legal obligation to unload

[jacob]

This may have been posted previously but couldn't find the topic. My wife was stopped for speeding today and informed the officer she had a loaded weapon as courtesy when she handed him her license and permit. She said he had her unload the weapon, but didnt ask her to handle the pistol during the stop. I asked her his reasoning and she said he didnt state to her why and because of the circumstances, she didnt ask either. Now, I dont want her to end up on the ground in cuffs but this pisses me off to no end. I would have asked this bastard why I had to unload the pistol before it went any further. I need some advice or be pointed to some statutes on this one as I dont see how an officer has a legal leg in this situation...thanks guys..

[Chucktshoes]

I imagine the office asked her to unload it as an alternative to taking possession of the weapon for the duration of the stop which is something the law specifically allows for reasons of "officer safety". My question to the officer would be to ask how having me handle my weapon helps increase his safety? Wouldn't the weapon staying put in its holster be a much safer course of action for everyone involved?

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Wait, I dont get it? how did she unload but not handle it?

Edited October 30, 2013 by RebelCowboySnB

[jacob]

The officer didnt handle it..didnt take the round or the mag...how the hell is that "officer safety"...what would have stopped her from reloading when he walked to his car to run her license and shoot him when he came back?

I am usually pretty logical and give people benefit of the doubt, but I fail to see the logic in this situation...

[glock55]

i would advise the wife not to say the weapon is loaded. i just give an officer my dl and permit without comment. all they have ever asked was were was the weapon located. to my way of thinking any time a weapon comes out of the holster the chances for a discharge , negligent or otherwise , goes up especially trying to unload it in a car. this situation seems to have decreased officer and civilian safety as opposed to increasing it. i might contact the chief of the pd and ask about the safety of this procedure and perhaps he can make it make sense.  don't be argumentative but come across as a concerned citizen seeking clarification on the matter. 

[jacob]

My past experience also is to be asked where the firearm is located. Have never been asked to expose it or unload it. Thanks for the input sir..

[tnguy]

It's dumb. Never been asked to do it myself. But in a similar circumstance, I would comply, reload when he left and bitch about it on an internet forum. No point making more trouble unless you are willing to stick your neck out to make a point. There's a saying about choosing your battles.

[jacob]

I wouldnt have a problem with obliging a request but I would ask for a reason also. I have a problem with just handing over my firearm without asking why first, even though in all but a few cases the answer would be obvious...

[Hozzie]

I wouldn't have said anything about it in the first place.  We can debate if you should, but she had no obligation to tell them she had it at all unless she was asked.  If asked, I would tell them where it is and follow all requests, but I don't see a need to just bring it up.  

 

I don't say this because I am trying to hide anything or make anyone's job harder.  I simply don't consider it a big deal to have it with me and unless there are extenuating circumstances, I am not going to make it a point to make a deal of it.  

 

Directly related to the point, if I was asked to unload it, no problem.  It isn't worth an argument at that point.   I can simply reload it when we are done.

[jacob]

There again...no problem unloading the firearm. But we arent kids that are doing things just because mommy and daddy say so. Now if the officer wants to make the point of unloading for his safety and peace of mind, fine. But just because, nope....

[Oh Shoot]

LEO was an idiot. Safest way to handle a firearm is always simply not to handle it at all.

 

- OS

[jacob]

I told my wife to politely question LE in the event it happens again as to why she needs to handle the weapon if it is already secured instead of just blindly complying. I understand the mentality of LEOs wanting to be safe, but as OS said the least amount of handling a loaded firearm the better...

[bersaguy]

I think the leo may have just been testing her to see if she would comply without question. Some leo's will just test people to see if they will comply. We have a few here in Gallatin that are known to do that from time to time. I wish the Chief would lay down a set of rules for dealing with legal carry people and tell all his officers that is the rule and they all must follow it. The Chief here is a great guy and very level headed about Legal carry. The Sheriff is also a great guy and also very legal carry friendly and I have never been stopped by any of his officers yet so don't know their procedures........jmho

[jacob]

I guess that is the root of my problem. She has a "legal" right to carry. She gave him her permit so its not like she was hiding anything...I personally feel he was being a dick, but thats just me...

[JayC]

Yet another example of my don't give LEO's your permit unless you're required to do so under the law.  They won't find out if you have a permit or not until after they run your D/L, and by then they've already written the ticket and likely won't bother asking about it.  

 

One day an officer in the name of "officer safety" will have a negligent discharge and end up shooting themselves, the permit holder or an innocent bystander, all because they thought it was a good idea to handle a loaded firearm for no good reason.

 

At the very least we need to amend the law to require officers document every time they disarm a permit holder and the exact officer safety reason for that disarm.  My guess is the number of these silly posts would go away with that single change.

[bersaguy]

I guess that is the root of my problem. She has a "legal" right to carry. She gave him her permit so its not like she was hiding anything...I personally feel he was being a dick, but thats just me...

Maybe next time I would wait and see if the leo asks for it instead of volunteering it up front. It is not a law that you show it on a routine traffic stop I don't think in Tennessee but maybe someone here will have more information on that. I have been stopped a few times and didn't offer it and was never asked for it. I get stopped if I get out of Gallatin or Hendersonville because of my seat belt. I don't wear the shoulder harness section but do wear the lap belt part of it. I have a letter from my doctor that explains why it is best I don't wear the shoulder harness part of it. Have  got 1 ticket  for it once. The judge read the letter from my doctor and dismissed the ticket. Plus I have a fully operational Air Bag. Most of all the leo's in Gallatin and Hendersonville know about my situation and don't stop me any more.

[MikePapa1]

I deal with police officers everyday. I have never heard of anyone ever being asked to do this. It makes no sense to me.

[gregintenn]

Did he offer to unload his as well?

[jacob]

Haha, not to my knowledge...

[wjh2657]

Practice was stupid! Gun is safest when it is safely in a holster. However, questioning the Officer is equally stupid. I spent a short period as a patrol officer (Sheriff's Deputy) and I have seen that most patrol officers will take any questioning from the "perp" (yes you are a "perp" or you wouldn't be in this situation) as a challenge and what ensues will be considered argument not discussion. It isn't that LEOs are inherently evil people, however they are many times very paranoid people, mainly due to the conditions of the job. Detectives are in a totally different environment as are Supervisors and they tend to be more conversational and less paranoid. Just do what the Officer says and go home, pissed or not.

[jacob]

I have a hard time just doing what I'm told if I'm not doing anything wrong...I'm not some jerk walking around open carrying trying to bait someone for you tube....I'm not saying I would be belligerent if the situation presented itself but why should I just do what I'm told?? IMHO, that conditioned response of compliance is why our country is in the shape it is now...

[jacob]

I have a hard time just doing what I'm told if I'm not doing anything wrong...I'm not some jerk walking around open carrying trying to bait someone for you tube....I'm not saying I would be belligerent if the situation presented itself but why should I just do what I'm told?? IMHO, that conditioned response of compliance is why our country is in the shape it is now...

[tnguy]

I have a hard time just doing what I'm told if I'm not doing anything wrong...I'm not some jerk walking around open carrying trying to bait someone for you tube....I'm not saying I would be belligerent if the situation presented itself but why should I just do what I'm told?? IMHO, that conditioned response of compliance is why our country is in the shape it is now...

That's a fair point of view. How far are you willing to take it?

[jacob]

Im not trying to come off like a tough guy, but dont see why I cant ask for a reason why I have to comply either....

[DaveTN]

Im not trying to come off like a tough guy, but dont see why I cant ask for a reason why I have to comply either....

You can ask all you want, what you can’t do is refuse to comply.

This makes no sense to me either. If he was concerned about his safety he would have disarmed her... period. That is his legal right.

If he was concerned about her safety and the safety of others he wouldn’t have had her handling her weapon to clear it.

While it makes no sense to me; he gets to do whatever he wants.