Inexpensive SHTF Rifle Suggestions

[Guest kylexander]

So, I've been thinking hard about a project gun to fulfill a multipurpose role as my SHTF gun. I am not wanting to spend a lot of money so close to Christmas. I was thinking a general purpose cartridge like .308. Something that I could scavenge if need be. Things I've looked at.

 

Those 1916 Spanish Mausers in 7.62 Nato.

Mosin Nagants... although I am not a fan of the caliber of their reliability.

An Ishapore

 

I have also thought about converting a remington 700 to take detachable mags. I really like the Ruger Gunsite Scout... because bolt guns are light and dependable, and that detachable mag and short pull really appeal to me. The price tag however, does not.

 

I've been thinking if I could find something in .308 that had a 10 round capacity, I could live with that, even if it just takes stripper clips. I am fairly certain I could chop the barrel of any rifle in that caliber to 16-18" and put holes on paper at 200 yards. As long as I can take a mid-sized animal at 100 yards though and defend myself in a pinch, I'd be happy. A project rifle would be a little more fun to me though. Trying to shed weight without sacraficing dependability or *too* much accuracy seems like a fun endeavor.

 

Anyone have any suggestions. Suitable budget rifles meeting the criteria? A different caliber that would be scavengable? Is the idea a bust? The debate is open.

Edited November 10, 2013 by kylexander

[nightrunner]

Mossberg MVP

[Guest kylexander]

I've definitely looked at the Mossberg MVP. The only problems I have with it are that it's chambered in .223, which I find to be underpowered, and the price ($599 at the LGS) is a little steep for what it is... I like the detachable mag and the weight. I was hoping to stay in the ~300 range though for the base rifle...

[RichardR]

With a limited budget to work with I'd probably lean towards a lever action rifle coupled with a revolver with both of them chambered in the same caliber.

.308 isn't exactly cheap anymore, so the cost savings you'd get with a less expensive ammunition & by having zero extra magazines needed by going with say a lever action rifle chambered in .38spl/.357mag the savings would/could/should essentially pay for a good used revolver.

[nightrunner]

MVP are available in .300blk and .308 now or soon.

If all you need is deer sized game at 100yards and defense, id say a 30/30 lever action is perfect. Same ballistics as AK with better bullets and quicker action than a bolt

[Guest kylexander]

30/30 is a great round. Don't get me wrong. But how common is it these days? Although I highly doubt it would come to scavenging in any US SHTF senario, I'd like to be ready to do so. 30-30 is just not as common as it used to be IMHO. I love the idea of a .357 lever action, but it is not, and never will be a rifle round. It almost makes it up there, but a heavy .357 load in a lever action is never going to come close to a medium load 30-30.

 

Both ideas are great, and I am not opposed to either. I have never seen a .357 lever action locally, or I would have bought it a long time ago, and all the 30-30's around here are  usually upwards of 400$ used. If I had some better data on 30-30 availability showing ample supplies, better than knowing what's in my friends' and neighbors' safes, then I would definitely spring for a 30-30.

 

The .357 revolver is a must have. I just wish I had something better than my Rossi. Sight blades broke off of it while it was in a pack...

[jgradyc]

You might want to consider the Kel Tec Sub 2000 in 40 cal Glock magazines. It's already small, lightweight, short barreled and has the added benefit of interchangeable magazines with Glock 40 cal handguns. It retails for less than $400 when you can find it.  I don't know if the 40 caliber has enough stopping power for 100 yards. Someone else will have to comment. If you go to www.theKTOG.org website, you'll find ways to add a scope to the Sub 2000 and retain it's folding ability.  Folded, it can be carried in a backpack or a very large laptop bag.

[piercedan]

Remington 700 in whatever caliber you choose. I've got one in 270 that was only slightly more than your stated budget. I love it.

One of the models come with detachable mags. Edited November 10, 2013 by piercedan

[Guest kylexander]

I keep coming back to the Remington 700. It has everything I want in it. Conversions for detachable mags, short barrel "carbine" models, a solid action. I just cannot find one for below $650. Not that the price isn't fair for what you are getting... I am just really not trying to go above $300. Back in 2006 when I was busy buying up SKS's and WASR 10's you could get a decent scout rifle on a budget like that without even trying. Now it seems impossible. Having to convert the rem 700 for detachable mags and throw some decent optics on it, and I am looking at about $900. Hence the goal of keeping the base rifle at $300.

 

I am really liking the idea of a .357 lever action. I can't find one anywhere in town though. Apparently one sold a few months back for $475. Still a little steep for the current budget.

Edited November 10, 2013 by kylexander

[jcluff]

Decent SHTF guns: Keltec SU16B. It's .223 but folds in half for portability and takes STANAG mags. $500 Keltec Sub2000 in .40sw has the same energy at 50 yards as a .357 at its muzzle. $400 AR-15 you assemble using PSA kits on special. This can be completed for under $600 with the right parts. HiPoint 4095(,40sw) or 4595(.45) both can be found for under $300 Mosin Nagant in the Arch Angel stock accepts 5 and 10 round magazines. SKS, $350 price range You might be able to find an AK in the $500 price range if you hunt online. I don't know much about the MVP. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Edited November 10, 2013 by jcluff

[Guest kylexander]

I've been through several SKS's and AK's. Never met an SKS that agreed with me, but in terms of what I need, the AK more than fits the bill... excluding 7.62x39. While you can buy it up cheap right now, I am not sure how much you could round up in the end of days, at least state side.

The Mosin Nagant's rimmed cartridge is its downfall for me. Of the 4 MN's I've had, all had frequent failures in terms of feeding and extracting cartidges... other that that... they're perfect. I feel that 7.62x54R would present the same problem in terms of availability as x39. Find enough spam cans and you can hunker down for a while... but carrying it with you in a bug-out situation is a different story.

[Smith]

The .357 lever action is the way to go. Contrary to what you said about ballitically not coming close to the 30-30 it is amazing what the the longer barrel does for the versatile .357. In fact with some off the hotter loads like Buffalo Bore you can surpass the ballistics of the 30-30. Add to the fact you can shoot .38spl as well and you have a great light load for smaller game and twice the ammo resource.

[Guest kylexander]

I'd agree on the versatility aspect. I'm pretty well sold on the .357 Lever Action... the only unanswered question in my mind is where to find one... and even more importantly and possibly impossible... where to find one within or close to my $300 budget. Doesn't seem like a likely find. I'd take a bolt action in place of the lever action, but as far as I know, Ruger is the only manufacturer with one on the market.

[DaveTN]

Buds has the Savage Axis in 308 for $293, Mossberg 100 ATR for $275, Cabeals has the Remington 700 ADL with a scope on sale for $440.

I don’t think your budget is enough to get anything that will take a mag. I looked at converting my Rem 700 308 to take mags, but the cost was too high. Last time I looked it was over $200 and mags were like $80 each. I got an MVP when they came out it’s only a .223 but I just wanted it for trigger time. They offer it now in a 308, but looks like street price will be around 600-700, at that price I’m going to go with a Remington 700 and forget the mag.

[Guest kylexander]

Here's an article I found comparing ballistics of the two calibers.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/chris-dumm/lever-action-ballistics-30-30-vs-357-magnum/

[frankmako]

30-06/308 - many different types (bolt and auto) and prices to be found.  30-30 and 35 rem - old school lever guns that are priced good.  357/38 sp and 44 mag lever guns - high price at this time because of cowboy shooting.  5.56/223 bolt and auto rifles.  all of these types will do what you want with out any problems.  all can be used for hunting/protection and will stop/kill with ease.  when it comes to scavenging ammo these should not be much a problem to find in homes, police departments, and military bases.  but what i have seen in the past 35 years on the job, during search warrants in 98% of the homes i have found more 22 lr and 12 ga ammo over anything else.  maybe a ruger 10/22 is the rifle that you are looking for. 

[Guest kylexander]

600-700 for an MVP in .308 is still a better buy that a Ruger GSR at 800+.

The expensive of det mag conversion was the idea behind the $300 budget for the rifle. I thought it might leave me with a good rifle until I could spring for the mag modifications.

[Guest kylexander]

Oh, I already have a 10/22 of course. I couldn't agree more. The recent ammo shortage has brought availability into question lately, though. Then again, a lot of individuals I know are hording it. Perhaps that would make it all the more common.

[musicman]

Ditto Smith on the 357 lever. I have a Marlin 1894 and it's the bee's knees.

Nobody's talking about a Savage??? Multiple great offerings in the $250-350 range, in all popular calibers. I don't have one yet, but a 308 from them is on my short list. An unloved (by the public, it seems) option is the Marlin XL7. I have one in 270 and really enjoy it. It does have a thinner (read:lighter) barrel that heats up after 5-6 quick rounds and walks low right, but those first few rounds are about on top of each other when I'm doin' it right.

Lots of good choices out there. :-)

[Smith]

I've had good fortune with the Rossi 92. Essentially it is a clone of the Winchester 92 and is very easy to work the action over. A lot of the cowboy action guys use them just for that reason. You can get them with a 16" barrel which makes it really compact but I prefer the 20" due to the better ballistics. You can usually special order those or find them close to you budget. It's It's not as nice as a Marlin but doesn't cost like a Marlin either.;) Edited November 10, 2013 by Smith

[jcluff]

but carrying it with you in a bug-out situation is a different story.

I think it really comes down to the scenario/source of SHTF. If you can see the threat, coming before it hits, you have time to grab a couple different weapons and cans of ammo. What you can carry will become your most plentiful source of ammo, because everybody will become ammo hoarders in about 2 seconds flat. So small, lighter weight and packing a punch will mean you are able to carry more, more effectively. .223 would probably become my round of choice, with .22lr as a backup. If you need to be mobile, .308 is larger, and heavier, reducing the amount you can carry.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[DaveTN]

600-700 for an MVP in .308 is still a better buy that a Ruger GSR at 800+.
The expensive of det mag conversion was the idea behind the $300 budget for the rifle. I thought it might leave me with a good rifle until I could spring for the mag modifications.

Once you approach a grand you are near the price point of an AR10. Now bolts and levers are not in the running. Doesn’t Wal-Mart sell a DPMS 308 for $900?

[Guest kylexander]

I would probably opt for a Saiga .308 or Vepr .308 before an AR type at that price point. Dito on either one in .223 as well. Quick cleaning and less picky about ammo and conditions... i.e. not much time to clean the weapon and rough weather/terrain.

[Moped]

There are still plenty of 30/30s being sold and the ammo is readily available.  a 30/30 will take anything  found in Tennessee. 

 

For the criteria that you specified, the Remington is probably the most widely available.  But if you are looking to change to a detachable mag, you probably going over your budget. 

 

In addition to the MVP, look at the Ruger All-Aerican, Savage Arms Axis and Hog Hunter.  All already have the detachable magazine and the Hog Hunter has iron sites, a feature I think is highly important for a SHTF rifle.  Iron sites hardly ever break and don't fog up.

 

I have an Isaphore and it's got all the features you want, but it's no tack driver.  It usually groups around 3" or 4" inches at 100 yards.  Stay away from the Spanish 1916 Mausers and the FR-7 (both 93 actions and weaker).  Look for am FR-8 which was built on the Mauser 98 action.  Spain used an underpowered version of the 7.62x51 NATO round and they didn't need to worry about a 93 action blowing up.  .308 Win is actually produces higher pressures than 7.62x51 NATO (62,000 CUP vs 50,000 CUP).  So it might not be prudent to shot a lot of hunting rounds from a 1916 action.  That also might be an issue with the Isaphore as well.  The Enfield action was never known for being overly strong.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Moped

[Guest kylexander]

Honestly... I would love an Ishapore... it is perfect for what I need in every way. Problem is... I can't find one. I used to see them everywhere a few years ago and am now beating myself up over never grabbing one. They just aren't around anymore. If anyone wants to sell me one, I'd love to drive out to meet them with cash in hand. It just isn't happening. That said... I may just have to keep an eye open for longer than I had hoped and wait to catch someone who is tired of a great rifle or in a bind. I don't need a tack driver in an SHTF situation here in TN. I just need something that can hit a paper plate at 100 yards and has some decent iron sights. Optics are a plus, but as mentioned above, iron sights have a lot less ways to fail. I have seen an FR-8 only once in my life. While I'd love one due to the mauser action, I think an Ishapore would be the least rare of the two. I just love the idea of having a bolt action to depend on. They are simple and effective.

Edited November 10, 2013 by kylexander