HCP question about colleges

[orientalexpress]

I know you can't carry on the MTSU campus or any for that matter. However when I go to visit my girlfriend is it prohibitive to leave it locked in the trunk? What about where I park that's right across the street from campus? Is that considered "campus" where the general student parking is?

[strickj]

Your car is not owned by the campus

[orientalexpress]

Also do you need anything special to carry an air taser? I'm either going to get one of those or a kimber guardian for her to carry with her on campus?

[Guest bkelm18]

AFAIK, no license is required to carry a taser. The school may see that differently though.

[orientalexpress]

AFAIK, no license is required to carry a taser. The school may see that differently though.

I called the MTSU PD and they had no idea.

[Guest superslacker]

The parking lot is campus. They will take the gun and expel anyone associated with it from school if they catch you with it at minimum.

[Falcon1]

A non-student adult can indeed have a firearm on campus, under these terms:

TCA 39-17-1309 © (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property. [emphasis added]

Subsection ( is not a problem because you are not "carry[ing]...with the intent to go armed...." You have locked it in your vehicle (a gun safe or trunk).

IANAL, but this is my understanding, confirmed by the Tennessee Tech chief of police. You simply secure the firearm before you drive onto campus, and do not get it out until you are off campus.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Falcon1

[Guest 270win]

The above poster is correct about it not being an offense to just possess a firearm in your vehicle on school grounds as long as you are not a student. You cannot have 'intent to go armed'. If you have intent to go armed, you would need to fall under the exceptions, such as picking off and dropping off someone at a school. The best way to avoid the whole intent to go armed deal and be able to legally possess is put it unloaded in the trunk while you have your car parked on school grounds.

[orientalexpress]

Well I don't go to school there but my girlfriend lives on campus, most times I'm not going back home before I go see her, or pick her up. Unfortunately I'm a law abiding citizen and don't wish to break the laws, but the only laws this affects is the us.

[SpacemanSpiff]

You cannot have 'intent to go armed'. If you have intent to go armed, you would need to fall under the exceptions, such as picking off

Picking Off someone is an exception?

Getting out of ones car to go to the truck to disarm yourself seems that you would bring attention to yourself. Either you get jumped when you disarm or you come back to your car and find it got broken into.

[ioerror001]

It will never be questioned if you leave it alone and keep your mouth shut, however don't intend to carry it or you will get in deep .....

[Falcon1]

You cannot have 'intent to go armed'. If you have intent to go armed, you would need to fall under the exceptions, such as picking off and dropping off someone at a school.

The thing that worries me about this is the "intent to go armed" part. I did a Lexis-Nexus search of the phrase in TCA, and I did not find a legal, precise definition of what it means. I know what it means from a common-sense viewpoint; but, like justice, never confuse the law and common sense.

Anyone? Any lawyers that can chime in?

[Oh Shoot]

The thing that worries me about this is the "intent to go armed" part. I did a Lexis-Nexus search of the phrase in TCA, and I did not find a legal, precise definition of what it means. I know what it means from a common-sense viewpoint; but, like justice, never confuse the law and common sense.

Anyone? Any lawyers that can chime in?

I don't think you need to be a lawyer.

"intent to go armed" is simply any situation where an adult possesses a gun unlawfully -- pretty much has to be on one's person or in one's vehicle. (I can't think of any other place one can unlawfully possess a weapon with intent to go armed, but maybe there is one -- luggage, maybe).

It does not require a premeditated "intent to harm a particular person" to be a violation.

Although it is not spelled out anywhere specifically, the weapon seems to need to be either loaded, or ammunition "in close proximity" ("firearm readily accessible for use" is another definition I've seen); but you can probably still be charged with "unlawful possession" for concealing an unloaded firearm with no ammo on your person.

'Course, you can be CHARGED with damn near anything. A lawyer friend of mine has handled several DUI cases where the guy blew LESS than the legal limit, but was charged anyway.

- OS

Edited September 3, 2008 by OhShoot

[Falcon1]

Okay, a person has a locking gun safe in their car. Before they drive onto campus, they remove their firearm (which they are lawfully carrying because they have an HCP) and lock it in the gun safe. The firearm is a semi-automatic pistol, in which they leave the magazine, so it is still loaded. They carry in condition one, topped off (one in the chamber, full magazine). The loaded spare magazine is locked in the gun safe as well.

While they are on campus, the firearm and the magazine (loaded) stay locked in the safe. They do not touch them, they do not allow anyone else to touch them. They do not unlock the safe and rearm themselves until they are off campus once again.

Are they legal, or not? Despite the fact that the firearm and all ammunition are locked in the car, do they still meet the level of "intent to go armed?"

That is the problem. Is it spelled out anywhere, or does this "exemption" our wonderful legislators say they created for us law-abiding folks really mean nothing practical and useful, and one is still likely to be charged (yes I understand that one can be charged with anything, but likely to be charged)? Are we still just left with national "peaceable journey" criteria?

This may be splitting hairs, but people depend on this stuff. Or should everyone just carry a revolver, lock the revolver in the gun safe (unloaded), and throw the cartridges and speed loaders in the trunk?

[Oh Shoot]

Okay, a person has a locking gun safe in their car. Before they drive onto campus, they remove their firearm (which they are lawfully carrying because they have an HCP) and lock it in the gun safe. The firearm is a semi-automatic pistol, in which they leave the magazine, so it is still loaded. They carry in condition one, topped off (one in the chamber, full magazine). The loaded spare magazine is locked in the gun safe as well.

While they are on campus, the firearm and the magazine (loaded) stay locked in the safe. They do not touch them, they do not allow anyone else to touch them. They do not unlock the safe and rearm themselves until they are off campus once again.

Are they legal, or not? Despite the fact that the firearm and all ammunition are locked in the car, do they still meet the level of "intent to go armed?"

That is the problem. Is it spelled out anywhere, or does this "exemption" our wonderful legislators say they created for us law-abiding folks really mean nothing practical and useful, and one is still likely to be charged (yes I understand that one can be charged with anything, but likely to be charged)? Are we still just left with national "peaceable journey" criteria?

This may be splitting hairs, but people depend on this stuff. Or should everyone just carry a revolver, lock the revolver in the gun safe (unloaded), and throw the cartridges and speed loaders in the trunk?

I found no AG opinion on anything this specific with a search. MY opinion (and I'd wager the majority one here also) is that the gun and the ammo should be as "separated as possible", regardless of the safe being involved.

Gun in passenger area, ammo in trunk. If no trunk (pickup or van), gun in locked safe, ammo elsewhere behind seat, not in the safe.

Pretty much same advice for national parks, so far.

I'm not sure a lawyer could give better advice. The likelihood of being charged given any given combination of your gun/ammo "separation" will be determined by the LEO. But best to have shown at least a "most separated as possible" effort, even if he's an ahole and charges you anyway.

The reason I'm even involved with this thread to the extent I am, is that I me my own self was charged with going armed about 15 years ago. The situation in brief was: I had just picked up a Ruger revolver from my ex inlaws. Hadn't even seen the gun in a couple of years, had left it with my exwife until the day she didn't need it for protection out in the country anymore. They gave me the gun back with a bunch of other odds and ends stuff, some unclaimed xmas presents, clothes, towels, etc. About 5 bags full of stuff. All in the back seat. The gun was unloaded, maybe 20 .357 shells in a small Whitman's candy box. The shells and the gun were not even in the same bag. I didn't even think a thing about it. Traffic stop minutes from leaving their home, suspicion of DUI, one thing led to another, car search, charged with going armed also.

The going armed charge was thrown out by judge on first hearing in two minutes flat.

And I never got the Ruger back. (long story).

Of course, even though it's probably not technically pertinent as a defense to the "on campus" statutes, having a carry permit might mitigate the circumstances, too, if the worst happened.

- OS

Edited September 4, 2008 by OhShoot

[Oh Shoot]

... Or should everyone just carry a revolver, lock the revolver in the gun safe (unloaded), and throw the cartridges and speed loaders in the trunk?

To reiterate my long opinion in a word:

Yes.

- OS

[Fallguy]

Okay, a person has a locking gun safe in their car. Before they drive onto campus, they remove their firearm (which they are lawfully carrying because they have an HCP) and lock it in the gun safe. The firearm is a semi-automatic pistol, in which they leave the magazine, so it is still loaded. They carry in condition one, topped off (one in the chamber, full magazine). The loaded spare magazine is locked in the gun safe as well.

While they are on campus, the firearm and the magazine (loaded) stay locked in the safe. They do not touch them, they do not allow anyone else to touch them. They do not unlock the safe and rearm themselves until they are off campus once again.

Are they legal, or not? Despite the fact that the firearm and all ammunition are locked in the car, do they still meet the level of "intent to go armed?"

IMO that is 100% legal, but IANAL. As long as the car is locked I don't even think the gun has to be in a safe. Also I see no need to seperate the gun and the ammo. Again IANAL

[Guest MrsS]

I had to go to a week long seminar at MTSU....what I did was lock it in a lockbox and placed it in the trunk of my car.....before I got on campus.

I know a few posts here mentioned the exception to the rule is if your picking up or dropping off a student. Where can I find that rule? I drop off/pick up my young son (staying in the car) and just want to make sure I am in the clear if a situation should arise. Thanks.

[Fallguy]

I had to go to a week long seminar at MTSU....what I did was lock it in a lockbox and placed it in the trunk of my car.....before I got on campus.

I know a few posts here mentioned the exception to the rule is if your picking up or dropping off a student. Where can I find that rule? I drop off/pick up my young son (staying in the car) and just want to make sure I am in the clear if a situation should arise. Thanks.

T.C.A. 39-17-1310 Affirmative defense to carrying weapons on school property.

It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under § 39-17-1309(a)-(d) that the person's behavior was in strict compliance with the requirements of one (1) of the following classifications:

(4)

A person entering the property for the sole purpose of delivering or picking up passengers and who does not remove, utilize or allow to be removed or utilized any weapon from the vehicle.

[Guest db99wj]

I have been to the Holiday Inn that is beside the University of Memphis campus several times and just found out that it is on campus, it is part of the "Hospitality Degree Program"........

I will secure my handgun in my vehicle and proceed as normal.