TGO Lower Builds - My Idea Needs Your Input, Hunters

[StPatrick]

I'm asking for input from folks with actual experience on this one to let me know if my head is even in the right place.  Please read the entire post before responding so to keep the S/N down.

 

Here's the setup: I'm taking part in the TGO / CMT lower buy (and will probably take advantage of the pricing to get an upper and BCG, but that's not relevant to my questions).  My goal is to build a lightweight hunting rifle capable of taking up to deer-sized game in TN.  To that end, what I can say for *almost* certain is that the rifle will be scoped with a fixed stock.  Once I have the parts needed to assemble upper and lower, I'll need to decide on a barrel, which of course means choosing a caliber.  Looking at the tables, the best choices appear to be between 6.5 Grendel / .264 LBC and .300 Blackout / Whisper.  I have no intention to suppress the rifle, nor do I care if the bolt is nonstandard for the 6.5 Grendel / .264 LBC unless there's a definite and documented reliability issue.  I intend to build the rifle simply for the satisfaction of doing it, and may or may not ever take a shot at anything other than paper with it, but if the opportunity comes along, I want to be able to do so.

 

With the preamble now stated, here are the operational requirements: the rifle must be based on the AR-15 platform, able to feed from standard GI magazines readily available, and capable of humane 1-shot kills of medium-sized game within a range of 200 yards, that distance being the maximum range that the landscape and my capabilities would normally allow.*

 

*For any hunters getting somewhat agitated, rest easy.  I am only asking about rifle capabilities, not personal.  I'm a pretty good shot, and I will most certainly attend the required hunter safety course, follow all laws and requirements, practice like crazy,  and would be going into the field with a very experienced hunter should I decide to shoot for the table as opposed to paper.  I have no intention to make any creature suffer, nor do I have any desire to spend any more time than necessary tracking.

 

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, please give me your thoughts on the usefulness, pros / cons, etc., of each cartridge.  I understand the ballistic capabilities of both, but I do not have the real-world experience necessary to decide between the flatter and faster, but smaller, 6.5 Grendel / .264 LBC and the heavier but slower .300 Whisper / Blackout, especially with regards to the requirement of a clean kill based on different shots as they may be presented, with the caveat that we are absolutely not talking about head or high spine shots.  If I thought I was that good under pressure, I'd use 5.56x45 and call it a day.  I don't know if I am or not, so I won't.  For those with any kind of experience, any input you have on what kind of margin for error each cartridge provides for less than perfect shots is what I'd really like to hear (especially as range changes), as both will provide stops with perfectly placed shots and the right ammo.  I understand that what I've asked for is neither easily quantifiable nor explained; my apologies for being a pain in the hindparts.

 

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your input!

 

Regards,

StPatrick

[Dolomite_supafly]

As much of a 300 Blackout fan I am I must say the 6.5 Grendel would be better for a less than ideal shot. 300 Blackout is more than capable of taking deer at 200 yards but the 6.5 has more energy to put an animal down quickly.

I would also look at the 300 OSSM. It is much better than either and any standard AR15, not AR10, can be chambered in it. It almost duplicates the 308 Winchester.

If I were to use the 300 BO to take deer I would push a 110-125 grain bullet as fast as humanly possible.

[JeffL]

I haven't had an issue with taking deer using .223. The two I have shot were both through the lungs. I will be building an SBR in .300BLK and will use it for deer hunting. I will be loading my own ammo. Plenty of people use 30-30 and I suppose .300BLK to be it's equal.

Edited October 12, 2013 by JeffL

[Dolomite_supafly]

30-30 is more gun than the 300 Blackout but the Blackout is capable of 200 yard deer shots. Shot placement is everything though.

[Byedan]

458 socom should handle most game in North America

[Fourtyfive]

Not to steal your thread but I too am looking for something different , I have two TGO lowers ordered. I am going to get rid of my plastic Frontier lower and place my Varmint RRA upper on one. I want a different caliber for the other , I have 6 .223 AR's and it's time for a new caliber. I am open to suggestions , thinking of the .50 Beowulf or .458 SOCOM. I have wondered about the availability of ammo for both. I love the 7.62 x 39 , but it requires different magazines , correct ?

[TripleDigitRide]

Not to steal your thread but I too am looking for something different , I have two TGO lowers ordered. I am going to get rid of my plastic Frontier lower and place my Varmint RRA upper on one. I want a different caliber for the other , I have 6 .223 AR's and it's time for a new caliber. I am open to suggestions , thinking of the .50 Beowulf or .458 SOCOM. I have wondered about the availability of ammo for both. I love the 7.62 x 39 , but it requires different magazines , correct ?

If you're concerned about ammo, the 50 Beowulf and 458 SOCOM may not be your best options. Your luck will likely be better if you reload.

[Howler]

I've used the .223 to kill deer without any problems. No long tracking jobs, but I did shot them in the neck. Between the 223 and 300 BO I'd go with the 300. The head and neck will not always be an option. I'd hate to think some big horns got away from me because I didn't have the perfect head/neck shot. The BO will be just fine under 200 yards on deer. I have no experience with the other calibers so I can't help with that. I know a guy that hunts coyote with the Whisper and has done so for years. That little round can put some nice holes in thin skinned animals. 

[gregintenn]

I have never personally killed a deer personally with one, but I would have no fear at all in taking a Tennessee whitetail with any of the calibers you've mentioned.

 

A center chest shot with a properly constructed bullet in a 223/556 would most assuredly take any whitetail Tennessee has to offer with boring regularity. Deer just aren't that tough, and 200 yards isn't an outrageous distance with a good rest, an accurate rifle, and a competent shooter.

 

This does require a bit of patience and restraint. It is the iffy shots that sometimes require a larger, tougher bullet.

 

Now that you mention it, I may have to prove my theory afield before too long.

Edited October 12, 2013 by gregintenn

[CM1021]

I would definitely go with the 300 BLK. For deer you can push some of the lighter bullets at a very good speed. plus there's no specialized bolt, mags, and ammo is starting to catch up with demand on the 300 BLK. Plus if for some crazy reason, ;D, you decide later on you want a suppressor you have an awesome host for one. 

[KOM2]

I was thinking 6.8 vs 300? Any thoughts?

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[Rightwinger]

For TN deer, 458 Socom, hands down.  Ammo is available, just harder to find.  Would recommend the reloading route for variety and access though.  Check out 458SocomForum.com for more info.  Check out SBRammunition.com for ammo solutions.

[Wingshooter]

As much of a 300 Blackout fan I am I must say the 6.5 Grendel would be better for a less than ideal shot. 300 Blackout is more than capable of taking deer at 200 yards but the 6.5 has more energy to put an animal down quickly.
I would also look at the 300 OSSM. It is much better than either and any standard AR15, not AR10, can be chambered in it. It almost duplicates the 308 Winchester.

Just when I made a tough decision to build my TGO lower as a 6.5G, you introduce me to the 300 OSSM :) Interesting round


 

For TN deer, 458 Socom, hands down.  Ammo is available, just harder to find.  Would recommend the reloading route for variety and access though.  Check out 458SocomForum.com for more info.  Check out SBRammunition.com for ammo solutions.

Agree

[StPatrick]

As much of a 300 Blackout fan I am I must say the 6.5 Grendel would be better for a less than ideal shot. 300 Blackout is more than capable of taking deer at 200 yards but the 6.5 has more energy to put an animal down quickly.

I would also look at the 300 OSSM. It is much better than either and any standard AR15, not AR10, can be chambered in it. It almost duplicates the 308 Winchester.

If I were to use the 300 BO to take deer I would push a 110-125 grain bullet as fast as humanly possible.

 

I looked into it, and .300 OSSM looks like an awesome cartridge, but parts and such are even harder to come by than for the 6.5 Grendel / .264 LBC.  At this point, I think I'm going 6.5.  There's a decent probability that I'll never get the chance to shoot any any longer distances, but just in case, the 6.5 performs very well.

 

For those who aren't committed to an upper already, there's a company making dedicated uppers similar to the 300 OSSM that chamber the various WSSM calibers which look really cool.  The downside is that you must have a dedicated upper, and with the licensing agreements that are currently in place you're committed to buying a complete upper.  I was unable to find options to build from scratch.  Here's the link: http://www.dtechuppers.com/ar-15-wssm-upper-receivers.html

[Clod Stomper]

I would recommend the 6.5G, but your requirement for milspec mags knocks it out. UNLESS you're fine with 4-5 rounds at a time. The Grendel requires a dedicated mag for full capacity.

Otherwise, it has an energy and distance advantage.

If you're going to handload, that's another factor to consider. Grendel is "pickier" when it comes to hand loading.