Packing Heat?

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I call BS on somebody here.

I assure you that you do NOT "get a ticket" if you are charged with intent to go armed. You are arrested and booked. It is not a ticketable traffic offense.

- OS

I think there may be more to the story, but I will say that many people I deal with think/call a misdemeanor citation (arrest, release with no bond) a "ticket."

[Oh Shoot]

I think there may be more to the story, but I will say that many people I deal with think/call a misdemeanor citation (arrest, release with no bond) a "ticket."

You will have to post bail for intent to go armed.

At least in Knox County.

- OS

[Daniel]

The kid from CCA that had the "1500 1911" thread got cited and had to return later for a booking if i recall correctly.

[Oh Shoot]

The kid from CCA that had the "1500 1911" thread got cited and had to return later for a booking if i recall correctly.

Yes, you do....didn't wade through the thread, but from his blog:

"He got on the radio, sought and received permission to release me as opposed to booking me in, cited me with the Misdemeanor Crime of Going Armed, gave me my traffic cite as well, kept my 1911, TN Handgun Carry Permit, and spare magazine, returned the light and pocketknife, and sent us on our way."

Some pretty extenuating circumstances there though, since cop could verify that the kid DID have a HCP up till recently, and did indeed concede that he (the cop) thought it was probably a mistake also. Also note that the cop "received permission" to cite/release, which would indicate that this was not the normal procedure.

I think in the OP's original story of his friend:

1. I don't think a cop, however ignorant of the law, would have cited a HCP holder for going armed for having a visible gun in his car. UNLESS the guy had really pissed the cop off somehow, in which case I also don't think the cop would have let him off without taking him into custody.

2. Also, the story just doesn't ring true, as the cop supposedly was flogging him for having a "concealed" weapon. Cops always err the other way, getting all excited because the gun is NOT concealed.

So, too much in this second hand account just doesn't jibe.

and,

3. If the "friend" had NOT had a HCP in the same circumstances, it's almost certain that the cop would have taken him into custody if he were going to charge him with going armed.

Hey, any LEO's reading this?

You all arrest for going armed?

And btw, just to make it perfectly clear, *I* know *I* had to make bail when *I* was charged with this about 15 years ago. I don't know if you saw my little saga I mentioned in another thread about a week ago?

- OS

Edited September 10, 2008 by OhShoot
grammar, added emphasis

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I call BS on somebody here.

I assure you that you do NOT "get a ticket" if you are charged with intent to go armed. You are arrested and booked. It is not a ticketable traffic offense.

- OS

As a sort of side note, we also don't know that the supposed incident occurred in TN. Might not be so farfetched in other states, though I think that line of thinking would tend to reinforce your point...

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Hey, any LEO's reading this?

You all arrest for going armed?

LOL...you mean other than me?

Just so there is no confusion, there's two topics here...the facts of the story and the legal procedure.

You and I agree about the story...something's not right if it occured in TN.

However, below is the law on releasing arrestees in lieu of continued custody.

Many people call these Misdemeanor Citations a "ticket." These are an actual arrest with no bond required if the arrestee meets the criteria (eight exceptions listed in sect© ).

And sect (b)3 is not inclusive.

I've highlighted the pertinent parts in red.

I seriously doubt Knox Co is doing something different. As to your specific case, I've only been in TN since '96 and there's a good chance that Misdemeanor Citations were not used back in the early '90s.

40-7-118. Use of citations in lieu of continued custody of an arrested person. —

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) “Citation” means a written order issued by a peace officer requiring a person accused of violating the law to appear in a designated court or governmental office at a specified date and time. The order shall require the signature of the person to whom it is issued;

(2) “Magistrate” means any state judicial officer, including the judge of a municipal court, having original trial jurisdiction over misdemeanors or felonies; and

(3) (A) “Peace officer” means an officer, employee or agent of government who has a duty imposed by law to:

(i) Maintain public order;

(ii) Make arrests for offenses, whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to specific offenses; and

(iii) Investigate the commission or suspected commission of offenses; and

( “Peace officer” also includes an officer, employee or agent of government who has the duty or responsibility to enforce laws and regulations pertaining to forests in this state.

( (1) A peace officer who has arrested a person for the commission of a misdemeanor committed in the peace officer's presence, or who has taken custody of a person arrested by a private person for the commission of a misdemeanor, shall issue a citation to the arrested person to appear in court in lieu of the continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate. If the peace officer is serving an arrest warrant or capias issued by a magistrate for the commission of a misdemeanor, it is in the discretion of the issuing magistrate whether the person is to be arrested and taken into custody or arrested and issued a citation in accordance with this section in lieu of continued custody. The warrant or capias shall specify the action to be taken by the serving peace officer who shall act accordingly.

(2) (A) The provisions of this subsection ( do not apply to an arrest for the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant as prohibited by § 55-10-401, unless the offender was admitted to a hospital, or detained for medical treatment for a period of at least three (3) hours, for injuries received in a driving under the influence incident.

( The provisions of this subsection ( do not apply to any misdemeanor offense for which the provisions of § 55-10-207 or § 55-12-139 authorize a traffic citation in lieu of arrest, continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate.

(3) A peace officer may issue a citation to the arrested person to appear in court in lieu of the continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate if a person is arrested for:

(A) The offense of theft which formerly constituted shoplifting, in violation of § 39-14-103;

( Issuance of bad checks, in violation of § 39-14-121;

© Use of a revoked or suspended driver license in violation of § 55-50-504, § 55-50-601 or § 55-50-602;

(D) Assault or battery as those offenses are defined by common law, if the officer believes there is a reasonable likelihood that persons would be endangered by the arrested person if a citation were issued in lieu of continued physical custody of the defendant; or

(E) Prostitution, in violation of § 39-13-513, if the arresting party has knowledge of past conduct of the defendant in prostitution or has reasonable cause to believe that the defendant will attempt to engage in prostitution activities within a reasonable period of time if not arrested.

© No citation shall be issued under the provisions of this section if:

(1) The person arrested requires medical examination or medical care, or if the person is unable to care for the person's own safety;

(2) There is a reasonable likelihood that the offense would continue or resume, or that persons or property would be endangered by the arrested person;

(3) The person arrested cannot or will not offer satisfactory evidence of identification, including the providing of a field-administered fingerprint or thumbprint which a peace officer may require to be affixed to any citation;

(4) The prosecution of the offense for which the person was arrested, or of another offense, would thereby be jeopardized;

(5) A reasonable likelihood exists that the arrested person will fail to appear in court;

(6) The person demands to be taken immediately before a magistrate or refuses to sign the citation;

(7) The person arrested is so intoxicated that the person could be a danger to the person's own self or to others; or

(8) There are one (1) or more outstanding arrest warrants for the person.

(d) In issuing a citation, the officer shall:

(1) Prepare a written order which shall include the name and address of the cited person, the offense charged and the time and place of appearance;

(2) Have the offender sign the original and duplicate copy of the citation. The officer shall deliver one (1) copy to the offender and retain the other; and

(3) Release the cited person from custody.

(e) By accepting the citation, the defendant agrees to appear at the arresting law enforcement agency prior to trial to be booked and processed. Failure to so appear is a Class A misdemeanor.

(f) If the person cited fails to appear in court on the date and time specified or fails to appear for booking and processing prior to the person's court date, the court shall issue a bench warrant for the person's arrest.

(g) Whenever a citation has been prepared, delivered and filed with a court as provided in this section, a duplicate copy of the citation constitutes a complaint to which the defendant shall answer. The duplicate copy shall be sworn to by the issuing officer before any person authorized by law to administer oaths.

(h) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect a peace officer's authority to conduct a lawful search even though the citation is issued after arrest.

(i) Any person who intentionally, knowingly or willfully fails to appear in court on the date and time specified on the citation or who knowingly gives a false or assumed name or address commits a Class A misdemeanor, regardless of the disposition of the charge for which the person was originally arrested. Proof that the defendant failed to appear when required constitutes prima facie evidence that the failure to appear is willful.

(j) Whenever an officer makes a physical arrest for a misdemeanor and the officer determines that a citation cannot be issued because of one (1) of the eight (8) reasons enumerated in subsection ©, the officer shall note the reason for not issuing a citation on the arrest ticket. An officer who, on the basis of facts reasonably known or reasonably believed to exist, determines that a citation cannot be issued because of one (1) of the eight (8) reasons enumerated in subsection © shall not be subject to civil or criminal liability for false arrest, false imprisonment or unlawful detention.

(k) (1) Each citation issued pursuant to this section shall have printed on it in large, conspicuous block letters the following:

NOTICE: FAILURE TO APPEAR IN COURT ON THE DATE ASSIGNED BY THIS CITATION OR AT THE APPROPRIATE POLICE STATION FOR BOOKING AND PROCESSING WILL RESULT IN YOUR ARREST FOR A SEPARATE CRIMINAL OFFENSE WHICH IS PUNISHABLE BY A JAIL SENTENCE OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS AND TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS AND/OR A FINE OF UP TO TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500).

(2) Each person receiving a citation under this section shall sign this citation indicating the knowledge of the notice listed in subdivision (k)(1). The signature of each person creates a presumption of knowledge of the notice and a presumption of intent to violate this section if the person should not appear as required by the citation.

(3) Whenever there are changes in the citation form notice required by this subsection (k), a law enforcement agency may exhaust its existing supply of citation forms before implementing the new citation forms.

(l) The provisions of this section shall govern all aspects of the issuance of citations in lieu of the continued custody of an arrested person, notwithstanding any provision of Rule 3.5 of the Tennessee Rules of Criminal Procedure to the contrary.

(m) In cases in which:

(1) The public will not be endangered by the continued freedom of the suspected misdemeanant;

(2) The law enforcement officer has reasonable proof of the identity of the suspected misdemeanant; and

(3) There is no reason to believe the suspected misdemeanant will not appear as required by law;

the general assembly finds that the issuance of a citation in lieu of arrest of the suspected misdemeanant will result in cost savings and increased public safety by allowing the use of jail space for dangerous individuals and/or felons and by keeping officers on patrol. Accordingly, the general assembly encourages all law enforcement agencies to so utilize misdemeanor citations and to encourage their personnel to use those citations when reasonable and according to law.

[Acts 1981, ch. 500, §§ 1, 2; T.C.A., § 40-827; Acts 1983, ch. 200, § 1; 1984, ch. 553, §§ 1, 2; 1985, ch. 320, §§ 1-8, 10, 11; 1988, ch. 932, § 1; 1989, ch. 591, § 113; 1991, ch. 16, § 1; 1993, ch. 241, §§ 68-70; 1996, ch. 644, § 1; 2002, ch. 619, § 1.]

Edited September 10, 2008 by Todd@CIS

[Guest WTNGunowner]

Hey don't get bent all out of shape this was just the guy's reasoning for not getting his permit. It didn't make any sense to me either. He told me if he was going to have to go through that hassle if he was pulled over then he didn't even want a permit. I assured him that it was an unlikely story, but he kept telling me that it was true. I have no idea and don't know who the supposed individual was. It's just a rumor as I know it. No facts. I think some people hear these types of stories and it may deter them from getting a HCP, they don't want to get hassled if they happened to get pulled over.

[Oh Shoot]

LOL...you mean other than me?

I forgot you were LEO. I haven't been on board long enough to remember who's who; also doesn't help that I've never actually personally MET anyone here, but hope to change that

Just so there is no confusion, there's two topics here...the facts of the story and the legal procedure.

You and I agree about the story...something's not right if it occured in TN.

Well, thanks for posting the legal statute....I see then that it is possible with no extenuating circumstances for a going armed charge to be handled with citation, and I admit that I was arguing against that.

I seriously doubt Knox Co is doing something different. As to your specific case, I've only been in TN since '96 and there's a good chance that Misdemeanor Citations were not used back in the early '90s.

Yeah, I don't know.

Also, there were some other oddities with my whole situation, but I won't bore you with them here.

thanks for the input,

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Hey don't get bent all out of shape this was just the guy's reasoning ....

No worries mate...I guess I was so involved because of personal involvement with similar years ago; and even then, I should have looked up the LAW rather than base opinion on what happened to ME at the time.

- OS