ATF Agent on Hollowpoints in VT shooting...

[Guest Hyaloid]

Caught some of the NBC news broadcast tonight... and found it online. An ATF agent weighs in with his "expert" opinion on the ammo used by the shooter.

Click on the story titled "Virginia Tech Gunman planned in advance"

:puke:

They start talking about the ammo about 1:21 into the video.... when talking about his "arsenal", at least they call them "magazines"

[towerclimber37]

huh...ok..this is the same ATF thats' responsible for the Ruby Ridge massacre, right?

and responsible for burning down The compound in Waco Texas?

they're the same ones that shot an unarmed woman through a kitchen window while she was holding a baby...and later had lawsuit for it for something like 6 million dollars.

thats what it cost US the taxpayers for that sniper to shoot that Randy Weavers' wife, and shoot his 12 year old son in the back.

If there were ever an organization of cowards and criminals...THAT one qualifies.

yah...I think I trust those people.

[Guest RN MEDIC]

Yep, thats the same BATF. They won't be satisfied till we don't have ANY guns, ammo, weapons of any kind. I won't be satisfied till the criminals among them (most of them for sure) are all doing a nice long stretch in a federal pen at hard labor on a rock pile.

Look like a fight to the finish.

RN

[Guest Ghostrider]

yeap, God knows we'd never need a hollow point to defend our homes, those are just for killing people.

And all this time I thought if you drew on someone, you "should" kill them....

go figure...

[GhostDog]

"Never wrestle a pig in the mud. You get dirty and the pig likes it." If hollow point ammo is so evil, why do ALL police departments use it? This is just stupid.

[Guest Hyaloid]

The best way to end a confrontation is to kill the offending violent party. That's why it's called

DEADLY" force... not, "wound them and let them crawl away" force... or "use rounds that penetrate better so you can also place your loved ones in more danger" force...or "brandish and cower" force...

I could go on and on... what a jackass that guy was. Of course, there's no one there in the story to refute his "expert" opinion, and no research done to verify what he says is accurate and responsible.

Media bias at it's best, gotta push that agenda through, dontcha know!

[Guest Phantom6]

Hmm, let's see here. If (big "if") reporting is accurate, he fired 200 rounds, 55 targets hit with 32 kills. He only hit a human sized target at close range at an average of about 25% of the time. Not much of a shooter considering the confines in which he was operating and the ammo used. Should have been like fish in a barrel. Quite a number of the survivors heard and several of them saw him cap himself and become DRT. My God, immagine how bad it could have been if a trained gunman had gotten in there.

I want to read the official VA State Police report after this is all over.

[shaftbass]

Hmm, let's see here. If (big "if") reporting is accurate, he fired 200 rounds, 55 targets hit with 32 kills. He only hit a human sized target at close range at an average of about 25% of the time. Not much of a shooter considering the confines in which he was operating and the ammo used. Should have been like fish in a barrel. Quite a number of the survivors heard and several of them saw him cap himself and become DRT. My God, immagine how bad it could have been if a trained gunman had gotten in there.

I want to read the official VA State Police report after this is all over.

I wondered how long it would be before someone here would comment on the nutjob's marksmanship

I guess I have my answer.

[molonlabetn]

He shot most people multiple times, as I understand it.

Considering that he killed a majority of the people he shot, I think this is a moot point... Morbid, to say the least.

[Guest Old Chief]

After all is said and done he is a nut case, but a nut case who got his hands on a gun and lots of ammo.

[Guest jackdog]

BATF, kind of reminds me of the gestapo. If you search the net you will find tons of cases were these criminals, have perpetrated crimes on our fellow Americans. I think that the BATF is an off shoot of the IRS.

[saintsfanbrian]

Yes, they are an offshoot of the IRS. All of them are theives.

[towerclimber37]

the way that the BATF gets away with all of their crimes is that they do whatever they want..then they say "take us to court!"..they of course have federally funded lawyers and they can drag it out in courts for as long as it takes to run you out of money.

I myself wouldn't want to be involved with a court case like that unless I could get a lawyer that would take a percentage of the award or nothing at all if he lost, which is what Randy Weaver did..and they STILL didn't find for him...they found in favor of his daughter...he got NO justice because they manufactured evidence via testimony, that he was making illegal weapons...

he modified a shotgun and it was within 1/16th of an inch of the lawful length.

With all of their perfidy, one wonders if it was even the same shotgun or an exact model slipped in by the batf.

[saintsfanbrian]

There again, the only thing that laws do is keep honest people honest, kind of like locks. They only keep honest people out. The thieves, criminals etc. will always circumvent the law.

[Guest LegalRaptor]

Hmm, let's see here. If (big "if") reporting is accurate, he fired 200 rounds, 55 targets hit with 32 kills. He only hit a human sized target at close range at an average of about 25% of the time. Not much of a shooter considering the confines in which he was operating and the ammo used. Should have been like fish in a barrel. Quite a number of the survivors heard and several of them saw him cap himself and become DRT. My God, immagine how bad it could have been if a trained gunman had gotten in there.

Also, consider that we (or at least I) always practice "2 in the chest, 1 in the head" or "multiple hits COM." If we followed this advice, we would be shooting about 3 rounds per target, or 33%, if every shot hit as intended. We will never know how many targets he shot at, only how many he hit. It really doesn't matter. He devastated an entire nation.

[Guest RN MEDIC]

Remember now in both cases (Ruby Ridge & Waco) supposedly all that was done to innocent people over $200 in each case. That right; just $200. Folks, do you think "THEY" spent a bit more than $200 in each case?!? Yep. So obviously it wasn't about the supposed tax collection. It was about controlling people and showing the rest of us that "THEY" will not hesitate to MURDER innocent WOMEN and CHILDREN ANYTIME "they" get ready if wishes just to show us what they can and will do.

Since both events happened, how I've wishes that Waco had happened first rather than the other way around as "THEY" would have seen what mad patriots can and will do when "THEY" tried to camp out at the base of that mountain and drive in & out on those county roads. Had Waco happened first, making the good freedom loving patriots up there in that part of the country as FIGHTING MAD as we all are, "THEY" (the feddies) would have KNOWN what it was like to BE a target as they ran for their lives instead of camp out leisurely at the base of the mountain where the Weaver family were hold up.

Believe me folks, I fear federal people and especially politicans FAR more than camel jockeys with bombs.

WITHOUT APOLOGY, RN

[Guest jackdog]

Rn I have to agree with your last sentence.

[towerclimber37]

You have good right to fear them.

another good example of the Government using more force than necessary to send a message...the deportation of Elian Gonsalez.

His Aunt and Uncle had registered with INS. They were made aware and agreed that if the INS wanted to deport him, they were to bring him in to the regional office there in Miami.

here's the rub...the Attourney General (Janet Reno) first sparred with INS over his citizenship by trying to say that he was too young to request asylum.

The INS stated that the law did NOT stipulate an age limit either way, for a person to request asylum.

She Then TOLD them to deport him. The INS said they had no legal bearing to do so. (apparently she became angry when they gave her the metophorical finger).

When Cuban dictator Fidel Castro found the father and got into the act..All Reno had to do was to order the INS to have the child brought in. Both the Uncle and the Aunt had been contacted by the INS and said they would do what they were ordered to do. (apparently they were concerned and stayed in contact to see how it was going to turn out)

We all know what happened instead.

here's a little known fact though..did you know Janet Reno ran for Gov. of Florida the next year?

Now THATS what I call disillusionment!

[Guest jackdog]

Janet Reno was a piece of work alright, and a bad piece at that

[Guest Phantom6]

RN Medic wrote:

Believe me folks, I fear federal people and especially politicans FAR more than camel jockeys with bombs.

Not me my friend. Though I must say that the feds and the politicians that manipulate them ain't too far behind.

[Guest sermon8r]

From what i understand the slimeball used a .22 so the evil hollowpoint bulletts made a huge diffrence.......

As a newsletter recipient of my company, I feel that I need to let you know about the recent media coverage that my company has received. To facilitate this we have set up the following page on our websites http://www.xdpistols.com/Article.aspx?AKey=VA_Tech_Statement to view my stance and allow you to leave comments as well .

Last week Tuesday, the BATF informed us that we had sold Cho Seung-Hui (the VA Tech mass murderer) the Walther P22 that he used in his rampage. The information got out to the press on Thursday and I did many interviews to state the facts and to make sure that our industry was not blamed for this tragedy. Rather than restate the facts here, I am going to give you a couple links to read about it yourself.

Article from the local newspaper: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070419/GPG0101/70419133/1207

CBS News Article: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/cbsnews_investigates/main2708822.shtml

For further information, you can search any number of news organizations as this has been covered widely.

For those of you that have sent in letters of support, we appreciate it very much. It offsets the harassing, threatening and moronic correspondence that we’ve received as well. As I have said, I think that this is a time for us to think about and remember the victims of this tragedy and if you can, we ask you to make a donation to the memorial fund which is linked on www.thegunsource.com , www.topglock.com and on several of our busier websites.

Our support of the Second Amendment remains unwavering. It has been difficult this past week, but we shall remain strong and stand true to our values.

Eric Thompson

President

TGSCOM, Inc

[Guest sermon8r]

'Worst nightmare': One of Virginia Tech shooter's guns came from Green Bay

Web-based business shipped it to Virginia

The Associated Press and Press-Gazette

The owner of a Green Bay-based Internet gun store told The Associated Press today that one of the weapons used in the Virginia Tech shooting was purchased from his Web site.

A Walther .22-caliber handgun picked up by Cho Seung-Hui at a Virginia pawnbroker was purchased from the Green Bay-based Web site www.thegunsource.com, the store’s owner, Eric Thompson, said.

“I just feel absolutely terrible that this tragedy even happened in the first place,†Thompson told the AP today. “I have three children in the first place, and it’s just an absolute tragedy.â€

Thompson said he had no idea his business was involved with the shooting until he was contacted Tuesday by telephone by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. He was interviewed in person by ATF agents on Wednesday, he said.

"There was nothing remarkable about the sale," Thompson told the Press-Gazette this afternoon, adding that his business sold about 30 of the handguns in the past year.

Thompson, originally from Ashwaubenon, started the business in Arizona in 1999 and moved back to the area to open the business in Green Bay last October.

Sherry Duval, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regional office in St. Paul, Minn, said she couldn’t comment on the gun. Federal law prohibits the ATF from sharing information on gun traces with anyone other than the law enforcement agencies requesting them, she said.

Cho is believed to have killed 32 people in Monday’s attack on the Virginia Tech campus before he committed suicide.

“It quite possibly is the worst nightmare,†Thompson said. “We follow all laws and regulations to make certain these things don’t happen. It’s unfortunate a madman like that can do something like this.â€

Joe Dowdy, owner of the Blacksburg, Va., store where Cho picked up the gun, JND Pawnbrokers, has said it was purchased from an out-of-state dealer.

Thompson said Cho bought the gun with his credit card from the Web site on Feb. 2 for $267.63. He bought nothing else and had not previously been a customer, Thompson said. The gun, listed as a top seller on the site, was in stock, Thompson said.

Cho requested that it be mailed to the Virginia pawn shop.

“It’s the customer’s responsibility to let us know where they want the gun shipped because typically the receiving dealer has to do some paperwork,†Thompson said.

Once the required paperwork was completed, the gun was mailed from Green Bay to Virginia on Feb. 5, Thompson said. Records show it arrived Feb. 8, and Dowdy said Cho picked it up Feb. 9 at the store located just off the Virginia Tech campus.

Virginia State Police have insisted that the purchases of the Walter and the other weapon, a a Glock 19 9mm handgun, were legal. Cho bought the second gun from a Roanoke gun store in March.

Cho was required to fill out a form from the ATF to acquire the weapons.

He sent two e-mails the day he made the purchase from the Internet-only business, Thompson said. Cho bought the gun at 1:41 p.m., then sent an e-mail an hour later saying he wanted to be sure the dealer faxed a copy of its license to the seller and did not mail it, Thompson said.

“To my understanding, he wanted the gun rather quickly,†Thompson said.

His records do not show when Cho decided what store he wanted the gun mailed to, but Thompson said he assumes it was selected at the time of purchase.

In the second e-mail, sent at 8:52 p.m. that day, Cho asked what year the gun had been assembled. Such inquiries are common, Thompson said.

That was the last communication he had with Cho.

Duval said dealers and hand gun purchasers have to be in the same state, but two gun companies in different states that hold federal firearms licenses can transfer guns.

Both dealers have federal firearms licenses, she said.

Thompson, 34, said about 30 percent of his sales is firearms, with accessories accounting for the rest, he said. The name of the business is TGSCOM Inc.

Despite his connection to the most violent shooting rampage in U.S. history, Thompson said he does not intend to get out of the handgun business.

“There’s so many laws on the books right now, all we can do is follow the laws and make sure we comply with all states and federal regulations to try and make sure things like this never happen,†Thompson said. “This madman just happened to chose this type of a weapon right now. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.â€

Thompson’s Web site linked today to a site where donations could be made for the victims’ families. Thompson said he has donated, but declined to say how much.