Co-worker accidentally shot himself...

[TripleDigitRide]

I'm afraid I don't follow.

I'm perplexed at the fact that you would hand anyone a firearm with a round in the chamber or magazine, period. Don't you work in a gun shop? I'm equally perplexed at the idea of your friend not checking the firearm before messing with it. 

When I was 17-years-old, before I knew much of anything about firearms, I had a negligent discharge that could have easily left me or someone else badly hurt or dead. That day has forever changed the way I handle firearms. Hopefully the same can be said for you and your friend.

Edited November 2, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[Garufa]

Is it wrong to ask for the obligatory pics?

[TripleDigitRide]

Is it wrong to ask for the obligatory pics?

No. They should be mandatory. 

[whitewolf001]

Sure i've made mistakes but not one that could have gotten someone killed. If I had done something like that I'd never carry a gun again for fear id hurt someone. You know what happens to people where I work that have negligent discharges? They are fired and prosecuted as a civil matter if any damage is done. I was not nor am I arrogant. I'm just expressing my opinion and nothing more. I'm sorry if your offended but you should be thicker skinned. I think someone earlier pretty much said the same thing just not in as many words and you did not admonish them.



Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

 

I generally am thicker skinned and take what's coming but no one here has outright name called, with the exception of Erik88's "Jackass" comment which it was in fact a jackass mistake on BOTH our parts, that is until your statement which was a very childish statement(IN MY OPINION), and that's saying something coming from me because I'm rather the kidder.

Edited November 2, 2013 by whitewolf001

[whitewolf001]

No. They should be mandatory. 

 

Is it wrong to ask for the obligatory pics?

I'll post some when I see him again, I'll also try to snap some when he gets it unwrapped.

[whitewolf001]

I'm perplexed at the fact that you would hand anyone a firearm with a round in the chamber or magazine, period. Don't you work in a gun shop? I'm equally perplexed at the idea of your friend not checking the firearm before messing with it. 

When I was 17-years-old, before I knew much of anything about firearms, I had a negligent discharge that could have easily left me or someone else badly hurt or dead. That day has forever changed the way I handle firearms. Hopefull the same can be said for you and your friend.

Indeed, sir, this is a lesson learned as I mentioned before. I do in fact work in a gunshop(part time, lol) but I've always been of the mindset of if someone hands me something I'm going to hand it back in the same fashion(with the exception of a chambered cartridge as I've avoided doing that in the hopes of not being involved in an AD) in which I recieved it, never again will I practice this as firearms are concerned. This has certainly been the lesson I wished I'd never have been involved with. I keep flashing back to it thinking about giving it to him with it unloaded or at least telling him that he needed to remove the mag, it's a rather horrible experience I hope to never see ever again.

[tnguy]

So what you're basically saying is that he racked the slide and then pulled the trigger? Because there's no way it's firing if it just had the magazine inserted.

I don't agree that you bear any of the blame myself. It *would* have been a good thing if the magazine had not been in the gun so your friend would have been /less likely/ to screw up but it's all on him. *Every* gun is ready to go unless proven otherwise. Gun dis-assembly and/or cleaning, ammo is left in another room entirely.

[TMF]

So what you're basically saying is that he racked the slide and then pulled the trigger? Because there's no way it's firing if it just had the magazine inserted.I don't agree that you bear any of the blame myself. It *would* have been a good thing if the magazine had not been in the gun so your friend would have been /less likely/ to screw up but it's all on him. *Every* gun is ready to go unless proven otherwise. Gun dis-assembly and/or cleaning, ammo is left in another room entirely.

I wouldn't say that he bears blame, but certainly if he had followed some of the basic rules of firearm safety it wouldn't have happened. Ultimately, when you pull the trigger on the firearm and a bullet comes out, it is the trigger puller who owns all responsibility. However, there is a reason you don't hand hot weapons to people; this is one of them.

No one was killed and a valuable lesson was learned. I doubt the OP or the affected party will ever make this mistake again. This is one if those great cautionary takes that people reading this thread should learn from.

[whitewolf001]

I wouldn't say that he bears blame, but certainly if he had followed some of the basic rules of firearm safety it wouldn't have happened. Ultimately, when you pull the trigger on the firearm and a bullet comes out, it is the trigger puller who owns all responsibility. However, there is a reason you don't hand hot weapons to people; this is one of them.

No one was killed and a valuable lesson was learned. I doubt the OP or the affected party will ever make this mistake again. This is one if those great cautionary takes that people reading this thread should learn from.

 

Aye, twas a pucker factor 5 moment indeed.

[TMF]

Aye, twas a pucker factor 5 moment indeed.

I haven't had a ND yet, but if I did I don't suppose it would translate to me never allowing myself around firearms again. I've been around a lot of NDs. Two of them people were shot. One ND was on full auto less than a foot from me. Yep, it gets pucker factor up. It also provides a lesson you won't forget for the rest of your life.

Some folks I know who have had NDs are great people who have done great things, not dummy bubbas. It amounts to complacency. We are all susceptible to it, so that's why we do certain things to overcome the complacency.

[whitewolf001]

Oh I'll still play with guns, heh heh, just with much more new found respect and a more careful approach. The young man it happened to has already told me that this has been one those pivotal life changing moments and not that he'll put down guns but that he has a new found respect for them and their capacity for destruction, albeit he said that in a much shorter version, mine just sounds better, haha.

 

I haven't had a ND yet, but if I did I don't suppose it would translate to me never allowing myself around firearms again. I've been around a lot of NDs. Two of them people were shot. One ND was on full auto less than a foot from me. Yep, it gets pucker factor up. It also provides a lesson you won't forget for the rest of your life.

Some folks I know who have had NDs are great people who have done great things, not dummy bubbas. It amounts to complacency. We are all susceptible to it, so that's why we do certain things to overcome the complacency.

 

Exactly, this is the point I was trying to make earlier. Safeties on firearms have come about because accidents do indeed happen, they're not bias to whom they happen, they just do; as you said, they occur when that person becomes too careless with something that can so quickly take a life.

Edited November 3, 2013 by whitewolf001

[whitewolf001]

This is after he got it bandaged, I'll try to get him to send me one when he gets these bandages removed.

[tnguy]

You need to get him a different bracelet that says "verify".

[whitewolf001]

You need to get him a different bracelet that says "verify".

Okay, that was pretty funny. :P

[Daniel]

I haven't had a ND yet, but if I did I don't suppose it would translate to me never allowing myself around firearms again. I've been around a lot of NDs. Two of them people were shot. One ND was on full auto less than a foot from me. Yep, it gets pucker factor up. It also provides a lesson you won't forget for the rest of your life.

Some folks I know who have had NDs are great people who have done great things, not dummy bubbas. It amounts to complacency. We are all susceptible to it, so that's why we do certain things to overcome the complacency.

Auto NDs are something I hope to never see again. I personally know 2 people who have done so. One a guy almost shot a SSG who had moved up to drag the C-wire from our gate as we went out on a mission. The gunner on the pedestal loaded up and fired as he grabbed the grip. For those not familiar, the M249 cant be put on safe until it has been charged because it fires from the open bolt position. Three rounds went right in front of his Squad Leader. The other, a 12 year old Iraqi boy was killed. I wasn't there for that one but the guy got off by saying it was a runaway gun. Makes no sense though since only 3 or 4 rounds were fired.

 

I've seen a CSM fire not 1 but 2 rounds into a clearing barrel after he failed to drop the mag after the first ND. He got escorted to the Brigade TOC where our CSM had said to bring anyone who had an ND so they received punishment from him directly. Instead he just sent him back to his unit with no consequences.

 

A fellow soldier and I were at the clearing barrels in our compound with a couple others and he fired one into the barrel. We waited a few seconds and no one reacted or came to see WTF so he just turned and walked away and we all pretended it never happend.

 

The last one was when my FiL handed me an "empty" Beretta Tomcat. I dropped the loaded mag and charged it and found a round chambered. When I told him it was loaded he assured me it wasnt unitl I showed him the full mag and round that was stuck in the barrel. The extracter was not extracting it for some reason. He asked for it and tried charging it a few times. I told him I would go get a cleaning rod. As I turned to go inside he NDed into the ground at our feet.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Daniel

[TMF]

The one that had me checking myself for holes was about 10 years ago in Iraq. We had just finished up a hit and were loading back up on the trucks. Our assault force was an Iraqi SWAT unit I was advising, so I was riding to/from target in the back of their trucks with them. I had got an accountability thumbs up from each truck and was about to get into the back of the one I was in. One of the Iraqis got up to help me in and extended his hand out. His other hand was on the pistol grip of his AK and I guess his finger was on the trigger. When he went to pull me up he squeezed the trigger and put a burst of full auto right between my legs. He went back to being a regular cop the next day.

Another one I was on a hit where the terp had a ND and shot a cop in the leg. Other one was on a range where one Soldier shot another one in the arm while clearing his weapon.

[DaveS]

A mistake was made, and two people learned a lesson from it. There is no reason in the world to get hateful to whitewolf. I'm sure he will assure that something like this never happens again. The fella that got hurt? Will make absolutely sure from here on out that nothing like that ever happens again! And if y'all think you're so damn perfect, go look in the mirror.

 

DaveS

[mikegideon]

This is going to sound harsh.... 

 

This is because it needs to be harsh......

 

This was not an accident.....

 

This was negligence on both of you. 

 

There is a reason that professionals and trained individuals will always Unload and Show Clear to demonstrate the safety of any firearm that they hand to someone else.  The person accepting the firearm must also verify the unloaded and cleared state of the firearm.

 

Rule # 1.  All Guns Are Always Loaded - - - AND you must ALWAYS account that others WILL NOT understand that.

 

Agreed, but it ain't even that. Don't ever point the muzzle of a gun at any part of your anatomy and pull the trigger. It's the best way to get shot

[dlmeadows]

I never ever ever ever ever hand someone a gun with a mag. First thing I do everytime without fail is remove the mag if one is in it, open and lock back the slide before handing it too them. Glad this didnt turn out much much worse. both of you are very lucky

[dlmeadows]

Actually even if I am at home dry fire practicing and sit my gun down too use the restroom, get a drink etc etc the first thing I do when I get back is pick up my gun and verify it is clear even though I know for a fact it is. That is one step I will never forget and after this I can guarantee you both will no longer forget that step as well.

[Guest richief]

Working in manufacturing, I am schooled in safety, and I also as a NRA certified Pistol Instructor teach safety.

 The common denominator is that, their is no such thing as an accident.

All injuries can usualy be traced back to an unsafe condition, followed by an unsafe action.

In manufacturing we spend alot of time policing unsafe conditions, as these are identifiable, and their is no excuse for the collective negligence of these conditions.

All levels of employees are responsible for identifying, reporting, and correcting any and all unsafe conditions.

 As for unsafe actions it is more focussed on individual responsibility and training, with emphasis that an unsafe action may injure, not only yourself but coworkers.

A catch phrase I use is, "you don't want to be that guy that has to answer for someone elses injury."

[tnguy]

I'll just repeat my question about whether he racked the slide before pulling the trigger.

 

It doesn't make a huge amount of difference but I'm definitely curious.

Edited November 5, 2013 by tnguy

[whitewolf001]

I'll just repeat my question about whether he racked the slide before pulling the trigger.

 

It doesn't make a huge amount of difference but I'm definitely curious.

Si senior. He racked it back with the mag still in the weapon.