Homeschooling

[MacGyver]

So, I know we've got several members that homeschool their kids, or have in the past. 

 

I saw this blog post from a friend on Facebook and part of it stood out to me.

 

http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/10/23/we-are-going-to-home-school-our-kids-but-thats-only-because-we-hate-education/

 

 

I’m done. Seriously. I’m not going to complain about these things anymore. I’m not going to complain about bureaucracy and propaganda in government education, for the same reason that I won’t write a scathing blog post admonishing water for being moist, or criticizing heroin for being addictive. I won’t criticize a thing for being exactly what it’s meant to be, and doing exactly what it’s designed to do. Instead, if it’s warranted, I’ll attack the thing in it’s entirety. See, when you take something that is bad, and you randomly chastise a few of its essential parts and properties, you have succeeded only in perpetuating the myth that said parts can somehow be removed from the sum.

 

Mind you, I wish we'd take this approach more often when discussing matters of politics.  I'm interested in opinions here.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Grunt67]

Mac, I'll have to agree with his point, at least in general. When you give Gov. control over any part of

your life, you're going to lose something in exchange.

Just how much are you willing to lose?

[JWC]

He posts some good things. My wife always forwards them to me. I think we're gonna homeschool.

[GoneBallistic]

So, I know we've got several members that homeschool their kids, or have in the past. 

 

I saw this blog post from a friend on Facebook and part of it stood out to me.

 

http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/10/23/we-are-going-to-home-school-our-kids-but-thats-only-because-we-hate-education/

 

 

Mind you, I wish we'd take this approach more often when discussing matters of politics.  I'm interested in opinions here.

 

Thoughts?

I agree with you and the blogger. All too often we get tunnel vision on things that, in themselves, don't really matter.

 

My wife and I will be homeschooling as well. The more time that passes, the more appalling the indoctrination becomes. 

[peejman]

Well said. 

 

It's like nipping a few runners off the kudzu vine.  It may make you feel better, but you didn't really accomplish anything.

[maroonandwhite]

I agree with him on all accounts. We don't have kids yet but when we do they will be home schooled. We are working towards getting the bills paid off now so the wife won't have to work. I will take a less frivolous lifestyle with one income over someone else raising my kids all day every day.

 

I have joked with her that she can go to work and I'll home school! If that were to happen the kids would probably be really proficient with handguns but not so great at math.

[macville]

Let's put it this way... My dad was a Knox County Public school teacher and I was homeschooled the entire way through. My mom has been subbing in South FL for the past few years at what we'd call "good" schools and at least once a week she tells me that she's glad we are going to homeschool our girls when they get old enough. It's not only about what they are being taught as "education", but it's all the crap they are learning from the other kids. I want my kids to actually get a good education and not be corrupted by other kids so the decision is easy. Plus, they will turn out smarter:)

[Jonnin]

Well, the posts seem to follow an assumption that the government or society or "someone else" being responsible for teaching your kid is a bad thing.  Up to a point, I can agree, that may be the case.  But you take the not terribly uncommon issue of a kid that is significantly brighter than his parents.   I know a few kids like that, its maybe 10% of the population, and in some cases, the kid is still not a shining star, just average with dunce parental units.   So I have to ask, if you are gonna homeschool, and your kid turns out to be brighter than you, WHO is going to teach him/her?   If YOU never got past algebra 2 and the kid is ready for differential equations, for example?  If YOU never got past general science but the kid wants calculus based physics?  ETC.   School also teaches social interactions, however as an introvert I got little enough from that side of things and would have been fine without it.  SOME kids need social interactions, though, and homeschooling parents must find some way to fill this void for kids with such a personality.

 

Point is, some parents are simply not qualified to teach their kid past about the 8th grade tops.   Very few parents are capable of teaching a kid well enough to earn AP credit.   A significant % of parents could not teach a kid to get a very high SAT or ACT score, and if those parents took those tests, would not get very high score.  

 

---  there comes a point when *someone else who is qualified* needs to take over the job.  

If you make it private and fee based, then only the rich can go to school, making it difficult to break out of poverty.

If you make it public and free, as now, anyone can have a chance.

 

And society is occasionally rewarded when, rarely but now and again, a super bright kid makes it out of public school and accomplishes something great in a field of science or research or something.   If he could not have paid tuition for private schools early on, maybe it would not have happened.

 

I am not saying that public school is awesome.  I am just saying, there are very valid reasons for public school. I am not saying homeschooling is bad -- just that NOT ALL parents are qualified for it.  

[tnguy]

So I have to ask, if you are gonna homeschool, and your kid turns out to be brighter than you, WHO is going to teach him/her?   If YOU never got past algebra 2 and the kid is ready for differential equations, for example?  If YOU never got past general science but the kid wants calculus based physics?  ETC.   School also teaches social interactions, however as an introvert I got little enough from that side of things and would have been fine without it.  SOME kids need social interactions, though, and homeschooling parents must find some way to fill this void for kids with such a personality.

Here's a hint. Even in the teachers' books, the answers are in the back. Teachers are not supposed to be good at the subject they teach, they're just supposed to be able to teach well.

As for the social interactions, that's been long debunked. Only the most weirdest of homeschoolers don't encourage plenty of interaction with other kids. With that, it's better for kids to socialize with a mix of children and adults (which is what we hope they will learn to become) than the self-defining socialization of children only (especially when you consider some of those children).
 

If you make it public and free,

It's not free.


Not that there may not be some role for community provided schooling. What is out there at the moment though is of scarily variable quality. Let alone other factors like indoctrination. Edited October 25, 2013 by tnguy

[MacGyver]

Well, the posts seem to follow an assumption that the government or society or "someone else" being responsible for teaching your kid is a bad thing. Up to a point, I can agree, that may be the case. But you take the not terribly uncommon issue of a kid that is significantly brighter than his parents. I know a few kids like that, its maybe 10% of the population, and in some cases, the kid is still not a shining star, just average with dunce parental units. So I have to ask, if you are gonna homeschool, and your kid turns out to be brighter than you, WHO is going to teach him/her? If YOU never got past algebra 2 and the kid is ready for differential equations, for example? If YOU never got past general science but the kid wants calculus based physics? ETC. School also teaches social interactions, however as an introvert I got little enough from that side of things and would have been fine without it. SOME kids need social interactions, though, and homeschooling parents must find some way to fill this void for kids with such a personality.

Point is, some parents are simply not qualified to teach their kid past about the 8th grade tops. Very few parents are capable of teaching a kid well enough to earn AP credit. A significant % of parents could not teach a kid to get a very high SAT or ACT score, and if those parents took those tests, would not get very high score.

--- there comes a point when *someone else who is qualified* needs to take over the job.
If you make it private and fee based, then only the rich can go to school, making it difficult to break out of poverty.
If you make it public and free, as now, anyone can have a chance.

And society is occasionally rewarded when, rarely but now and again, a super bright kid makes it out of public school and accomplishes something great in a field of science or research or something. If he could not have paid tuition for private schools early on, maybe it would not have happened.

I am not saying that public school is awesome. I am just saying, there are very valid reasons for public school. I am not saying homeschooling is bad -- just that NOT ALL parents are qualified for it.

My wife leans towards this position as well. And, she's got a masters from Peabody in early childhood special education.

I think something that really is lacking in discussions like this sometimes is that raising/educating a child is a responsibility born by the parents first, the community second and the government when all else fails. So often, the first two are lacking, so can you really expect any school to pick up all the slack?

We're so blessed as a family with a great community. Our church, our friends and even our neighbors are all great. But, at the end of the day, my children are my responsibility. We will probably choose a private school as my kids get older, but I'm fairly certain that our kids would do okay in public school. We're not depending on them to pick up our slack.

[GoneBallistic]

Kids are very impressionable. If a child is spending the better part of the day being indoctrinated with propaganda by teachers and influenced by punk trash kids, it's hard to erase that in the few hours you have with them at home. I will probably homeschool my kids through middle school, then send them to a private or public school for their high school years, when they have a good foundation and can filter the good knowledge from the :poop: .

 

NOTE: I am in no way bashing TEACHERS in general. I am a product of the public school system and had some great teachers and some that weren't so good. The CURRICULUM is the problem, along with the liberal extremist teachers, which I hope are the minority.

[sigmtnman]

Anyone interested in this topic should check out John Taylor Gatto.

[Dane]

Since I'm on my ipad I'm not going to try to multi quote and edit a bunch of posts on here.

We started homeschooling last year our group of 4 boys (13,10,4,3). I will tell you I was the first one to raise objections against homeschooling based on the ability of my wife to teach our children and also on the social aspects. What I have come to discover is that even my average intelligence wife can handle teaching complex subjects to my above average intelligence children (my 13 year old could explain the different types of symbiotic relationships at 4 years old). The amazing thing in today's world is that the internet provides an immense amount of learning tools for areas that one may not be great at. When she struggles with a topic or just can't get the point across in a manner that works for the child we turn to the internet to find another way to explain it. If that doesn't work then there is a wonderful group of homeschooling parents in the area that we can turn to for help. This is not an endeavor that has to be conquered alone. Most areas have groups and even co ops to utilize the strengths of each individual in the group.

As for the social side. Well between church, scouts, and sports we have it covered without the problem kids.

The benefit is that we can cover material at a pace that I can be sure that my sons have learned what they need to know. That means if algebra comes easy then we don't have to dwell. If they are struggling with science we can work longer on it to be sure we have sufficient comprehension. And best of all we don't have to teach to the test.

And probably the best part is that I can go to work relaxed knowing that my kids teacher is armed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Jonnin]

Here's a hint. Even in the teachers' books, the answers are in the back. Teachers are not supposed to be good at the subject they teach, they're just supposed to be able to teach well.

As for the social interactions, that's been long debunked. Only the most weirdest of homeschoolers don't encourage plenty of interaction with other kids. With that, it's better for kids to socialize with a mix of children and adults (which is what we hope they will learn to become) than the self-defining socialization of children only (especially when you consider some of those children).
 

It's not free.


Not that there may not be some role for community provided schooling. What is out there at the moment though is of scarily variable quality. Let alone other factors like indoctrination.

 

So what if the answer is in the back?   If you can't explain it nor work it yourself, you can't teach it well either. 

 

Yes, some groups do social gatherings and such.  I am just pointing out that some kids prefer the daily interactions, and some hate it, most are in between and can get by with church once a week or something.   It varies, but some kids would be better off around others more often. 

 

Its free in that a poor kid can go no matter what money his parents have or don't have.  Obviously it is paid for via taxes etc.  So are the roads.  Some things are not socialism, they are infrastructure.  To me schools are closer to roads than welfare....  When I say it is free, I clearly meant no tuition which prevents the poor from attending.  I can think of a billionty things ahead of public schooling that I would consider to be a worse waste of my tax money.

 

And no, I am not happy with the current failed indoctrinazation "school" curriculum.  That is not the fault of the concept of public school vs home school, its a trickle down effect of our turning to communist government.  Fix the government, and the schools will be fixed by proxy, IMHO. 

[Jonnin]

Since I'm on my ipad I'm not going to try to multi quote and edit a bunch of posts on here.

We started homeschooling last year our group of 4 boys (13,10,4,3). I will tell you I was the first one to raise objections against homeschooling based on the ability of my wife to teach our children and also on the social aspects. What I have come to discover is that even my average intelligence wife can handle teaching complex subjects to my above average intelligence children (my 13 year old could explain the different types of symbiotic relationships at 4 years old). The amazing thing in today's world is that the internet provides an immense amount of learning tools for areas that one may not be great at. When she struggles with a topic or just can't get the point across in a manner that works for the child we turn to the internet to find another way to explain it. If that doesn't work then there is a wonderful group of homeschooling parents in the area that we can turn to for help. This is not an endeavor that has to be conquered alone. Most areas have groups and even co ops to utilize the strengths of each individual in the group.

As for the social side. Well between church, scouts, and sports we have it covered without the problem kids.

The benefit is that we can cover material at a pace that I can be sure that my sons have learned what they need to know. That means if algebra comes easy then we don't have to dwell. If they are struggling with science we can work longer on it to be sure we have sufficient comprehension. And best of all we don't have to teach to the test.

And probably the best part is that I can go to work relaxed knowing that my kids teacher is armed.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

I agree with all that --- homeschooling done right is awesome.  My point is, I doubt more than 10% of parents can pull it off for a variety of reasons. 

[tnguy]

So what if the answer is in the back?   If you can't explain it nor work it yourself, you can't teach it well either.

Many teachers get by. I can quite clearly remember teachers who were just about getting by, those who were just coasting. The main thing a teacher needs is interest in seeing the children they teach succeed. If you're homeschooling you're probably 90% there already. If you're a teacher, there's a good chance you've already given up.
 

Fix the government, and the schools will be fixed by proxy, IMHO.

More likely it is the other way around IMO.

"Barack Hussein Obama. Mmmm, mmmm, mmmm"

[JWC]

My wife puts it like this: we can follow a syllabus as easy as a teacher. Actually we will probably do a homeschool co-op type program. I probably wouldn't be such an asshole if I hadn't been socialized.

And maroonandwhite your plan and ours is the same.. We got out of debt, my wife stays home, we shop smart, and try to live frugally with the same goal in mind as you. And it's funny even though she doesnt work it seems like we have more money now.

[Guest TresOsos]

I'm fortunate that my kids are grown and passed through the public education system before it got as bad as it is today.

Not to say that it didn't have it's moments and many hours were spent around the dinner table undoing the days

disinformation and indoctrination of the day.

 

If I had kids today, I would have to home school, there is no way I'd put my children in public school today.

[Chucktshoes]

And no, I am not happy with the current failed indoctrinazation "school" curriculum.  That is not the fault of the concept of public school vs home school, its a trickle down effect of our turning to communist government.  Fix the government, and the schools will be fixed by proxy, IMHO. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that statement. In fact, I would second this advice from Sigmtnman and read the work of John Taylor Gatto before I said something like that with any certainty. Public schools are doing exactly what they were designed to do and helping make a complete, thinking person ain't it.

 

 

Read "The Underground History of Education" here.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[Will H]

The thing that really got me was when I took our 5 year old to the range to "earn" a bit of money picking up brass for me.  She had a great time and got to shoot my .357 levergun from my knee.  After it was all over my wife told her not to talk about it in school. 

 

This kept going thru my mind:

 

Teacher:  What did you do this weekend?

Girl:  Had fun with daddy.

Teacher:  Oh?  What did you do?

Girl:  I can't tell you.

 

Yeah.  That could have been a world of trouble.  We started homeschooling this year, and we now live on a single income.  It makes it hard when you see the way others live, but our baby girl is worth it.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Will H

[runco]

There were many reasons I moved to a rural area many years ago. local school is one!  Though my kids may have to watch out for dueling banjo families, missing teeth friends, and some mountain dialect, along with pure poverty,  my kids are likely the only kids that pay for their lunches with real cash, my kids do not have to watch out for thugs, left wing teachers, kids that have rolled around in the tacklebox and alike.  Rural schools are filled with teachers like what I remember when I grew up, some even still say open prayers, have bibles on their desk, and most still say pledge allegiance.  Most of the teachers are in our local church.   Heck I even heard of kid bringing a pocket knife to school in the year 2013, though he was caught and the knife taken away, he was not expelled, and the knife was returned to the parents.  Imagine that!  So shhhhhh don't tell anyone, rural public schools is where its at!

[mav]

  If YOU never got past algebra 2 and the kid is ready for differential equations, for example?  If YOU never got past general science but the kid wants calculus based physics?  ETC.  

 

I understand what you are saying, but aren't your examples a little extreme?  I didn't hit cal based physics until my sophomore year of college, and it was the first semester of my junior year before diffy.  The sad part is that I took three semesters of calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations, and I don't remember the first thing about them.  I wonder if there are any high school kids actually taking those courses.?

[Lumber_Jack]

I understand what you are saying, but aren't your examples a little extreme? I didn't hit cal based physics until my sophomore year of college, and it was the first semester of my junior year before diffy. The sad part is that I took three semesters of calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations, and I don't remember the first thing about them. I wonder if there are any high school kids actually taking those courses.?

I went through calculus in high school. The furtherest I think most over achieving high schoolers( at least in my town) went through clac 2. But none through 3D clac or differential equations.

I honestly think my wife and I solution will have to be private school. She will be the bread winner and I'm not sure I have the patience for early elementary education. Upper levels I could deal with, but still it's not exactly my forte. I will do everything in my power to afford this option. For many it's an unachievable goal simply do to finances.

[Hershmeister]

We,ve homeschooled our kids from day 1.

I was equally concerned with how we would tackle complex subjects once we got past the three "r's".

What i found was that as time went on, technology and the internet opened up amazing doors. Our children are able to tale classes taught by college professors who supplement their income via online teaching. And now universities have figured out there an incredible business opportunity here - my oldest is taking an AP Biology class through Johns Hopkins - all online.

The "socialziation" argument is bunk - plenty of activities available locally to plug into.

The 19th/20th century teaching model is obaolete. Why ahould where you live dictate WHO will teach you? Clearly there are better teachers than others, which is why the teachers unions are opposed to online solutions.

Universal education is critical in a democratic society - however, the notion that it must be delivered Publicly exclusively is crapola.

School vouchers would free poor students from being forced to attend schools populated with bad elements, and it would foster the shift to a 21st century delivery model of education

[Slasher]

There are so many good posts here.  We moved out to Collierville for the schools and while it was fine for my stepson all the way through high school, his father would never let him be home schooled, we have decided to home school my son. A lot of the posts about one income families are spot on, it is tough at times.  I'm lucky in that the wife doesn't care about keeping up with our friends, where husband and wife both work and live in really nice neighborhoods and have expensive cars.  We are much more practical than that. 

 

We ran in to the same issues with teachers that don't care.  Second grade was a complete waste to my son.  His teacher was older and knew she couldn't be fired.  He was so bored and they accomplished so little that year.  She wouldn't even let them draw or be creative because of some goofy rule in her classroom.  He's in 5th grade now but his 4th grade class had around 27 kids in his class and with the city/county school merger his school was picking up another 200 students from the Memphis city schools.  At that point my wife looked in to it and we have never looked back.  Of course my wife is very smart and she enjoys these type of things(grammar nazi, loves to figure out problems, is organized) so I am blessed in that respect.

 

I know this isn't for everyone.  The kid has to be up for it and the parent doing the teaching has to be prepared also but if you are lucky enough to have both of them able to then it is a great thing, especially after reading information about the common core being taught now.