Inexpensive SHTF Rifle Suggestions

[DaveTN]

I own many rifles, bolts 5.56/308/30-06, AR’s .22/5.56/7.62, Garand, M1 Carbine, etc. They all have a purpose I guess that’s why we collect them. But if I had to pick one rifle for general duty in a SHTF scenario; it would be my DPMS 308 Panther, 308 20 round mags, long range, short range, single shot, spray and pray, iron sights, optics; it does it all. Now once you start talking about more specific tasks I might have to change weapons.

DISCLAIMER: Carrying ammo won’t be an issue for me, nor will running around in rough terrain.

[gregintenn]

Sounds like you are describing an SKS to me.

[DaveTN]

Honestly... I would love an Ishapore... it is perfect for what I need in every way. Problem is... I can't find one.

Sent you a link in a PM.

[Guest kylexander]

Sounds like you are describing an SKS to me.

I definitely do not feel like I am describing an SKS. Every SKS I ever owned was problematic. It was totally normal for me to have to place the buttend of the rifle on the ground and stomp the charging handle to extract the brass in both my Yugo's. My Chinese was not so severe, but I still rarely made it through 10 rounds without a failure. Needless to say, I retired all three. One is a parts gun having had a case explode in the chamber and weld itself within. I'll stick to AKs and Mini-30s when it comes to x39...

[1gewehr]

With a $300 budget, you are pretty limited.  The SKS is probably your best bet.  Don't get hung up on magazine capacity.  If you need more than 10 rounds quickly in SHTF, you have done something really wrong.  I would be a lot more afraid of the fellow with a bolt-action rfle who can actually hit targets at 400 yards than the guy with an AR-15 who has never fired past 100 yards in his life.

 

I would ignore any pistol-caliber choices.  Too limited in power and range.  You can always get a sub-caliber adapter for more powerful guns if you want to shoot a bunny or squirrel without blowing it apart.  Chamber inserts are available to use .32acp in any .308, .30-06, 7.62x39, or most other .30 caliber cartridges.  You will be amazed at how quiet a .32acp is when fired from a rifle barrel.

 

Don't discount the Mauser.  For your $300, you can find several choices in 8mm, and maybe even an FR-8 or Israeli K98 in .308.

And don't discount the Mosin-Nagant!  For $300, you can get an excellent M91/30 as well as a bunch of stripper clips and ammo. 

 

That's my $.02, worth exactly what you paid for it!

[Guest kylexander]

I definitely do not discount my Mauser (M24/47). I have 1000 rounds of 8mm ammo made for the Yugo M76 in a wooden crate sitting right next to it. All my surplus guns use foreign rounds though... hence my wanting a gun I can butcher for my purposes in a round that I can find easily, domestically. I would definitely take my Mauser over my Nagant any day. The only American rifle I own anymore is a 10/22. Not because I don't like American guns, but because I am a big fan of battle proven rifles that don't cost an arm and a leg. I also just love bolt actions. That I just chalk up to personal preference.

[East_TN_Patriot]

MVP are available in .300blk and .308 now or soon.

If all you need is deer sized game at 100yards and defense, id say a 30/30 lever action is perfect. Same ballistics as AK with better bullets and quicker action than a bolt

This is in my plans for a future purchase, but it is my impression that this rifle has not hit the market yet, even though it was announced some time ago.  In fact, when I looked at Mossberg's online catalog a couple of weeks ago, it wasn't even listed.  So, I'm not sure what the scoop is on that.  If they ever do hit the market, I think that is the ultimate SHTF rifle chambered in .308/7.62 NATO.  Compact, plenty of power, and a removable box mag that is not proprietary as far as I am aware.  For a SHTF rifle, I personally would avoid a .300BLK because it is no where near as common as .308/7.62 NATO.  If the world went all to poo, .308/7.62 NATO is going to be much easier to find because of it's common use as a hunting round, police sniper round, and military round.  It will be easier to reload if needed since you don't need to rework brass to load it.  Barring that hitting the market at a reasonable price-point, I have been considering picking up a simple .308 hunting rifle.  The .223/5.56 version is quite sufficient unless you plan to hunt large game with it.

Another excellent option would be an SKS in 7.62x39 in its original configuration.  Simple, rugged, made to work in crappy conditions, cleaning tools on board, easy to break down, and 10 rounds of ammo on board.  Unless you expect to be engaged in an extensive firefight (very unlikely) then 10 rounds and some extras on stripper clips is more than sufficient for anyone's needs.  It would also keep you from unwisely ripping through 30 rounds, which is not wise in a SHTF situation.  I have owned several and have never experienced the problems you reported.  I will pick up another one of these in the future. 

I would avoid older military bolt action rifles because parts are likely to be very difficult to find in a prolonged break-down of civil society.  The Spanish Mauser is a cool little rifle, but the rifles, much less the parts, are tough to find (trust me), and for the price of one of those, you could get a nice modern bolt action hunting rifle.  

As far as lever action rifles in handgun calibers, I personally don't see the point of carrying a rifle unless it's in a rifle caliber.  The whole point of the rifle is to give you the extra distance and power that the handgun won't give you.  Why compromise on the cartridge if you are going to sacrifice mobility with the weight and size of a rifle?

Edited November 10, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[Djay3]

For budgetary reasons something in a 7.62x39 might be a good place to start. It's too bad you had bad luck with your two previous SKS's; maybe the law of averages means the third time would be the charm.

A big part of the budget issue with anything in .308 is the cost of practice ammo. It's amazing how the upfront cost of the rifle dwindles after factoring in the ammo costs to keep feeding it.

Places like J&G Sales often have bolt options in 7.62x39 such as the Zastava mini-mauser for around $549 or so. But the mag only holds 5 rounds and I don't know about ease of parts availability.

Please let us know what you wind up going with. Good luck! Edited November 10, 2013 by Djay3

[Wingshooter]

I'd look for a used Savage 10 or Stevens 200 for that role. They're easy to work on, you can swap a barrel (or caliber) yourself, there are tons of aftermarket parts (including detachable box magazine), and they are typically very accurate. Stevens 200 in .308 or 7.62x39 maybe??



Here's a LA Savage 110 in 30-06 for $250, so they can be had for a good price. However, this particular one looks like it already hit the fan a time or two :) http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=374848957 Edited November 10, 2013 by Batman

[gregintenn]

I definitely do not feel like I am describing an SKS. Every SKS I ever owned was problematic. It was totally normal for me to have to place the buttend of the rifle on the ground and stomp the charging handle to extract the brass in both my Yugo's. My Chinese was not so severe, but I still rarely made it through 10 rounds without a failure. Needless to say, I retired all three. One is a parts gun having had a case explode in the chamber and weld itself within. I'll stick to AKs and Mini-30s when it comes to x39...

Wow! I've never heard of anyone else having such problems. The only one I've ever had I still have. It is a Norinco, and has been boringly reliable for nearly 30 years now. It is also very accurate with the old surplus ammo.

 

If I had to grab a rifle to defend hearth and home, I would be as comfortable with my SKS and bandolier filled with stripper clips as any rifle I own. It is built way better, in my opinion, than my AK.

Edited November 10, 2013 by gregintenn

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ]

Survival kit in odd package

 

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=72375

 

I found this a few months ago.

[Handsome Rob]

I'm going to throw another vote for .30-30 Either a Marlin for ease of stripping & working or Winchester 94 if weight is a consideration.

If there's a more commonly available non-military cartridge than the ol' .30WCF (.22 aside) I can't imagine what it might be. Every gun store, supermarket, gas station, farm supply place, country store & hell, probably pet shop sells it. It's cheap, reliable, you can cram 8 of 'em in either rifle & honestly, if you're shooting at something that needs more than that, it's time to beat feet to the rear anyway!

Short, accurate, light, dependable & been in use in the US since God was a boy. Every country home either has, had or should have at least one.

 

My only other grab-to-go guns are my Henry .22 & my much loved, heavily modified .303 Enfield (For which I buy & reload ammunition at every turn & have never yet paid more than $14 a box)

[Wingshooter]

I'm going to throw another vote for .30-30 Either a Marlin for ease of stripping & working or Winchester 94 if weight is a consideration.
If there's a more commonly available non-military cartridge than the ol' .30WCF (.22 aside) I can't imagine what it might be. Every gun store, supermarket, gas station, farm supply place, country store & hell, probably pet shop sells it. It's cheap, reliable, you can cram 8 of 'em in either rifle & honestly, if you're shooting at something that needs more than that, it's time to beat feet to the rear anyway!
Short, accurate, light, dependable & been in use in the US since God was a boy. Every country home either has, had or should have at least one.
 
My only other grab-to-go guns are my Henry .22 & my much loved, heavily modified .303 Enfield (For which I buy & reload ammunition at every turn & have never yet paid more than $14 a box)

Win94 30-30 is what rides with me in my truck

[whitewolf001]

PTR91, get a battle rifle and hunting rifle, mags are very inexpensive and you get a system that is 100% proven, all for the same price of a quality entry level AR.($999)

[dcloudy777]

In the near-$300 range, a used Marlin 94 .30-30 is going to be your best bet.  I have a 16" 94 with a peep sight, and it's an excellent "GP" gun.

 

However, you can put together a pretty decent AR for about 6 bills these days, and there isn't a better choice for what you're looking for a rifle to do. 

Edited November 11, 2013 by dcloudy777

[Guest kylexander]

Where is the idea of good lever actions in 30-30 for around 300$ coming from? I do know this was the case several years ago, but after looking around town and checking online, 700$ seems to be the base for even a used lever action. I did manage to find a Rossi in 30-30 for about 650$ at Wal Mart. I have not seen a single example of a lever action in any caliber below 400$. The ones between 400-600$ tend to be 22lr.

 

Now, I was thinking a bit differently about this last night. I could buy a cheap Mosin with a shiny bore, do a little light work on the bolt and chop the barrel to 16", and throw it in one of those new Archangel stocks with the detachable mags. Boom! Cheap shooter and reliable and accurate enough to serve as a 100-200M scout rifle. The only part I haven't worked out is putting a front sight at that point of the barrel contour. Any ideas?

 

The Mosin idea has me all in for about 400$ for a war proven design, using a cheap round in detachable mags, in a compact and rugged package.

Edited November 11, 2013 by kylexander

[Handsome Rob]

I honestly don't know where you're finding any .30-30 leverguns for more than $350!
Gunbroker, GOC, Armslist etc.... There are literally hundreds of Marlin 336s & Winchester 94s to be had around $300-350.
Every pawn shop here in Tullahoma had at least 2. Tollivers in Manchester had 7 Marlins last time I was in there.

[Handsome Rob]

For that price range, you could also do a Lee Enfield tanker or jungle carbine.....

[dcloudy777]

Used .30-30s for under $400 are plentiful, I found mine about this time last year on GOC.

 

Purely for the sake of discussion, what's your rationale behind the detachable mag requirement?

[whitewolf001]

Where is the idea of good lever actions in 30-30 for around 300$ coming from? I do know this was the case several years ago, but after looking around town and checking online, 700$ seems to be the base for even a used lever action. I did manage to find a Rossi in 30-30 for about 650$ at Wal Mart. I have not seen a single example of a lever action in any caliber below 400$. The ones between 400-600$ tend to be 22lr.

 

I got my mdl94 about three years ago for $200 OTD from a pawnshop.

 

Now, I was thinking a bit differently about this last night. I could buy a cheap Mosin with a shiny bore, do a little light work on the bolt and chop the barrel to 16", and throw it in one of those new Archangel stocks with the detachable mags. Boom! Cheap shooter and reliable and accurate enough to serve as a 100-200M scout rifle. The only part I haven't worked out is putting a front sight at that point of the barrel contour. Any ideas?

 

The Mosin idea has me all in for about 400$ for a war proven design, using a cheap round in detachable mags, in a compact and rugged package.

 

Yes and no... the proven war design is the original platform with internal magazine. Without extensive testing, the reliability(longterm and durability) of those mags are unknown. I would stick with the original setup and get stripper clips or save up for a more combat effecient design.

[jcluff]

http://www.firearmsforsale.com/century-inter-arms-inc/firearms/rifles/cent-pap-308win-10rd-thumbhole/

308 AK for under 600. I am not sure what your budget is, but this seems to fit yor requirements. Proven design, running a military supported caliber.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[trevorst]

Cheap used AR, spend extra as it allows on extra bcg and other parts.


Rounds readily available, accurate, light, and a proven effective round against enemy combatants.

[McGarrett]

With a limited budget to work with I'd probably lean towards a lever action rifle coupled with a revolver with both of them chambered in the same caliber.

.308 isn't exactly cheap anymore, so the cost savings you'd get with a less expensive ammunition & by having zero extra magazines needed by going with say a lever action rifle chambered in .38spl/.357mag the savings would/could/should essentially pay for a good used revolver.

 

You might want to consider the Kel Tec Sub 2000 in 40 cal Glock magazines. It's already small, lightweight, short barreled and has the added benefit of interchangeable magazines with Glock 40 cal handguns. It retails for less than $400 when you can find it.  I don't know if the 40 caliber has enough stopping power for 100 yards. Someone else will have to comment. If you go to www.theKTOG.org website, you'll find ways to add a scope to the Sub 2000 and retain it's folding ability.  Folded, it can be carried in a backpack or a very large laptop bag.

I have both of these combinations. I liked the idea of the long gun/ handgun SHTF combo in the same caliber. For the less than 200 yard range I don't really see the need for .308 unless reaching out further distances. The handgun rounds will surprise you coming out of a longer barrel especially the .357mag.

 

.38/ .357- Marlin 1894C & Ruger GP100 DAO 4" stainless old Canadian Mounted Police service revolver

 

.40- Glock 22 & Keltec Sub2000 with plenty of 15rd mags & happy sticks

 

Other ideas are the Marlin Camp 45 or 9 and Ruger PC9 or 40 and their companion pistols.

 

Nothing wrong with 30-30, I would think ammo would be fairly common but it is not cheap. I have seen a few 30-30's for around $300 give or take. I paid $200 for my Marlin 336 30-30 but that was 15 years ago. Granted the .357 levergun is not as common and will cost a little more. Seems like you could find something in your budget range easy enough.

Edited November 12, 2013 by McGarrett

[Guest kylexander]

The rationale behind the detachable mag allows quick reloading with the ability to keep a receiver mounted optic. I am aware that I can use long eye releif optics, but I have no experience with them and they are pricey.

 

I would agree that the archangel design is not battle tested, so you are right on the idea that the feeding could be problematic, but without the ability to load quickly with low powered receiver mounted optics barring a detachable mag, you run into problems another problem. I see two ways of doing it. Stripper clips and long eye releif optics or no optics, which isn't a bad thing way to go, or detachable mags and no bar on any type of optics. The mags would also allow for a great compliment, so less reloading... not that you should need to reload too often or need more than 5 rounds if you know what you are doing. They key word their is "should," though.

 

I would think a synthetic stock would reduce some weight. Getting detachable mags along with a polymer stock kills two birds with one stone in my mind. Polymer mags also make less noise than stippers in a bandolier or satchel.

 

The rationale behind .308 is that it is a good all around caliber with the added range when you need it, and also probably easier to scanvenge than 30-30. Now I am looking at using a Mosin as my base rifle, so ammo availabilty is kind of out the window.

[McGarrett]

The rationale behind the detachable mag allows quick reloading with the ability to keep a receiver mounted optic. I am aware that I can use long eye releif optics, but I have no experience with them and they are pricey.

 

I would agree that the archangel design is not battle tested, so you are right on the idea that the feeding could be problematic, but without the ability to load quickly with low powered receiver mounted optics barring a detachable mag, you run into problems another problem. I see two ways of doing it. Stripper clips and long eye releif optics or no optics, which isn't a bad thing way to go, or detachable mags and no bar on any type of optics. The mags would also allow for a great compliment, so less reloading... not that you should need to reload too often or need more than 5 rounds if you know what you are doing. They key word their is "should," though.

 

I would think a synthetic stock would reduce some weight. Getting detachable mags along with a polymer stock kills two birds with one stone in my mind. Polymer mags also make less noise than stippers in a bandolier or satchel.

 

The rationale behind .308 is that it is a good all around caliber with the added range when you need it, and also probably easier to scanvenge than 30-30. Now I am looking at using a Mosin as my base rifle, so ammo availabilty is kind of out the window.

I think you might want to edit the title of this thread and remove the word inexpensive and add .308 in it's place. You are starting to loose me, expense wise at least, with the polymer stocks, optics, battle tested, detachable magazines, etc. This seems like a lot of requirements for an inexpensive SHTF rifle.

 

Nothing wrong with what you are talking about for your rifle but seems that expense, or at least trying to stay around $300 my idea of inexpensive, is not a real factor here and I think you have already decided on .308. Not giving you a hard time but it might help to get suggestions that are more in line with what you are into. Just my 2 cents.