Hamilton Place MAll Posted

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Apparently Hamilton Place mall is now posted with the "Pursuant to TN Code Annotated..." signs. All of the Chattanooga area members here need to make their DISPLEASURE with this known to the mall management. Our money is certainly welcome but our ability to defend ourselves going to and from our vehicles is NOT welcome apparently.

I intend to write them a letter detailing that the signs will do nothing to deter crime, but instead will only limit the ability of decent CONSUMERS to defend themselves going to and from their vehicles. And it is much safer for all involved for the permit holders to keep their guns ON THEM than to leave them in the car and possibly have it stolen if their car gets broken into...The point is not so much that I fear I will have to shoot someone in the mall (though that is not out of the realm of possibility), as much as leaving the gun unattended in the car is just negligent.

Being a TN Handgun permit instructor I also intend to tell EVERYONE who comes through my class that Hamilton Place does not welcome those who take their personal protection seriously and that the students would be better served to spend their money with businesses that do not discriminate based on whether you chose to remain helpless or not. After all, money is what they value, and we can certainly spend ours elsewhere.

[Guest Grout]

You might be better off sending your letter across the street to CBL as they are the owners of Hamilton Place and a **** load of other malls.My guess is it is a corporate decision and they most likely could care less whether gun owners shop there or not.

[Guest price g]

You have way too much money if you shop there anyway

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Yeah, I wouldn't care about losing customers like Doctors, Lawyers or other business professionals either......you know, the demographic of about 3/4 of the people that come to the CCW classes.....

Blockbuster video DID care in the late 90s when they got inundated with complaints about their CORPORATE policy against CCW. But when it became clear that they would lose business if the "no guns allowed" signs did not come down they changed their policy.......

And you are right, if I am the ONLY one to write a letter then no they will not give a crap BUT...if people who post here and ostensibly support the right to carry actually take a couple of minutes out of their day to write a freakin' letter, it MIGHT actually change something and make things better for gun carriers statewide....or we can just do nothing...a lot of that goes on.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Oh Shoot]

You have way too much money if you shop there anyway

Actually, I was down there about 5 weeks ago, and seemed like the whole mall was in going out of business sale mode. I bought 2 pairs of Timberland shoes for $30 each at Dillards of all places (I've paid over double that in the past); would never even have considered going there, 'cept for Mom's urging. It was no tax weekend, too.

On the weapons posting issue, we went in through Sears, and there was no gun mention of any kind.

So, things have changed? Postings on all entrances now?

- OS

[Guest Grout]

Don't Ask,Don't Tell.The choice of closet homosexuals and ccw permit holders everywhere.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

No they are not on every entrance and I know exactly where you are going with that so you do not need to say any more....yes that IS a good thing, but it probably does not need to be discussed openly. You do know that EVERYTHING you ever post on the internet is fair game in court and more than just "good ole boy" gun owners troll these websites for info....

And on the "don't ask don't tell"...refer to the above paragraph. BUT if we can affect a change in their no gun policy, then that is OBVIOUSLY a better thing than just breaking the law.

You know ......from a PRACTICAL standpoint.... you can carry a gun (or a grenade or a pound of cocaine for that matter ) ANYWHERE you can keep from getting caught with it....but that does not mean that it is not still against the law....and TN law only protects you if you actually have to use the gun in self defense in a place it is illegal to carry, it DOES NOT protect you if "officer unfriendly" spots it under your shirt in a place that is posted......

In fact, under that logic why even get a permit at all? Just keep it concealed! Odds are you'll never have to use it to defend yourself, and if you do you can't be prosecuted for the illegal carry...so why even bother with a permit?

Oh yeah, it kinda comes in handy in all those other times when you might encounter a police officer and you would be violating the law for carrying without a permit....you know, like when you get pulled over or you are in a wreck and they FIND the gun....THAT i swhy we get permits and why it would be SO MUCH easier just to get the policy changed than to just break the law from a legal standpoint....

So again, if folks want to talk about about how much they support the 2A and CCW and list how many dozens of guns they have and all that, but are too lazy to write a freakin letter to help make it easier to carry and to maybe help eliminate some of the places that they cannot LEGALLY carry in, then that would just be pretty damn sad.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Guest bkelm18]

You need to chill the F out. Don't like their policy? Don't shop there. If you can't comprehend that then that is pretty damn sad. You want to write a letter? Write away. But whining and getting upset when someone brings up something that has been said about carrying concealed since Day One is just silly. Edited August 31, 2008 by bkelm18

[Guest sling]

You need to chill the F out. Don't like their policy? Don't shop there. If you can't comprehend that then that is pretty damn sad. You want to write a letter? Write away. But whining and getting upset when someone brings up something that has been said about carrying concealed since Day One is just silly.

+1

[strickj]

I haven't been in Hamilton Place in probably two years or better.

The reason are the half naked girls are getting a little to young,and I'm getting a little to afraid of jail!

"Thats what I love about these girls.I get older,but they stay the same age man..."

[Im Neero]

You know ......from a PRACTICAL standpoint.... you can carry a gun (or a grenade or a pound of cocaine for that matter ) ANYWHERE you can keep from getting caught with it.....

You know where to get hand grenades?

[Cruel Hand Luke]

You need to chill the F out. Don't like their policy? Don't shop there. If you can't comprehend that then that is pretty damn sad. You want to write a letter? Write away. But whining and getting upset when someone brings up something that has been said about carrying concealed since Day One is just silly.

Well silly me. I guess I just assumed that some here might actually give a crap about their right to carry enough to maybe get off their ass for a split second and maybe do something as simple as writing a letter that might help make things better for those who choose to take responsibility for their own safety. Pardon the hell out of me...

I guess this IS NOT the place to find those type individuals. Fine. If no one cares..then no one cares and I can't make people care. It just gets real old hearing people complain about their "erosion of their rights" and see everyone pile in on the threads about places that you cannot carry saying that it should not be that way, but when I actually mention a specific place and something might be able to be done about it instead of some "pro gun solidarity" I get cute little comments like "keep it concealed" . Well no "F"ing kidding. If I were just concerned with ME I'd say fine.

But this is not just about me. While I might just take the advice I've been giving since way before this board even existed and just keep it concealed, there are other folks this involves and sooner or later this policy will lead to someone ...one of us...one of the good guys...getting hurt or worse. But I guess that you guys just don't give a crap unless it directly affects you.

Well, that mentality is why we do not have lawful carry in places that serve alcohol because we do not "stick together" and make our voices heard. And this is why in one of my first posts here I got in someone's face about them questioning how much I supported the right to carry because I'm just not a big proponent of openly carrying.But instead of using open carry as a political statement I actually DO SOMETHING like call representatives and send emails to make things better for us not just sit around and fondle my guns and bitch about how much things suck, but not do anything to change it.

So maybe YOU should have spent the time you took writing your trite little response and used that to write to the mall management company and actually do something POSITIVE for our side....but I guess that is just too hard. And to be honest, I've been carrying a gun and fighting this fight since you were in elementary school. When you've been fighting for our gun rights HALF as long as I have then maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[dralarms]

Well Luke,

For those of us who have no idea on where to write how about post their address. I don't shop there, but not because of the gun issue, still I'll try and do my part and rattle a few windows.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

As soon as I have the address to address it to I'll post it here.

Guys, I'm sorry if I came across a little agitated, but this battle never ends and we CAN do something about it if we make noise.....we should stick together on this stuff because it helps US. Why should someone (whether it is me or not)especially our wives, sisters or daughters, be forced to leave their gun in their car to comply with a misguided corporate policy. So we either break the law or follow a misguided policy that enhances the risk of more guns being in the hands of criminals from theft from our vehicles...brilliant. Corporate policies are easier to change than laws. Corporations respect money...if they start losing it or fear they will start losing it...they start to listen.

I'll post an address as soon as I can.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[et45]

Seems to me that if they went through the trouble of posting the correct legal signs then they could care less.As mentioned in another post contact the parent company CBL,their corporate offices are across the street,contact them.Personally I quit going there when Frank and Stein closed.

Edited September 1, 2008 by et45

[Guest Grout]

As soon as I have the address to address it to I'll post it here.

Guys, I'm sorry if I came across a little agitated, but this battle never ends and we CAN do something about it if we make noise.....we should stick together on this stuff because it helps US. Why should someone (whether it is me or not)especially our wives, sisters or daughters, be forced to leave their gun in their car to comply with a misguided corporate policy. So we either break the law or follow a misguided policy that enhances the risk of more guns being in the hands of criminals from theft from our vehicles...brilliant. Corporate policies are easier to change than laws. Corporations respect money...if they start losing it or fear they will start losing it...they start to listen.

I'll post an address as soon as I can.

The headquarters is located on the property.Contact them here.www.cblproperties.com

[Guest eyebedam]

You need to chill the F out. Don't like their policy? Don't shop there. If you can't comprehend that then that is pretty damn sad. You want to write a letter? Write away. But whining and getting upset when someone brings up something that has been said about carrying concealed since Day One is just silly.

Well silly me. I guess I just assumed that some here might actually give a crap about their right to carry enough to maybe get off their ass for a split second and maybe do something as simple as writing a letter that might help make things better for those who choose to take responsibility for their own safety. Pardon the hell out of me...

I guess this IS NOT the place to find those type individuals. Fine. If no one cares..then no one cares and I can't make people care. It just gets real old hearing people complain about their "erosion of their rights" and see everyone pile in on the threads about places that you cannot carry saying that it should not be that way, but when I actually mention a specific place and something might be able to be done about it instead of some "pro gun solidarity" I get cute little comments like "keep it concealed" . Well no "F"ing kidding. If I were just concerned with ME I'd say fine.

But this is not just about me. While I might just take the advice I've been giving since way before this board even existed and just keep it concealed, there are other folks this involves and sooner or later this policy will lead to someone ...one of us...one of the good guys...getting hurt or worse. But I guess that you guys just don't give a crap unless it directly affects you.

Well, that mentality is why we do not have lawful carry in places that serve alcohol because we do not "stick together" and make our voices heard. And this is why in one of my first posts here I got in someone's face about them questioning how much I supported the right to carry because I'm just not a big proponent of openly carrying.But instead of using open carry as a political statement I actually DO SOMETHING like call representatives and send emails to make things better for us not just sit around and fondle my guns and bitch about how much things suck, but not do anything to change it.

So maybe YOU should have spent the time you took writing your trite little response and used that to write to the mall management company and actually do something POSITIVE for our side....but I guess that is just too hard. And to be honest, I've been carrying a gun and fighting this fight since you were in elementary school. When you've been fighting for our gun rights HALF as long as I have then maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from.

[dralarms]

What do you think about this?

I drove by Hamilton Place Mall on Saturday and much to my dismay I was unable to go shopping due to the newly posted signage declaring your building to be a gun free zone. I will respect your wishes and spend my money elsewhere, however I request you send me via email a listing of all your properties so that I can assure that I will not mistakenly enter one of your buildings carrying a firearm.

In closing please let me say that the law abiding people of Tennessee are the only ones that will follow your signage, the criminals will still carry where ever they wish and will not hesitate to do harm to any one who would get in their way.

Gerald McLawhorn

[mousegunner]

I agree that people need to speak up. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Here's the email I sent to info@cblproperties.com...

I have been informed that I am now forbidden by your signs to shop at Hamilton Place Mall, since I am legally certified by the State of Tennessee to carry a handgun. (As you may know, everyone in Tennesse who has a permit to carry a gun has had extensive criminal background checks done on him/her, has taken classes on handgun law and safety, etc.) I will respect your wishes and stay out of Hamilton Place Mall, and spend my money elsewhere. I hope you will reconsider, as your mall postings are quite illogical and short-sighted. Only good law-abiding citizens will obey your "gun free zone" signs. Anyone intent on causing trouble will ignore your signs, and have free rein to do his dirty work, because your signs keep out those who might have a chance to stop him. The criminals will still carry guns where ever they wish, and will not hesitate to do harm to any one who would get in their way. Your signs have just made it a little bit easier for criminals or nuts to kill large numbers of people unopposed. I will stay out of Hamilton Place Mall, and your other properties, because you have made them dangerous places to be. A large percentage of Tennessee residents have handgun carry permits, and I will warn those I know that only criminals are allowed to carry guns in your malls, and that law-abiding citizens should stay away. I learned about your new policy on the internet, and I'm sure the news is spreading rapidly.

For those of you who care what the Bible says, consider Leviticus 5:1...

"If a person sins because he does not speak up when he hears a public charge to testify regarding something he has seen or learned about, he will be held responsible."

Edited September 3, 2008 by mousegunner
adding a Bible verse...

[catsbackr]

You need to chill the F out. Don't like their policy? Don't shop there. If you can't comprehend that then that is pretty damn sad. You want to write a letter? Write away. But whining and getting upset when someone brings up something that has been said about carrying concealed since Day One is just silly.

Randy,Don't listen to this guy!Keep up the good fight. I assure you that I will compose an e-mail as will my son (another HCP licensee). If you do nothing or say nothing, then they have won.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Ya know, I had a thought just now... perhaps, instead of (or better yet, in addition to) writing to the property owners, we should be writing to some of the tenant businesses in the mall. After all, they're the ones who will be directly losing our business, and they're also possibly in a better position to lean on CBL. They're also in a sort of a unique position, where the decisions of a third party are affecting their business.

What ya'll think?

[Guest Glock Jockey]

CBL makes money from the rent charged to the stores.You not shopping there does not hurt them at all.

[strickj]

Ya know, I had a thought just now... perhaps, instead of (or better yet, in addition to) writing to the property owners, we should be writing to some of the tenant businesses in the mall. After all, they're the ones who will be directly losing our business, and they're also possibly in a better position to lean on CBL. They're also in a sort of a unique position, where the decisions of a third party are affecting their business.

What ya'll think?

I think thats a good idea! I knew I paid you for something!

[Marswolf]

This what you are looking for? Took me two clicks to find it through Google Finance.

CBL & Associates Properties, Inc.

CBL Center, Suite 500

2030 Hamilton Place Boulevard

Chattanooga, TN 37421-6000

423.855.0001

800.333.7310

info@cblproperties.com

[Guest Grout]

Starting the day after Thanksgiving Hamilton Place,Bradley Square,and every other mall in the country that has the proper legal signs will be busting at the seams no matter how many letters and emails are sent.