Questions about 9mm load data...... discrepancy

[ArmyBrat61]

 I just started reloading 9mm, after a 2 year hiatus, and cannot find my notebook anywhere. I have always used Ramshot ZIP as my powder and went to their website and printed out the load data. I use a Lee Turret Press and usually start out dipping the powder into cases in a loading tray using the supplied Lee dipper (.5cc) The question/problem I am having is the load data and the dipper grain weight are coming up vastly different. The Ramshot data for ZIP shows a starting grain weight of 3.2  (lead round nose 124gr)  and a max of 3.7   while the Lee .5cc dipper weighs out at 6.1 according to the slide scale....actual dipping from the container I use is between 5.6 and 5.9 consistently. The powder fills the casing to where the bullet sits after final seating/crimp so there is no excess space. I am not sure how to proceed from this point. I cannot remember my receipe, I have shot several hundred rounds of 9mm with ZIP and 124gr but do not remember the grain weight used and cannot find my notes anywhere. What would be the best move to procede? Contact Ramshot? Contact Lee?  Once I use up the ZIP I will be looking for a more available powder. Thanks for any help and input.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Zip is "nearly identical" to Win 231. The loads tend to be very close, weight-wise, but dunno if the two powders are near identical volumetric-wise.

I have a jug of zip but never opened. Have loaded lots of W-231 9 mm 124gn though. If zip is volumetrically similar to W-231 then that sounds like too much powder in your cases. As best I recall a max charge of W-231 only fills maybe a third or half of the case.

In a heavy bullet like 124 gn, the zip and W-231 burn a little too fast for real hot loads. Medium to light target loads are all you can make without over pressure. So there doesn't end up much powder in the cases.

Those two powders have more flexibility with lighter bullets in 9mm, where you can load em light or load em to purt respectable velocity without over pressure.

[Jonnin]

if they say 3.7 and you are over 5, you need a smaller dipper or a different powder. 

 

You can make a dipper if you get desperate, from something.  A screw & a dowl rod, drill out a hole until it is what you want for example. 

 

the lee dippers (and any others that I know of) are sort of 'one size fits all'  in that you get a few dippers and have to make it work (by using a powder and bullet for load data that weighs right in the provided dipper)

Edited October 27, 2013 by Jonnin

[RED333]

I only use weight to load with, not volume.

Now with a fine powder you might be alright,

stick powder will not work out just right.

[Caster]

Buy you a GOOD powder measure and never look back.

[musicman]

Gimme a couple minutes and I'll post pics of the data from the Lee book. I just started using zip in 9mm w 115gr fmjs... I think I was around 4-4.5gr or something like that.

[musicman]

You've got it all right except your cc to gr conversions.

[musicman]

The darker bar is cc.

[ArmyBrat61]

Thanks MusicMan....that's what I was needing....all that is in my missing notebook....where are you finding Zip?

[Jonnin]

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_7-2-13.pdf

 

May help.  MOST powders have a load data book you can get free online.

[musicman]

Murfreesboro gun show. Guy from reloadingden.net or something like that always has some. The Reloader's Bench in Mt Juliet has it every now and then, too.

[joustin]

I have an Excel sheet that has the conversion in it for the Auto Disk and dippers, weigh each charge to verify. So far these are accurate but the dippers and disks are variable.

http://www.joustin.com/apps/autodisk.xlsx

[ArmyBrat61]

Wow...Thanks Joustin....I can really use that.  :up:

[Jonnin]

you need a good scale, but the lee disk system is linear and its really easy to work with. 

 

What you do is put the disk in (any disk, any hole).  Drop the charge and weight it.  Do this many times to get an average weight -- say 10 times.  Larger disks are better as the error factor of your scale (say 0.1 grain or whatever your scale is capable of) is less significant in the final answer by doing that.

 

Once you have that, you can do the following...

 

    disk size             

 ---------------   X    desired powder weight  = desired disk

    weight                  

 

for example, from my load data. 

I measure as described and determine that accurate 5 gives 6.2 grains in disk 0.40.  But I wanted 5 grains for my load data.  What disk do I need??

 

 0.40 / 6.2 X 5.0 = .32

 

and from my notes disk .34  is very close to 5 grains and is the closest disk to .32.   Depending on how maxed out the load you wanted to create was, you can decide if you want to go up or down to get the closest disk match though.  If it were nearly a max loat at 5 grains, you would go down not UP, see?  If the max load is 5.5 or 6 or something, though, going up is OK.

 

You want to weigh it after doing the math, but if you did it right, you will have the closest disk.  And it beats the heck out of trying 5 or 6 holes to get the right one.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Jonnin

[BigK]

bump Edited October 30, 2013 by BigK

[ArmyBrat61]

Lots of great info......thanks gents...... :up: