Employee no carry in Gander Mountain?

[Guest TankerHC]

That post I made about the incident with my cousin in Georgia defending himself while manager on duty at a Circle K and getting fired, came up on Cam and Company, NRA Radio last night. (The incident not the post), and I didnt catch the comment from a caller but he called in and apparently stated that he worked at Gander Mountain and GM's policy is that employees are not allowed to carry. Cam said he was waiting on a response from Gander Mountain, I never heard a response, didnt have time to listen to the whole show. But I know there are a couple of Gander employees here, so are employees banned from carrying? I'm just curious myself.

 

If you didnt catch the post I made, my cousin holds a carry permit. Here's the whole story.

 

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/circle-k-employee-stops-robbery-keeps-life-loses-job_112013

 

And here is the story of the clerk in his store murdered which is why he carried in the store.

 

 

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/15541155/local-family-hopes

[10-Ring]

I would be shocked to find ANY company that is not a mom and pop that allows employees to carry.  It's simply too much liability because if the employee uses the weapon on store premises they are acting as an agent of the company, which easily opens them up to lawsuits.  I've even worked for companies that allowed carry in their stores yet expressly prohibited employees from doing the same whether on or off of the clock.  I'm about as far from a gun control supporter as you will find but if it were my call as the head of a large company I would find that it would be a poor business decision to tell a bunch of $8/hr an hour employees that it is okay for them to carry guns while at work.  On the flip side of that coin I believe that in the setting of a large company, big box store, etc.  The safety of the employees becomes the responsibility of the company at the point when the employee has been told that they are not allowed to protect themselves.  

[Guest Keal G Seo]

I'd have to agree with 10 Ring here. I'll even take it a step further and say that jobs that have a high chance of bodily harm from someone breaking the law (ie convenience store and robbery) should be required by law to protect that employee if they don't allow the employee to protect themselves.

[Guest TankerHC]

I would be shocked to find ANY company that is not a mom and pop that allows employees to carry.  It's simply too much liability because if the employee uses the weapon on store premises they are acting as an agent of the company, which easily opens them up to lawsuits.  I've even worked for companies that allowed carry in their stores yet expressly prohibited employees from doing the same whether on or off of the clock.  I'm about as far from a gun control supporter as you will find but if it were my call as the head of a large company I would find that it would be a poor business decision to tell a bunch of $8/hr an hour employees that it is okay for them to carry guns while at work.  On the flip side of that coin I believe that in the setting of a large company, big box store, etc.  The safety of the employees becomes the responsibility of the company at the point when the employee has been told that they are not allowed to protect themselves.  

 

All I can say is, knowing what you post, reading MANY of your previous posts I find it hard to believe that you actually believe what you wrote. So I am going to address it.

 

First, I dont care how much money anyone makes. It matters not one iota to me if they make 2 bucks and hour plus tips or they make a billion per year. They all have the right to self defense, and if they choose to carry, that should be their choice.

 

Secondly, the responsibility for my or anyone else's defense is no one's responsibility but their own. Considering the "Companies responsibility" for your safety goes way beyond even considering calling 911 after the act, being kept safe. The Police in most cases are there to write the reports and do the investigations, companies are not there at all. I was GM for a very large Company, two in fact. And one of those Companies required that our guys go into some seriously bad areas. They were mugged, shot at on two occasions, beaten up and we abided by the no carry rule, but when our guys started getting beat up and robbed I told them straight up. "If it isn't safe, don't give service, don't even go there". The Company policy eventually changed, to bring service we had to pull another guy off another job to stand by and let the police know we were going there (they and we co-operated) and they would drive up and wait.

 

I have sat in business meetings in Sacramento, Philadelphia and New York with people worth Billions of Dollars, and there were many I wouldn't trust with a fricken rubber band gun.

 

Financial status has nothing to do with the ability to own and handle a firearm. And definitely has nothing to do with self defense. And businesses, regardless of their policies, will always ALWAYS go for the profits over your life.

 

That first link above, that's a relative of mine, today he is unemployed, but hes still above ground. He is also married and has kids. I dont think they would have appreciated him being sent away in a body bag to save his job or Company profits. Fortunately for him, although he is (Or was) a Convenience Store Asst. Manager, who by no means makes a ton of money, he was smart enough working in a store where someone had already been murdered, to carry, otherwise he wouldnt have even made the news, some of my family members would just be attending a Funeral.

 

I'm sure the other 8 dollar an hour employees in that store feel the same way. 

Edited November 11, 2013 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

I'd have to agree with 10 Ring here. I'll even take it a step further and say that jobs that have a high chance of bodily harm from someone breaking the law (ie convenience store and robbery) should be required by law to protect that employee if they don't allow the employee to protect themselves.

 

 

Again, no one should be required to protect you but yourself. And anyone who feels protected because they sign a contract and their company says they are protected, or we will post a guard, or we will work with the Police, is not very bright. Bottom line, no one is responsible for your self defense and protection other than you. 

[MacGyver]

Most of the major insurance carriers have exclusions that essentially require their insureds to prohibit weapons if they want to remain insured.  I expect you can get away with it when you're a smaller company, but when you get big enough that they actually start auditing your practices, it's going to come up.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Again, no one should be required to protect you but yourself. And anyone who feels protected because they sign a contract and their company says they are protected, or we will post a guard, or we will work with the Police, is not very bright. Bottom line, no one is responsible for your self defense and protection other than you. 

So it should be required that if they don't allow a person to defend themselves that they be encased in bullet proof glass as many banks and even some convenience stores in bad areas already are.

I don't know of a single national chain of any type of business (other than security types) that don't prohibit employees from carrying weapons. I mean good on him for not being a victim but at the same time they knew the risks of the job and should have known the company policy on firearms. If I were him I would apply to some smaller stores and put it on resume along with a note to the extent of "I double as security" :)

[tnguy]

On the one hand, they are saying their goods and register money aren't worth the liability. Which is fine.

On the other hand, they are also saying that the employees lives aren't worth the liability. Which is not.

I do understand the insurance requirements. I don't like them though.

[Wyldk2]

Wal-mart has a "No weapons" policy and would not allow anyone to carry on the clock. Now the whole time I was there i had a gun, sometimes 3 at the most in my vehicle. I just couldn't carry it with me while working. ( which i probably wouldnt want to, since it would get in the way and i really didn't need it while working). Now the drive back home, I was no way going to be without a weapon of any kind. Since the drive usually ended up with me getting home around 2 a.m. ( usually sooner).

 

I never told them i had a weapon while working there but i assume maybe 25% of the workforce there didn't tell anyone either.

 

Liability is the biggest issue. Nobody wants to be sued. And a partial reason for not wanting their employees to carry is the possibility of scaring away the customers whoeither are afraid of being around guns or have the mindset that if you don't have a badge, you're the bad guy if you carry a gun.

[Guest TankerHC]

So it should be required that if they don't allow a person to defend themselves that they be encased in bullet proof glass as many banks and even some convenience stores in bad areas already are.

I don't know of a single national chain of any type of business (other than security types) that don't prohibit employees from carrying weapons. I mean good on him for not being a victim but at the same time they knew the risks of the job and should have known the company policy on firearms. If I were him I would apply to some smaller stores and put it on resume along with a note to the extent of "I double as security" :)

 

I can mention right now two business that are both the largest Companies in their field, and neither has no carry or no guns in their contracts and nothing posted anywhere. I wont say who they are, because it might draw unwanted attention. But there are gun friendly companies especilly if their employees are reguired to go into bad areas.

 

But I will say this, I agree completely. If you got a job in an area that was well known as a thug area and someone had already been murdered in this place of business, would you carry if they told you not to? I know my answer. 

[tnguy]

Do the "Good Samaritan" laws not cover this? If not, they probably should.

 

 

But I will say this, I agree completely. If you got a job in an area that was well known as a thug area and someone had already been murdered in this place of business, would you carry if they told you not to? I know my answer.

 

Indeed. I don't think there's any company will keep you on the payroll if you're dead.

Edited November 11, 2013 by tnguy

[chances R]

Hiring someone to work is a lot different from hiring someone to work and let them carry a gun.  Especially if the qualifications is a simple HCP class.  I can only imagine the worse case situations where an employ, trying to defend company property (which is insured) shoots two or three customers. It is not a simple situation when dealing with the public in a retail situation such as GM.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

I can mention right now two business that are both the largest Companies in their field, and neither has no carry or no guns in their contracts and nothing posted anywhere. I wont say who they are, because it might draw unwanted attention. But there are gun friendly companies especilly if their employees are reguired to go into bad areas.

 

But I will say this, I agree completely. If you got a job in an area that was well known as a thug area and someone had already been murdered in this place of business, would you carry if they told you not to? I know my answer. 

Oh I absolutely would and have for several big chains that don't allow it. Even got caught by my manager at one of them but that was the day I found out he was a gun guy and carried himself. But I knew the consequences of doing so if I had to use it or got caught by someone that was a by the book type. I am all for him and hope him the best in the days to come.

[tnguy]

Perhaps a half-decent compromise would be to allow (or rather, not disallow) carry but to actually draw it under any circumstance be a dismissable offense. At least then if you decide it's worth the price, you'd actually have it with you.

 

A better solution would be for companies to provide training and certification for employees who wished to carry. Of course, the HCP is pretty much this already. But this could be to the insurance company's standards.

 

Best solution? Probably 2A. But I'm trying to stay in the realms of the realistic.

Edited November 11, 2013 by tnguy

[bersaguy]

I lost two good friends at a  Restaurant after closing one night on White Bridge Road in Nashville about 5 years ago. Both of them had HCP's but company policy would not allow them to carry while working even though one of the was restaurant manager. They were killed by 3 ex employees that knew how the store operated and knew that no one would be armed. Even after getting the money the two employees were killed execution style. The restaurant chain did nothing to help the family of either one of them except say they were sorry for their loss. The families had to sue the restaurant chain for wrongful death cases and they finally won the cases and the company had to pay some serious money out. They still do not allow their employees to carry if they have a permit. I just wish Chris would have went against store policy and after closing the front doors went and got his gun out of his car to finish locking up.    

[GuitaRx]

I lost two good friends at a  Restaurant after closing one night on White Bridge Road in Nashville about 5 years ago. Both of them had HCP's but company policy would not allow them to carry while working even though one of the was restaurant manager. They were killed by 3 ex employees that knew how the store operated and knew that no one would be armed. Even after getting the money the two employees were killed execution style. The restaurant chain did nothing to help the family of either one of them except say they were sorry for their loss. The families had to sue the restaurant chain for wrongful death cases and they finally won the cases and the company had to pay some serious money out. They still do not allow their employees to carry if they have a permit. I just wish Chris would have went against store policy and after closing the front doors went and got his gun out of his car to finish locking up.    

 

The Store manager Chris was gonna be my future son in-law..

[10-Ring]

All I can say is, knowing what you post, reading MANY of your previous posts I find it hard to believe that you actually believe what you wrote. So I am going to address it.

 

First, I dont care how much money anyone makes. It matters not one iota to me if they make 2 bucks and hour plus tips or they make a billion per year. They all have the right to self defense, and if they choose to carry, that should be their choice.

 

Secondly, the responsibility for my or anyone else's defense is no one's responsibility but their own. Considering the "Companies responsibility" for your safety goes way beyond even considering calling 911 after the act, being kept safe. The Police in most cases are there to write the reports and do the investigations, companies are not there at all. I was GM for a very large Company, two in fact. And one of those Companies required that our guys go into some seriously bad areas. They were mugged, shot at on two occasions, beaten up and we abided by the no carry rule, but when our guys started getting beat up and robbed I told them straight up. "If it isn't safe, don't give service, don't even go there". The Company policy eventually changed, to bring service we had to pull another guy off another job to stand by and let the police know we were going there (they and we co-operated) and they would drive up and wait.

 

I have sat in business meetings in Sacramento, Philadelphia and New York with people worth Billions of Dollars, and there were many I wouldn't trust with a fricken rubber band gun.

 

Financial status has nothing to do with the ability to own and handle a firearm. And definitely has nothing to do with self defense. And businesses, regardless of their policies, will always ALWAYS go for the profits over your life.

 

That first link above, that's a relative of mine, today he is unemployed, but hes still above ground. He is also married and has kids. I dont think they would have appreciated him being sent away in a body bag to save his job or Company profits. Fortunately for him, although he is (Or was) a Convenience Store Asst. Manager, who by no means makes a ton of money, he was smart enough working in a store where someone had already been murdered, to carry, otherwise he wouldnt have even made the news, some of my family members would just be attending a Funeral.

 

I'm sure the other 8 dollar an hour employees in that store feel the same way. 

Perhaps too many years in retail left me jaded.  True, a persons financial status does not dictate their responsibility with a firearm.  Your run of the mill retail employee these days has a body temperature close to 98.6F and breathes, that is about as much function as you get out of most of these people.  I can understand why these policies are in place, I will stand by that.  I've also had jobs in the past where I carried, though I was forbidden because I felt that it was necessary and my $8 an hour job was not worth my life.  Basically I see both sides of the argument.  I would have done the same thing your cousin did, I don't blame him one bit.

[Dane]

I wonder if there has ever been a law proposed that would release a company's lability if a person was legally armed (ie HCP)? And if it would stand up in court.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Garufa]

I wonder if there has ever been a law proposed that would release a company's lability if a person was legally armed (ie HCP)? And if it would stand up in court.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

By who?  Republicans  :rofl:  or Democrats  :rofl: ?

[bersaguy]

The Store manager Chris was gonna be my future son in-law..

 

The Store manager Chris was gonna be my future son in-law..

Chris was a great guy for sure. Chris and I fished bass tournaments together and we were suppose to fish that Sunday but he didn't make it and I got a call from another friend that told me he had been killed. I am so glad they caught all of them involved in that and they are all doing serious time in the Graybar motel. All the folks at the bass tournament that Sunday had a minute of Silence in his remembrance as he was liked by everyone at the tournament trail.  I am sorry for your daughters loss and your loss for not being able to have him as a son in law.

[musicman]

Wow, Bersaguy and GuitarX. My wife and I, and our college buddies used to eat there a LOT because we went to church near there. It was our "spot." We were very sad to learn of those events and prayed for the families of those lost over the next few months. We never knew the chain treated their families so poorly. We rarely get to that side of town now that we live in Smyrna, but any time we pass there, we remember the event.

It seems pointless and petty coming from a nobody like me, but if either of you have any contact with the families any more, please let them know that others in Nashville have been praying for them.

[GuitaRx]

Chris was a great guy for sure. Chris and I fished bass tournaments together and we were suppose to fish that Sunday but he didn't make it and I got a call from another friend that told me he had been killed. I am so glad they caught all of them involved in that and they are all doing serious time in the Graybar motel. All the folks at the bass tournament that Sunday had a minute of Silence in his remembrance as he was liked by everyone at the tournament trail.  I am sorry for your daughters loss and your loss for not being able to have him as a son in law.

 

Thanks, yea we loved him a lot.. it was weird that my daughter was waiting for him to get home that night, they were going to buy the wedding rings online. She had just talked to him about 30 mins before the shooting. She called us and we sped down to the crime scene. it was awful. she hasn't been the same since then. She had to deal with selling the new bass boat they had just bought.. He didn't even get the chance to take possession of it. She did finally meet someone and got married about a year ago.

 

Sorry about hijacking the thread.. It's amazing how small the world really is...

[Chucktshoes]

I've said it before and I think it is appropriate for this thread. Concealed means concealed. I can get a new job, my family can't get a new me.

[joustin]

When I worked there we were not allowed to carry. Several guys carried loaded 1911 mags though, damn near every case had a 1911 clone in it.

[dlmeadows]

This is why Im so happy the company I work for looks at you funny if youre not carrying. You just never know when you may need it