Should we legalize long gun carry?

[Jonnin]

I voted yes but I think it needs to be a total relaxation down to the word weapon.  That is, I would see *all* handheld weapons be made legal to carry (prefer: no permit needed).  Whether its a black rifle, AK pistol, nunchucks, switchblade, pepper spray, brass knuckles, sword, axe, you name it, all should be legal.   There is no reason for melee weapons to be illegal in a society that has concealed pistols on every 10th person.    And the penalty for ANY violence against another person should be so stiff that no one even THINKS of harming another person with any of these or other weapons or even unarmed.   The act is the crime, punish the act.  The tools used are of no importance.

[Refleks]

An AR-15 pistol would be legal under the law wouldn't it?

[dcloudy777]

It shouldn't be against the law to walk around in public with anything unless it's stolen.  

[Guest confidence]

Something I just thought of...A lot of the arguments against long gun carry suddenly become murky once we realize that it's currently not illegal in TN to carry a loaded AR-15 pistol or AK-47 pistol down the street if one has an HCP.

 

 

Way ahead of you on this one. When hiking or camping I take my AK pistol and keep it loaded in my backpack. Totally legal, but if it was an SBR it's a crime.

 

 

An AR-15 pistol would be legal under the law wouldn't it?

 

Yes an AR-15 pistol would be legal to carry on your person in public IF you have an HCP. That's because an AR-15 pistol is a handgun and the permit is a Handgun Carry Permit.

[Guest Hound]

Call me an absolutist if you want, but I can't get past the "shall not be infringed" part that follows "the right to keep and bear arms".

Agreed on this.  It might be odd at first to see but it would just become life after awhile.  Same as walking around while on deployment.  Everyone has one and they really arnt even noticed anymore.  And as far as criminals being able to hide in plain site think about this carefully... if YOU were going to commit a violent crime or rob some place... would you really do it if EVERYONE was that well armed?  You might get a little more element of surprise but would not last long after that.  I vote yes.

[Jonnin]

An AR-15 pistol would be legal under the law wouldn't it?

 

So long as it IS a pistol, then yes you can carry it same as any handgun.  Its easy to mess up and have a SBR which is NOT ok, though, so if you go there you have to be very careful.   I sometimes have one in my car if I am forced to go to a very unfriendly area.

[Oh Shoot]

So long as it IS a pistol, then yes you can carry it same as any handgun.  Its easy to mess up and have a SBR which is NOT ok, though, so if you go there you have to be very careful. ...

 

Easy? As long as you don't possess a stock or vertical forward grip at same time that have no legal use, you won't mess up.

 

Btw, TCA defines "handgun" as having 12" barrel or less, so there are federally legal AR pistols that I suppose would not be considered such under TN law if push were to come to shove.

 

- OS

[Guest confidence]

I'm really happy for the turnout on this poll! It's interesting to read each of your opinions... Thank you! Keep 'em coming!

[Guest ThePunisher]

Easy? As long as you don't possess a stock or vertical forward grip at same time that have no legal use, you won't mess up.

Btw, TCA defines "handgun" as having 12" barrel or less, so there are federally legal AR pistols that I suppose would not be considered such under TN law if push were to come to shove.

- OS

The Sig Sauer stabilizing brace actually looks like a stock, but is legal at least for the time being. I would think carrying an AR15 pistol around on your body would draw undue notice from LEA. Edited October 23, 2013 by ThePunisher

[Jonnin]

Easy? As long as you don't possess a stock or vertical forward grip at same time that have no legal use, you won't mess up.

 

Btw, TCA defines "handgun" as having 12" barrel or less, so there are federally legal AR pistols that I suppose would not be considered such under TN law if push were to come to shove.

 

- OS

 

Right.  TN law also says it has to be a one handed weapon, which is more or less undefined but shooting most of these with one hand is just barely possible due to the excessive weight and a skilled lawyer can probably argue that shooting it one handed is not practical.  Also they measure from the end, so if your flash hider bumps the length up too much, its a SBR again, as I understand it (not sure but would not risk a total over 12!). 

 

On top of this several defendants have not had a great deal of success fighting the system that their guns are in fact pistols.  That gangsta a year or 2 back, for example, was in the right (gun was a pistol) but the court forced him to sell it anyway (or face ongoing legal harassment and expenses etc).  LE has had at least 3 failed lawsuits over waving such weapons around and in spite of his antics and crappy attitude, he was not breaking the letter of the law.  Point is, if the law/courts want to give you hell about carrying such a weapon, they probably can get away with it.   (LE's failed suits were counters though, he was trying to sue over LEO behavior so it was not totally related to the firearm and law specifics -- however the LEOs were unable to unravel the wording of the law in order to determine legal vs not legal so line between handgun and other is at least a little blurry in terms of the court system and LEO interactions...). 

 

So, again, its legal, but you may have a legal fight on your hands if you do something erratic with it like strap it across your back openly and wander around town acting idiotic.  Even untouched, stock configuration sold to you AS A PISTOL you could, if you were scaring the sheep, get into an expensive brush with the law.  

[Guest confidence]

Right.  TN law also says it has to be a one handed weapon, which is more or less undefined but shooting most of these with one hand is just barely possible due to the excessive weight and a skilled lawyer can probably argue that shooting it one handed is not practical.  Also they measure from the end, so if your flash hider bumps the length up too much, its a SBR again, as I understand it (not sure but would not risk a total over 12!). 

 

On top of this several defendants have not had a great deal of success fighting the system that their guns are in fact pistols.  That gangsta a year or 2 back, for example, was in the right (gun was a pistol) but the court forced him to sell it anyway (or face ongoing legal harassment and expenses etc).  LE has had at least 3 failed lawsuits over waving such weapons around and in spite of his antics and crappy attitude, he was not breaking the letter of the law.  Point is, if the law/courts want to give you hell about carrying such a weapon, they probably can get away with it.   (LE's failed suits were counters though, he was trying to sue over LEO behavior so it was not totally related to the firearm and law specifics -- however the LEOs were unable to unravel the wording of the law in order to determine legal vs not legal so line between handgun and other is at least a little blurry in terms of the court system and LEO interactions...). 

 

So, again, its legal, but you may have a legal fight on your hands if you do something erratic with it like strap it across your back openly and wander around town acting idiotic.  Even untouched, stock configuration sold to you AS A PISTOL you could, if you were scaring the sheep, get into an expensive brush with the law.  

 

A certain activist who claims to have a Rate-Of-Speed-Faster-Than-Others comes to mind and seems to embody this very post. ;)

[Oh Shoot]

Right.  TN law also says it has to be a one handed weapon, which is more or less undefined but shooting most of these with one hand is just barely possible due to the excessive weight and a skilled lawyer can probably argue that shooting it one handed is not practical.  Also they measure from the end, so if your flash hider bumps the length up too much, its a SBR again, as I understand it (not sure but would not risk a total over 12!).

Well, federal law has same "designed to be fired with one hand", but no barreled length specified. But federally, a muzzle device does not count in either barrel length or overall length unless it is permanently attached, and TCA is silent on that specific detail.
 

So, again, its legal, but you may have a legal fight on your hands if you do something erratic with it like strap it across your back openly and wander around town acting idiotic.  Even untouched, stock configuration sold to you AS A PISTOL you could, if you were scaring the sheep, get into an expensive brush with the law.

 

Certainly anything is possible, but without direct contradictory TCA reference, federal interpretation would almost certainly prevail. But of course as you say,  worst case only after much hassle and money to defend yourself.

 

- OS

Edited October 23, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Jonnin]

The Sig Sauer stabilizing brace actually looks like a stock, but is legal at least for the time being. I would think carrying an AR15 pistol around on your body would draw undue notice from LEA.

 

The kel tec uses forward rather than backward force.  Its a 1 point (?) sling, and you push forward against the sling for stability, almost as good as a stock but legal on a pistol apparently.   I prefer to use the normal capacity mags for a forend grip, having tried a lot of different things, that works best for me.  The sling works well so long as you are standing up....  If I ever *needed* the thing I would be prone or crouched or something I hope....  you could also rig a sling to do the hand wrap sling trick as a forend grip.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Jonnin

[whitewolf001]

Call me an absolutist if you want, but I can't get past the "shall not be infringed" part that follows "the right to keep and bear arms".

 

My line of thinking EXACTLY!

[JAB]

Well I actually voted no to this because the thought of having a bunch of people walking around on the sidewalks and in malls and grocery stores with AR's and AK's would really be unnerving in so many ways I can't list them. I don't have issues with anyone wanting to own and shoot a dozen of them if the want to in the correct surrounding and even to hunt with. I just have this picture in my mind of seeing them in Malls and Busy parking lots and sidewalks filled with children and adults and it is not a good picture. Back when I was in high school I had a deer rifle and a shotgun in the rifle rack in back window of my truck in parking lot at high school with plans on going hunting after school. Different time in a different country than we live in today. ..........jmho

 

I see your point and even have to admit that it might make me a little nervous to be walking around on a crowded sidewalk with a bunch of folks with ARs slung on their backs.  However, the law isn't there to prevent me from feeling uncomfortable around people who are doing no harm by their actions.  Attempts to prevent discomfort via laws is also the sort of thing that generally leads to stupid laws that ban or limit ownership or importation of certain weapons just because they 'look' scary to the sheep. 

 

As for this being a different time and a different country, I'd also say that is part of the problem, not a justification for limiting rights.  Instead, maybe we should be looking to support things that might help us return to those times and being that country rather than going along with attempts to move us further away from them.  Just a thought.

Edited October 23, 2013 by JAB

[LagerHead]

I think a better question would be, why was it ever made illegal?

 

 

I would vote no only reason being is a long gun is more of an offensive weapon where a pistol is more of a defense weapon.  I will be interested to see how others feel about this opinion.  I know never bring a pistol to a rifle fight.

 

The only thing that makes a weapon offensive or defensive is who starts it. If I come in to a place and start shooting for no reason with my XD, my pistol is an offensive weapon. If I get taken out by someone with an AR-15, it just became a defensive weapon. 

 

Well I actually voted no to this because the thought of having a bunch of people walking around on the sidewalks and in malls and grocery stores with AR's and AK's would really be unnerving in so many ways I can't list them. I don't have issues with anyone wanting to own and shoot a dozen of them if the want to in the correct surrounding and even to hunt with. I just have this picture in my mind of seeing them in Malls and Busy parking lots and sidewalks filled with children and adults and it is not a good picture. Back when I was in high school I had a deer rifle and a shotgun in the rifle rack in back window of my truck in parking lot at high school with plans on going hunting after school. Different time in a different country than we live in today. ..........jmho

 

This argument sounds vaguely familiar. Where have I heard it before? Oh yea, from Brady, Obama, Pelosi, Boxer, and every other anti-gun person/organization out there. ;)

 

Call me an absolutist if you want, but I can't get past the "shall not be infringed" part that follows "the right to keep and bear arms".

 

And here I was thinking I was the only one who got it. 

[JAB]

As already stated, a long gun is more of a long-range offensive weapon while a handgun is an up-close defensive weapon.

 

I think another type of long gun - the shotgun - is being overlooked in this discussion.  The 12 gauge pump by my bed, loaded with buckshot, is not that long a range weapon.  It is more of a defensive/close quarters weapon.  Not all 'long guns' are AR-15s or scoped, high powered rifles.

 

For that matter, there are things like pistol-caliber carbines that should also be considered.  Such carbines are 'long guns' but that doesn't mean they are long range weapons nor does it automatically make them 'offensive' weapons.

Edited October 23, 2013 by JAB

[Jonnin]

I would rather be in a crowd of AR or AK totin people than the same folks with loaded bolt action deer rifles or shotguns.  A great many traditional guns seem to fire when dropped, dunno if they are antiques or flawed or what but you here time and time again of someone throwing or tossing or even gravity pulling down a gun leaned against a wall and it discharges.  Modern rifles seem to have a better safety system. 

[Oh Shoot]

I think a better question would be, why was it ever made illegal?

 

To make it harder for all them freed niggras to murder all the white men and rape their wimmen. Seriously.

 

Originally was an out for an "army or navy pistol", 'cause most all "them" folks couldn't afford them. This law is still on the books in any number of cities around TN. as it was copied from the state law enacted in 1870. It was the ordinance that Kwik took on in Belle Meade; Knoxville has it on the books also.

 

- OS

Edited October 23, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Erik88]

You guys confuse the hell out of me. You tore apart the guys who openly carried rifles into Starbucks yet 85% of you think we should legalize this process?

 

I'm wondering what percentage of our members are bipolar

[Oh Shoot]

You guys confuse the hell out of me. You tore apart the guys who openly carried rifles into Starbucks yet 85% of you think we should legalize this process?

 

I'm wondering what percentage of our members are bipolar

Touché!

 

Roses are red,

Violets are blue,

I'm schizophrenic,

And so am I.

 

- OS

[whitewolf001]

You guys confuse the hell out of me. You tore apart the guys who openly carried rifles into Starbucks yet 85% of you think we should legalize this process?

 

I'm wondering what percentage of our members are bipolar

I don't believe it's a good idea just because of recent events, do I think it should be illegal? No, if I want to walk into WalMart with it slung across my back it's no one elses damned business what I'm doing. Open carrying a pistol in general is a follied idea in my opinion just because it paints you as a target, though illegal. I wish there would be a day where one could walk into a store with a rifle or pistol exposed and not a person would a bat an eye but alas, that time has yet to reveal itself. Those whom went to Starbucks were apart of a country wide protest so I support that whole heartedly, as they weren't seeking to cause a panic as people like Voldemort do just randomly. I like the idea Voldemort is trying to push forward as far as open carry is concerned but he goes about it in the WAY wrong, and usually asinine, direction.

[Erik88]

You guys are effing ridiculous. You think we should have the right but anyone who exercises that right is an egotistical troll who should be tared and feathered. I can't believe what I'm reading.

[Chucktshoes]

You guys are effing ridiculous. You think we should have the right but anyone who exercises that right is an egotistical troll who should be tared and feathered. I can't believe what I'm reading.

Almost, but not quite. The tarring and feathering is a little much. Here's the thing, just because something may not be a good idea for whatever reason, does not mean that the government should be making laws against it. I don't think it is a good idea to use IV drugs like heroin. I also don't think the government has any business making it illegal and stealing from the populace to wage a horrendous drug war against them to stop a consensual activity. No victim, no crime.

 

Edited to add: Just because I don't think there should be a law against what somebody is doing, doesn't mean I can't tell them that they are a dumbass for doing it.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[whitewolf001]

You guys are effing ridiculous. You think we should have the right but anyone who exercises that right is an egotistical troll who should be tared and feathered. I can't believe what I'm reading.

Using those rights is one thing, using them to stir up and ruffle feathers is another entirely, THAT is being a troll. I support the RIGHT to open carry, I don't think it's a good idea but then that is my own opinion but it is not for me to say whom can or can't, that is my point sir.

Edited October 23, 2013 by whitewolf001