My #%&$@ Spike's Tactical AR

[East_TN_Patriot]

A couple of years ago, I built an AR carbine using a Spike's lower, LPK, Enhanced Battle Trigger, buffer assembly, and a complete Spike's LE upper with Spike's BCG.  The rifle has been having pretty consistent failures to feed since I got it.  The round gets hung up about half way into the chamber and the edges of the ramp will dig into the cartridge case so hard that it will dig in and leave deep gouges and shave off brass.  This appears to happen when feeding from the right side of the magazine and it does it no matter what ammo or mags I put into it.  Out of 100 rounds, I will get a couple of these failures.  I sent the upper back to Spike's and they returned it several weeks later with no explanation of what, if any, work was done.  I took it out and shot it, and had the same problems.  I emailed them again, and never got a reply.  As is typically the case with these sorts of things, life got in the way and that problem got pushed to the back burner.  

Fast forward a few months to today.  I cleaned and lubed everything, double-checked the bolt carrier and bolt (including the gas rings to make sure they are staggered), and went off to the range.  I fired 40 rounds and had two of these failures.  I've sent another email to Spike's customer service, but I'm not holding out much hope with them.  It's annoying because I put what I thought were high-quality parts into that build and the budget build I did using a blem LRB lower, blem PSA upper, basic PSA lower parts kit, and a basic R Guns BCG runs like a top.

 

My immediate thought is that the feed ramp is not machined properly, but it looks OK to my untrained eye.  I wonder if the bolt carrier is not moving to the rear properly and not stripping the round like it should.  I have the heavy buffer installed.  Could that cause such a problem? Any thoughts on how I can fix this problem?  

[Glock30]

Have you tried swapping out parts between rifles? Perhaps pull out the Spike's BCG and put it in the PSA upper and vice versa. Maybe even swap the uppers around on the lowers and see if you can replicate the problem.

 

If you don't have them already, Magpul dummy rounds are great for dry firing/chambering for just such an occasion.

[Oh Shoot]

Why did you put heavy buffer in?

 

What angle does it throw brass?

 

Does bolt always lock open on empty mag?

 

- OS

Edited October 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[East_TN_Patriot]

Why did you put heavy buffer in?

 

What angle does it throw brass?

 

Does bolt always lock open on empty mag?

 

- OS

1) Because I read that it would help lessen recoil and help with faster follow-up shots (I originally planned this for 3-gun)

 

2) About the 4 o'clock and roughly 3 or 4 feet away.  No stovepipes.

 

3) Yes, it has always locked back.  

[East_TN_Patriot]

Have you tried swapping out parts between rifles? Perhaps pull out the Spike's BCG and put it in the PSA upper and vice versa. Maybe even swap the uppers around on the lowers and see if you can replicate the problem.

 

If you don't have them already, Magpul dummy rounds are great for dry firing/chambering for just such an occasion.

I have not since I just finished that other build a couple of days ago.  That Spike's was my only complete AR. 

[mikegideon]

A couple of years ago, I built an AR carbine using a Spike's lower, LPK, Enhanced Battle Trigger, buffer assembly, and a complete Spike's LE upper with Spike's BCG.  The rifle has been having pretty consistent failures to feed since I got it.  The round gets hung up about half way into the chamber and the edges of the ramp will dig into the cartridge case so hard that it will dig in and leave deep gouges and shave off brass.  This appears to happen when feeding from the right side of the magazine and it does it no matter what ammo or mags I put into it.  Out of 100 rounds, I will get a couple of these failures.  I sent the upper back to Spike's and they returned it several weeks later with no explanation of what, if any, work was done.  I took it out and shot it, and had the same problems.  I emailed them again, and never got a reply.  As is typically the case with these sorts of things, life got in the way and that problem got pushed to the back burner.  

Fast forward a few months to today.  I cleaned and lubed everything, double-checked the bolt carrier and bolt (including the gas rings to make sure they are staggered), and went off to the range.  I fired 40 rounds and had two of these failures.  I've sent another email to Spike's customer service, but I'm not holding out much hope with them.  It's annoying because I put what I thought were high-quality parts into that build and the budget build I did using a blem LRB lower, blem PSA upper, basic PSA lower parts kit, and a basic R Guns BCG runs like a top.

 

My immediate thought is that the feed ramp is not machined properly, but it looks OK to my untrained eye.  I wonder if the bolt carrier is not moving to the rear properly and not stripping the round like it should.  I have the heavy buffer installed.  Could that cause such a problem? Any thoughts on how I can fix this problem?  

 

Take it to Predator and give them a few bucks to make it run. It could be a ganked up barrel extension, which requires a real smith.

[TMF]

Are there feed ramps on the lower? How does it match up on the barrel extension? Have you googled your issue specific to Spikes uppers of that make? I'm sure if it's systemic there will be an Internet trail as to the problem and solution.

[Oh Shoot]

1) Because I read that it would help lessen recoil and help with faster follow-up shots (I originally planned this for 3-gun)

 

2) About the 4 o'clock and roughly 3 or 4 feet away.  No stovepipes.

 

3) Yes, it has always locked back.  

 

Well, even though the 4:00 is right on, first thing to try is to just use normal carbine weight buffer. Could be is running on edge of being undergassed with the heavier buffer on less than full power rounds or something. Usually the opposite problem from the average maker, but could be Spikes actually used the correct gas port size.

 

Free to try, eh?

 

- OS

Edited October 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[mikegideon]

Are there feed ramps on the lower? How does it match up on the barrel extension? Have you googled your issue specific to Spikes uppers of that make? I'm sure if it's systemic there will be an Internet trail as to the problem and solution.

 

Ain't no feed ramps in a lower, and Spikes knows way better than to mismatch the ramps between the upper receiver and the barrel extension (I hope). 

 

http://www.predatorcustomshop.com/

 

Seriously. Or, make Spike's fix it.

Edited October 22, 2013 by mikegideon

[East_TN_Patriot]

Here are some pics I took way back when so you can see what it does:

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[mikegideon]

Why did you put heavy buffer in?

 

What angle does it throw brass?

 

Does bolt always lock open on empty mag?

 

- OS

 

You're aware that Colt doesn't ship any M4 with a carbine weight buffer, right? An H or H2 shouldn't cause any problem with carbine gas, and probably not an H3 either. Just saying that a heavy buffer probably isn't causing the problem, since a carbine buffer is really too light.

[mikegideon]

Here are some pics I took way back when so you can see what it does:

 

 

 

 

Are you using PMAGS? 

[East_TN_Patriot]

Ain't no feed ramps in a lower, and Spikes knows way better than to mismatch the ramps between the upper receiver and the barrel extension (I hope). 

 

http://www.predatorcustomshop.com/

 

Seriously. Or, make Spike's fix it.

I reckon I'll have to unless one of you more knowledgeable folks can give me some sort of "smoking gun" that I can use to get Spike's to eat the shipping.  I already paid for one return trip to Apopka. 

[East_TN_Patriot]

Are you using PMAGS? 

 

Typically PMags, but it also happens with mil-spec aluminum.

[mikegideon]

Typically PMags, but it also happens with mil-spec aluminum.

 

The only reason I ask... I've seen GI mags grab the round because of burrs on the feed lips. If it's doing it with PMAGs, it ain't a mag problem. The guys at Predator are great. They will eliminate your expletives :)

Edited October 22, 2013 by mikegideon

[Jonnin]

it looks to me like you have a minor burr on the feed guides or whatever they are called, I suppose dual feed ramps?  I mean, the evidence supports this... only happens from one side, so its not a recoil problem else it would be both sides (??). 

 

I am very tempted to tell you to feed it a sackfull of steel ammo to see if that knocks it loose or smooths it out, or if you feel so inclined try to hit it a pass or 2 with a very fine file on a long stick but that is a hard area to work on.  If you try to DIY, be careful, maybe take a soft dowl rod and try to locate the problem by feel THEN if you find something that is rough/sharp you might work it...

 

I am not a super ar expert but I would at least see what you can see on that one ramp.  I dont even know if the ramp or guide is part of the barrel/chamber or what it attaches to.  I just know its there and sounds like a rough spot.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jonnin

[Oh Shoot]

You're aware that Colt doesn't ship any M4 with a carbine weight buffer, right? An H or H2 shouldn't cause any problem with carbine gas, and probably not an H3 either. Just saying that a heavy buffer probably isn't causing the problem, since a carbine buffer is really too light.

 

Yes, I know it's probably not that, but weird things happen. Gas port or block could be a bit undersized,  that extra weight could figure. Just like puter problem, what changed?

 

I'd just always try the easy free things first, put orig buffer back, and then swap BCG, since he has another AR.

 

And as per Jonnin, sure a feed ramp burr could do it, but that should be pretty obvious?

 

- OS

[East_TN_Patriot]

it looks to me like you have a minor burr on the feed guides or whatever they are called, I suppose dual feed ramps?  I mean, the evidence supports this... only happens from one side, so its not a recoil problem else it would be both sides (??). 

 

I am very tempted to tell you to feed it a sackfull of steel ammo to see if that knocks it loose or smooths it out, or if you feel so inclined try to hit it a pass or 2 with a very fine file on a long stick but that is a hard area to work on.  If you try to DIY, be careful, maybe take a soft dowl rod and try to locate the problem by feel THEN if you find something that is rough/sharp you might work it...

 

I am not a super ar expert but I would at least see what you can see on that one ramp.  I dont even know if the ramp or guide is part of the barrel/chamber or what it attaches to.  I just know its there and sounds like a rough spot.

That's my suspicion, but it would have to be more than a burr.  We are talking that the gouges are deep and severe enough that I'm a little worried that it will puncture the case.  

Here is the best pic I could get of the feed ramp.  Pardon the dirt; I didn't clean it from my range trip today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[TMF]

Ain't no feed ramps in a lower, .

Baaahhhhh, you know what I meant!

[mikegideon]

Yes, I know it's probably not that, but weird things happen. Gas port or block could be a bit undersized,  that extra weight could figure. Just like puter problem, what changed?

 

I'd just always try the easy free things first, put orig buffer back, and then swap BCG, since he has another AR.

 

And as per Jonnin, sure a feed ramp burr could do it, but that should be pretty obvious?

 

- OS

 

Spikes has their own heavy buffer, that's between an H and an H2. They're not gonna under gas one of their assembled uppers due to incompetence, at least. Obviously, there's a QC issue somewhere, but you can't grab the wrong gas block if there isn't one in the bin. This thing could be ugly enough that it needs a new barrel extension. You don't want bubba, even THIS bubba doing that work.

[mikegideon]

That's my suspicion, but it would have to be more than a burr.  We are talking that the gouges are deep and severe enough that I'm a little worried that it will puncture the case.  

Here is the best pic I could get of the feed ramp.  Pardon the dirt; I didn't clean it from my range trip today.
 

OK... I'm trying to attach a pic, but it's not working all of a sudden...

 

 

Looks like m4 ramps in the receiver and the extension. Also looks like the right ramp might be grabbing some brass. You need a pro. I'm betting the receiver or extension is out of spec.

Edited October 22, 2013 by mikegideon

[East_TN_Patriot]

Looks like m4 ramps in the receiver and the extension. Also looks like the right ramp might be grabbing some brass. You need a pro. I'm betting the receiver or extension is out of spec.

 

So send this back to Spike's or just take it to Predator and eat the cost?  And yes, I can actually see little bits of brass all over that side where it's shaving it off.

Edited October 22, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[Oh Shoot]

That's my suspicion, but it would have to be more than a burr.  We are talking that the gouges are deep and severe enough that I'm a little worried that it will puncture the case. 

 

Well the case gouges are from the barrel extension lugs when the round is jammed partially in at an angle against them, not from a burr. Trick is to find why that's happening.

 

- OS

[mikegideon]

Well the case gouges are from the barrel extension lugs when the round is jammed partially in at an angle against them, not from a burr. Trick is to find why that's happening.

 

- OS

 

Right. Bolt has lots of force, and the extension has sharp points. If it doesn't go into the chamber, it's gonna ruin the brass.

[mikegideon]

So send this back to Spike's or just take it to Predator and eat the cost?  And yes, I can actually see little bits of brass all over that side where it's shaving it off.

 

I'm not thinking Predator will charge you a lot. I'm just pretty sure they'll fix it. I'm sure Spike's will too, but a little less sure. You put a lot into that gun. Personally, I would take it to the guys that can make it live up to your expectations without any more suffering.

 

Call Gordon. He knows those guys, and can probably introduce you