After yesterday...Impeachment should absolutely be on the table

[Guest TankerHC]

I have been watching these blooming idiots and just a week ago it was clear, they would never Impeach Obama. They had tried over 30 times and Boehner would never let it come to the floor. Yesterday, the way I saw it, Obama officially made the jump from President with no regard for the Constitutional rule of law to Dictator. 

 

The Republican House leadership knew what he was going to do, the Conservatives knew what he was going to do and the Democrats knew what he was going to do. That's why a week ago all of them began scrambling to save their jobs, the minute he made his remarks it was all over for a bunch of them.

 

Counting I see 17 extreme left wing Democrats in the Senate who are now "middle of the road" and trying to do as much damage control as possible.

 

McCain is now a Conservative, as of yesterday. He's now talking out the side of his face.

So is Boehner. Boehner did an about face in less than an hour. 

 

 

If they bring Articles of Impeachment, and Boehner refuses to allow them to come to the House Floor for the 30 something time, then this BS "decor" needs to go out the window and Boehner needs to be removed as Speaker. 

 

The Speaker is a powerful position (Just ask Newt Gingrich) and impeachment of the President might put Biden in the Oval Office, but next in line is the Speaker and considering Gerald Ford's ACCURATE words "“An impeachable offense is whatever the majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at any given moment in its history.”

 

Were talking impeachment in the House and a trial in the Senate but were still talking about Political with the goal to throw this person out of office. 

 

I now believe when Obama officially became a dictator yesterday, that he also put almost the entirety of the Senate in a position that they no longer have an option under the Constitution but to vote and remove. 

 

Right now, and only for "right now" the Constitution is dead in the Oval Office. We have a Dictator, not a President and the House and Senate are running, lying cowards who had better step up to the plate and do the right thing. 

 

Every military person is taught the meaning of "moral courage" and "doing the hard right over the easy wrong". Our Congress needs to learn that lesson and learn it fast because they obviously have no clue what anything moral means, courage or otherwise. And instead of making the claim that "we dont want to put the American people through that", Boehners statement on Impeachment, over and over, they had better start making the hard decisions before this Dictatorship becomes permanent. 

 

Even though it will only be "temporarily permanent"

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[Guest TankerHC]

BTW, those Liberals are no longer laughing, cracking jokes and smirking are they. Just more lies. And if the House votes to "fix" the ACA today, then every one that votes for this garbage needs to go. Trying to "fix" something permanently broken isn't going to do anything, they are trying to extend this BS for a year, funny that the elections are exactly 11 months 11 days away. 

 

Message to the American people.

 

Head - Sand - Remove

[Pat]

Here's what's concerning to me. Nobody is actually doing anything about it. Not this, not any of Obama's other screw-ups, nothing. We can't even blame it entirely on those that we refer to as brain-dead; I don't see any hard conservatives marching on DC demanding Obama's impeachment over this.

 

The president of the United States, regardless of party or ideals, should be in constant fear of being thrown out, should he even attempt to make an illicit or immoral move, just as our entire government should fear us. And yet, they are not afraid at all. If somehow "we" could fix that problem by itself, most of our other problems would disappear by themselves. And yet, somehow I don't think that will ever happen, however it would...

[Guest PapaB]

While I agree that O has committed impeachable offenses by violating the Constitution, I don't see how impeaching him will do any good yet. As long as the Dem's control the Senate he won't be removed from office. After the 2014 elections I hope that changes and then he can get the boot.

 

BTW, I'm not sure that's his mouth McCain is talking out the side of. :eek:

[Guest TankerHC]

I no longer believe that is the case. Either the Dem's will do their duty and remove this Dictator, or they will be removed. If these people do not begin abiding by the Constitution and not the word of "a man". 

 

Then whatever will be, will be. 

[GuitaRx]

I hate that guy....

[Hozzie]

Won't ever happen.  Let healthcare tank on its own and move to the "next to be" crisis, immigration.  There is too close of split in the public to ever support impeachment.  All it will do is hurt Republicans more as they will look like even bigger whiners that didn't get their way. 

 

In the end, no major change would come of trying to impeach him IMO.  I am past doing what feels good if it is going to cost millions of wasted dollars to do so with no chance of actually happening.  The fact is, we will slowly but surely move to a more European type of society (more taxes, more socialized programs, and more welfare).  It may take 100 more years, but it will happen. 

Edited November 15, 2013 by Hozzie

[Guest TankerHC]

Won't ever happen.  Let healthcare tank on it's own and move to the "next to be" crisis, immigration.  There is too close of split in the public to ever support impeachment.  All it will do is hurt Republicans more as they will look like even bigger whiners that didn't get their way. 

 

In the end, no major change would come of trying to impeach him IMO.  I am past doing what feels good if it is going to cost millions of wasted dollars to do so with no chance of actually happening.  The fact is, we will slowly but surely move to a more European type of society.  It may take 100 more years, but it will happen. 

 

 

It has to happen, the ACA is not going anywhere, it will not tank on its own, the House will vote to extend something for a year that the industry has already said cannot be done. The President will FORCE them to do it, the elections will come and go, the same people will be in office afterwards and the Republic will continue to disintegrate. Once this is extended for a year, that affirms that the President can rule by decree, because he has already done it. 

It 

[Hozzie]

It has to happen, the ACA is not going anywhere, it will not tank on its own, the House will vote to extend something for a year that the industry has already said cannot be done. The President will FORCE them to do it, the elections will come and go, the same people will be in office afterwards and the Republic will continue to disintegrate. Once this is extended for a year, that affirms that the President can rule by decree, because he has already done it. 

It 

I don't disagree necessarily, but Impeachment still isn't going to happen. We can debate what the ACA tanking means (in my case all it means is that it won't support itself and it WILL move to a single payer system).   It's just a matter of time.  THat doesn't mean I like or will vote for it, but I think it will happen.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Hozzie

[E4 No More]

Personally, I think the right won't do anything because they want the entire country to learn the lesson of "Elections have consequences" that Obama declared.

[Guest TankerHC]

Personally, I think the right won't do anything because they want the entire country to learn the lesson of "Elections have consequences" that Obama declared.

Don't know about the rest of the country, or anyone else, but I'm pretty well "schooled". Don't have to show me twice.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

[E4 No More]

Don't know about the rest of the country, or anyone else, but I'm pretty well "schooled". Don't have to show me twice.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

Agreed, but the "Ruling Class" gets a might offended when you go against them.

[MacGyver]

Yesterday, the way I saw it, Obama officially made the jump from President with no regard for the Constitutional rule of law to Dictator. 

 

...

 

I now believe when Obama officially became a dictator yesterday, that he also put almost the entirety of the Senate in a position that they no longer have an option under the Constitution but to vote and remove. 

 

...

 

Right now, and only for "right now" the Constitution is dead in the Oval Office. We have a Dictator, not a President and the House and Senate are running, lying cowards who had better step up to the plate and do the right thing. 

 

I think a change in language might be useful here.  Regardless of how most non-progressives feel about him, there's still a lot of distance between Obama as the elected President of the United States and "dictator".

 

He's not torturing, imprisoning or killing political opponents.  He's not outlawing the press.  People are still free to gather.  People are still able to protest.  This current debate surrounding healthcare is a wonderful example of that.

 

He just lost a vote in the House with 39 Democrats joining the Republicans in a 261-157 vote to reject his "vision" from yesterday and act on their own. 

 

One can argue a lot about the abuses of Executive power, and frankly that doesn't rest solely in the lap of this administration.  But, we're a long way from a dictatorship.

 

I only make this point because I think language is important - and lacking in the national discourse right now. 

[Guest ThePunisher]

Holy Comrade! The one payer system just means that we're gonna be at the mercy of the government as they control our lives. If you're a good comrade, then they just might grant your medical needs.

If the commies can make it through the 2014 elections without losing big time, or even gain seats, then Obama and crew are on their way to finishing the fundamental transformation of America. Too many zombiesque people in the country to change direction of the country.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Nixon resigned, Agnew resigned and this timely action caused the Speaker of the House to get to the presidency.

 

Yesterday didn't cause Obama tio rise to the level of dictator. If he can not enforce a law, as in the case of the ACA, even though he

wants to, he can choose to not enforce other laws. Same as with Republicans holding the office. what he did yesterday is make an

absolute fool of himself and alienate a lot of Democrats. If he was going to be impeached over something, it should be over Fast and

Furious, Benghazi and that intervention on the Black Panther charge, and it should be Holder and him.

 

But I won't say he doesn't think he's a dictator.

 

Before there is a single payer system, I think they will have to make this garbage work, first. Maybe not, but it would be more palatable.

[tnguy]

He's not torturing, imprisoning or killing political opponents.  He's not outlawing the press.  People are still free to gather.  People are still able to protest.  This current debate surrounding healthcare is a wonderful example of that.

 

I'd argue that what has been going on with the IRS flies damn close to the first of those statements. The following three are not without their spots either.

 

I'm not sure with regards to impeachment. On the one hand, it will, without doubt, fail in the senate. So it's a matter of judgement as to what ends attempting it might serve. At this point, I'd almost say it was worth it but the Republicans have such a bad track record of pulling defeat from the jaws of victory.

Edited November 15, 2013 by tnguy

[MacGyver]

Nixon resigned, Agnew resigned and this timely action caused the Speaker of the House to get to the presidency.

 

Yesterday didn't cause Obama tio rise to the level of dictator. If he can not enforce a law, as in the case of the ACA, even though he

wants to, he can choose to not enforce other laws. Same as with Republicans holding the office. what he did yesterday is make an

absolute fool of himself and alienate a lot of Democrats. If he was going to be impeached over something, it should be over Fast and

Furious, Benghazi and that intervention on the Black Panther charge, and it should be Holder and him.

 

But I won't say he doesn't think he's a dictator.

 

Before there is a single payer system, I think they will have to make this garbage work, first. Maybe not, but it would be more palatable.

You could argue both sides of that last paragraph.  One would hope that the American people won't allow the government to expand a program that they've already shown themselves incompetent to run.  On the other hand, I can see the administration making the case that they can't get this right because there are so many players in the mix, and they need to nationalize to make it work. 

 

I don't think you can get to there from here, though.

 

The interesting thing about all of this is that it's nothing other than posturing.  This bill - assuming Harry Reid allows it to come up for a vote does nothing.  Obama has already said that he'll veto the Upton bill if it comes to his desk, and I don't know that either chamber has the votes to override a veto.  So, really all this bill has done is to allow 39 blue dog democrats political cover for next year by allowing them to say, "we listened to our constituents."

 

Meanwhile, this train wreck rolls on.  Nothing real has changed.  And today makes it harder to get change.  Mind you, I'm okay with that - and I'm one of the ones who gets hurt by my rates going up 250%.  Obama has misjudged.  He thought his mea culpa yesterday would make it better somehow.  Yet, his pride (and increasingly I think his pride alone) will prevent him from allowing this law to be changed until it's too late.

 

My position remains unchanged.  The DNC has never met a sure thing that they can't find a way to screw up.

[MacGyver]

I'd argue that what has been going on with the IRS flies damn close to the first of those statements. The following three are not without their spots either.

 

I'm not sure with regards to impeachment. On the one hand, it will, without doubt, fail in the senate. So it's a matter of judgement as to what ends attempting it might serve. At this point, I'd almost say it was worth it but the Republicans have such a bad track record of pulling defeat from the jaws of victory.

For the impeachment crowd, I'd argue what does it matter?  What's the fight going to get you?

 

Let's fight the battles where we can make a difference.  The GOP needs to have a unified message right now that this whole mess is but a portent of things to come if you let the government take over healthcare.  Mind you, then they have to offer a compelling plan of their own, and that's when the wheels start to come off.

[kieefer]

Col. Allen West pegs it.  :usa:

 

 

If Americans do not finally see the arrogant lawlessness of this person who no longer holds regard for the Office of the Presidency, then God help us, for He shall certainly not bless us. What more do people need to see and endure? This disgraceful era must now end.

Read more at http://allenbwest.com/2013/11/breach-oath-time-impeach/#ZJTid46fUSzewiWc.99

[tnguy]

For the impeachment crowd, I'd argue what does it matter?  What's the fight going to get you?

 

Let's fight the battles where we can make a difference.  The GOP needs to have a unified message right now that this whole mess is but a portent of things to come if you let the government take over healthcare.  Mind you, then they have to offer a compelling plan of their own, and that's when the wheels start to come off.

 

Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. Often it benefits you in ways that are hard to see coming when you do it. The Republicans have tried to "box clever" for too long and it has failed them (and the country) over and over again. Largely because they (not all of them but enough) temper their decisions with greed and thoughts of the next election and partly because they're just not smart enough to play their game.

 

Ideally, the test for initiating impeachment would be "Do we think he's done impeachable things?". Unfortunately, that doesn't fly.

 

Personally, I am still pretty outraged over Benghazi and I think it's a betrayal that that hasn't been split wide open. That Holder is still in place after Fast and Furious is just incredulous to me and implies some really serious problems with what is going on. Obamacare is almost a sideshow in comparison in my opinion.

Edited November 15, 2013 by tnguy

[Guest TankerHC]

I think a change in language might be useful here. Regardless of how most non-progressives feel about him, there's still a lot of distance between Obama as the elected President of the United States and "dictator".

He's not torturing, imprisoning or killing political opponents. He's not outlawing the press. People are still free to gather. People are still able to protest. This current debate surrounding healthcare is a wonderful example of that.

He just lost a vote in the House with 39 Democrats joining the Republicans in a 261-157 vote to reject his "vision" from yesterday and act on their own.

One can argue a lot about the abuses of Executive power, and frankly that doesn't rest solely in the lap of this administration. But, we're a long way from a dictatorship.

I only make this point because I think language is important - and lacking in the national discourse right now.

When you use dictatorial tactics, your a Dictator. When you refuse to abide by the law's of a (our) country and make your own laws on the fly. Your using dictatorial tactics. When you completely disregard our Legislative branch of Government and tell the American people you are going to do it, your being Dictatorial.

Paint that picture as rosy as you want. It is what it is.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 

[MacGyver]

When you use dictatorial tactics, your a Dictator. When you refuse to abide by the law's of a (our) country and make your own laws on the fly. Your using dictatorial tactics. When you completely disregard our Legislative branch of Government and tell the American people you are going to do it, your being Dictatorial.

Paint that picture as rosy as you want. It is what it is.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 

I added a closing brace to your post above to close your quote.

 

I fully agree that the executive branch is grabbing power in ways that our founding fathers couldn't foresee when they created coequal branches of government.  And the executive branch isn't alone.  The legislative and judicial branches have certainly availed themselves of every opportunity they could to grab power as well.  Power is attracted to power, and statists are going to state - if you will.  What else should we expect?  That's the nature of institutions that are unchecked by their constituent members.

 

But, Obama's speech yesterday wasn't that of a dictator.  I'm not a fan of the man, and I'd love to seem him leave office a frustrated man.  But, let's give the process credit where it's due.  He gave a speech yesterday outlining his particular vision of the future, and half of the legislative branch just rejected it outright.  His party is stampeding for the exits and that's a good thing.

 

He's not making laws, yet.  Even if Democrats had gone for his plan yesterday, it would have still had to have been introduced by Congress.

 

It may not be perfect.  It may not be going our way.  But the process is holding for now.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Col. Allen West pegs it. :usa:


If Americans do not finally see the arrogant lawlessness of this person who no longer holds regard for the Office of the Presidency, then God help us, for He shall certainly not bless us. What more do people need to see and endure? This disgraceful era must now end.
Read more at http://allenbwest.com/2013/11/breach-oath-time-impeach/#ZJTid46fUSzewiWc.99

Most Americans have been blind and asleep to Obama's arrogant lawlessness for five years, and I still do not believe the people have a sense of urgency to stop this man from pushing our country over the cliff. Obama keeps hitting people in the pocketbook, and they still don't care. Everybody in this country should be shouting from the top of their lungs about the direction our nation is heading, but they're still asleep while the ship is sinking. Absolutely unbelievable. Edited November 15, 2013 by ThePunisher

[Guest TankerHC]

 

I think a change in language might be useful here. Regardless of how most non-progressives feel about him, there's still a lot of distance between Obama as the elected President of the United States and "dictator".

He's not torturing, imprisoning or killing political opponents. He's not outlawing the press. People are still free to gather. People are still able to protest. This current debate surrounding healthcare is a wonderful example of that.

He just lost a vote in the House with 39 Democrats joining the Republicans in a 261-157 vote to reject his "vision" from yesterday and act on their own.

One can argue a lot about the abuses of Executive power, and frankly that doesn't rest solely in the lap of this administration. But, we're a long way from a dictatorship.

I only make this point because I think language is important - and lacking in the national discourse right now. [/quote

When you use dictatorial tactics, your a Dictator. When you refuse to abide by the law's of a (our) country and make your own laws on the fly. Your using dictatorial tactics. When you completely disregard our Legislative branch of Government and tell the American people you are going to do it, your being Dictatorial.

Paint that picture as rosy as you want. It is what it is.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

 

This is not " abuse of Executive power". We're long past that. This individual is Socializing every aspect of our society, this individual is making law as he goes along. There is no longer a respect for the rule of law, there is only you will get what we give you and we will take what we want". You're choices are being taken at light speed. You're choice equals free will. Once that is gone you're a slave to government. I don't care who defends it. I know what I am witnessing. When Bill Clinton stated at the last DNC that we need to elect this man so he can change this country completely, and they did, the electorate gave him free reign. He ran on a platform of The Fundamental Change in America. That's what we have. Fundamental, as in total.

I don't expect everyone to agree or disagree with me. At least we still have the right to think left. But if this Alynski-ite is not sent packing, we won't have to worry about that either.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 

Edited November 15, 2013 by MacGyver
added second closing [/quote] brace for clarity

[Links2k]

For the impeachment crowd, I'd argue what does it matter?  What's the fight going to get you?
 
Let's fight the battles where we can make a difference.  The GOP needs to have a unified message right now that this whole mess is but a portent of things to come if you let the government take over healthcare.  Mind you, then they have to offer a compelling plan of their own, and that's when the wheels start to come off.

Not only does the message need to be unified, it needs to be palatable. As long as the opposition to Obama offers nothing but name calling and ignorant theories the American voter will never take them seriously. The opposition must table a plan, otherwise the democrats won't be losing anything in 2014 or 2016.