Snake Salvation

[R_Bert]

Heh.

 

Less than 24 hours post TWRA, and service again packed full of snakes.

 

Will we see more game wardens in church now?  I am pretty sure most of the SD deputies I know (regardless of county) won't get near the things.

 

http://www.wate.com/story/23921576/preacher-back-at-church-with-snakes-despite-twra-seizure

 

I bet the TV show ratings go up this week.

[UncleJak]

I don't know how they could legally confiscate them in the first place. Normally religious practices receive exemptions from laws like this.just like how Native American ceremonies can use eagle feathers , but otherwise it is illegal to own them.

Sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[leroy]

We know some of the involved parties in this one (...thankfully, from a far off... no visits to our home or to theirs...)... The thought is that the recent National Geographic TV segment on this ole boy provided the "evidence" for the charges... This one will be great to watch...

 

The real sad truth of this story is that it "....will give great opportunity for the haters of God to blaspheme Him..." and paint Christianity as something it simply is not... This stuff, is at best, misguided ignorance; and at worst, a trip down the lane of sensationalism and nuttiness for imagined fame a few dollars... My vote is for the latter....

 

It would appear to me that "snake handling"  religious observances could, in fact, be self-limiting... If i wuz a committed Darwinist, i would say, let "natural selection" and "survival of the fittist" take it's course here...

 

I cant wait for what's next here....

 

leroy

Edited November 9, 2013 by leroy

[Oh Shoot]

I can't find any actual penalty for possessing them in TCA beyond the confiscation, so seems the Rev isn't facing any fines or jail time.

 

- OS

[R_Bert]

I am guessing the Rev won't do well in next years big-game hunt drawings.

[Raoul]

Back  in the 70's I was employed by a TV station. We did what's now called "investigative journalism" by doing a video special on snake handling in religious services. I shot a bunch of film (yes film) in some churches in NE TN and SW VA.

Truly wild stuff. I say leave them to it.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

I think one of the other concerns they have is with people bringing  snakes into the state that are not native(  seen on tv where they even went to Texas  to get snakes) ( that might have been a show they filmed in KY tho )and bringing in  diseases that are not here  yet..

 

From 2 diff sites

 

 

The State Code in Tennessee, section 39-17-101, makes it an offense "for a person to display, exhibit, handle, or use a poisonous or dangerous snake or reptile in such manner as to endanger the life or health of any person." It doesn’t mention religious gatherings; a tourist-trap snake show along the interstate could just as well violate this statute.

A case in the Tennessee state supreme court in 1975, Swann v. Pack , (527 S.W.2d 99), concerned a Holiness Church in which snake handling occurred. The court examined the matter from the common law point of view, that is, they weren't enforcing any particular statute but were actually deciding if the court had justification to shut down Rev. Pack's church. In sending the case back to the lower court, the supreme court instructed the lower court judge to: "enter an injunction perpetually enjoining and restraining all parties respondent from handling, displaying or exhibiting dangerous and poisonous snakes or from consuming strychnine or any other poisonous substances, within the confines of the State of Tennessee."
 

[Oh Shoot]

Back  in the 70's I was employed by a TV station. We did what's now called "investigative journalism" by doing a video special on snake handling in religious services. I shot a bunch of film (yes film) in some churches in NE TN and SW VA.

Truly wild stuff. I say leave them to it.

 

I say make them use the snakes that were indigenous to the regions depicted in the Bible. The ten or so worst make our North American ones look like wimps.

 

- OS

[DaveS]

I don't know how they could legally confiscate them in the first place. Normally religious practices receive exemptions from laws like this.just like how Native American ceremonies can use eagle feathers , but otherwise it is illegal to own them.

Sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

It is illegal in Tennessee to keep as pets any poisonous snake whether bought or caught wild. Period. No exception!

 

DaveS

[Guest Riciticky]

Don't keep as pets, just chop chop. JMO. Got bit by a black one not long ago.

[DaveS]

He says "many of the snakes we use isn't ours, they come from other places".  Lacy Act? If so, he's in deep soup! I'll research it.

 

DaveS

Edited November 9, 2013 by DaveS

[vontar]

I know the Revs Dad.  I used to go hunting with him.

 

However, I can't recall ever meeting Andrew.  His dad was several years older then me. 

 

According to his show, they went to other states to catch some of the snakes.

 

I believe there is a law against importing them to TN with out permits.

 

Snake handing church are legal in one state, I believe West Virginia.

 

However if someone pushed hard enough with the correct legal aid they could probably always argue freedom of religion and get the exceptions or change in the laws.

Edited November 9, 2013 by vontar

[TrickyNicky]

He says "many of the snakes we use isn't ours, they come from other places". Lacy Act? If so, he's in deep soup! I'll research it.

DaveS

I could be wrong but I think for it to qualify for LACY it would have to be an international purchase, no? Guess you'll tell me after your research. :)

<EDIT> you may be right Dave, 30 seconds of google shows that its only certain amendments that focus on importation. Seems trafficking charges may apply after all. Edited November 9, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[Garufa]

Ah, the yearly snake bust.  Guaranteed news story at least once a year here in ET.  At least it's not a story of one of the those crackpot "preachers" getting bitten.

[vontar]

Ah, the yearly snake bust.  Guaranteed news story at least once a year here in ET.  At least it's not a story of one of the those crackpot "preachers" getting bitten.

 

Actually, I believe I heard about a year ago Andrew got bit.  (I heard he picked up the wrong one.)

[DaveS]

I could be wrong but I think for it to qualify for LACY it would have to be an international purchase, no? Guess you'll tell me after your research. :)

<EDIT> you may be right Dave, 30 seconds of google shows that its only certain amendments that focus on importation. Seems trafficking charges may apply after all.

It also falls under illegally transporting illegal wildlife across state lines. I think there was a post on here about a guy in Tennessee that got busted under the Lacy Act for shooting a Mule Deer and bringing it in state without the proper hunt tags.

 

DaveS

[Garufa]

Actually, I believe I heard about a year ago Andrew got bit.  (I heard he picked up the wrong one.)

'

I imagine he keeps some antivenin on hand like the rest of them.

[vontar]

'

I imagine he keeps some antivenin on hand like the rest of them.

at the risk of being struck by lightening, the way I heard it was there was 2 snakes.

He received to pick one of the up.  After he was bit, he told it was his fault, he picked up the wrong one.

 

I wasn't there and this was heard 2nd hand from one of the most honest people I have ever known.  Also the person that told me wasn't there.

 

Btw, his Dad has been known to take some good sized deer.

 

I remember one year at Deer camp, his dad took an 8 or 9 point at about 200 yards with iron sights with a Swiss K31.  It was a head shot as well.

[McGarrett]

'

I imagine he keeps some antivenin on hand like the rest of them.

It comes premixed in the kool-aid.

[leroy]

For some reason, i think, (...that means i dont know for sure...) that this boy is facing misdemeanor charges... I want to say its a "class three misdemeanor" (...whatever that  is...) for the snake thing...  Mabee some of our wildlife guys can speak to this one....

 

leroy

[Oh Shoot]

For some reason, i think, (...that means i dont know for sure...) that this boy is facing misdemeanor charges... I want to say its a "class three misdemeanor" (...whatever that  is...) for the snake thing...  Mabee some of our wildlife guys can speak to this one....

 

leroy

 

Can't find any penalties mentioned in the pertinent statute:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=tennessee+code+annotated+possession+of+Class+1+Wildlife&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

Maybe there's a catchall one listed elsewhere in the TWRA sections, dunno.

 

- OS

[vontar]

I believe there is a rule about hunting any animal that there is no set season for.

 

a year or 2 ago we had big discussions about wild hogs and how they removed them from the hunting season in all by a few places thus making it illegal to take one.  Kinda the same for snakes, if there is no season for them (there isn't in TN) it is like poaching.

 

Yes i know most of those according to the show where harvested outside of TN, however that brings in another level.

 

http://tn.gov/sos/rules/1660/1660-01/1660-01-18.pdf

 

 

http://www.tennsnakes.org/

 

however, like others, I can't find how much trouble a person could get into over snakes.

 

The catch all is probably the law related to poaching.

Edited November 10, 2013 by vontar

[Garufa]

It's curious that serpents are so protected. 

[Clod Stomper]

It's curious that serpents are so protected. 

Are you kidding?  Some of them have bodyguards and even Secret Service protection.  

 

Oh wait.  Wrong thread.

[McGarrett]

I believe there is a rule about hunting any animal that there is no set season for.

 

a year or 2 ago we had big discussions about wild hogs and how they removed them from the hunting season in all by a few places thus making it illegal to take one.  Kinda the same for snakes, if there is no season for them (there isn't in TN) it is like poaching.

 

Yes i know most of those according to the show where harvested outside of TN, however that brings in another level.

 

http://tn.gov/sos/rules/1660/1660-01/1660-01-18.pdf

 

 

http://www.tennsnakes.org/

 

however, like others, I can't find how much trouble a person could get into over snakes.

 

The catch all is probably the law related to poaching.

If I see a snake in the church service I am attending the only thing I will be hunting is the door.