blueghost]

Well, I'm one of those nitwits I suppose. Stock market is doing well now, and I'm glad some good people are making some green paper & digital money in the short-term. But "capitalism" and "free markets" no longer exist in this country, except for a few pockets of nitwits who are gathering true wealth in the shadow economy using any commodity of value in face-to-face private transactions. And a few of us nitwits know the history of Rome & every other civilization that debased their currency. Oh yes, and a few nitwits know the fallacies of Keynesian economics & grasp the lessons of von Mises. Never been a better time in American history to be a nitwit ... i.e. nitwit by mainstream standards.

I certainly understand your perspective. Applied history definitely has its place but my own economy trumps that right now. My goal is to simply amass wealth for my family and knowing "history" doesn't pay the mortgage or put food on the table. At this point in my life, I'm going to mimic what the rich and wealthy do than sit on the sidelines and read those history books. Besides, I read enough in school anyway. Time to cash in.

From my GSIII using TPR

[Guest ThePunisher]

I certainly understand your perspective. Applied history definitely has its place but my own economy trumps that right now. My goal is to simply amass wealth for my family and knowing "history" doesn't pay the mortgage or put food on the table. At this point in my life, I'm going to mimic what the rich and wealthy do than sit on the sidelines and read those history books. Besides, I read enough in school anyway. Time to cash in.

From my GSIII using TPR

Hope your investments don't turn out to be fool's gold. I'm all for wealth creation, and Obama and crew are all for wealth redistribution.
Reading up a little on socialism/communism might help you sleep a little better at night or keep you up with nightmares wondering if your personal wealth is gonna be safe in your bank or safer in your backyard. But really how safe is personal and private property rights under socialism/communism. Reading history books reminds us that history has a tendency to repeat itself. Hope you sleep well tonight.