Night vision questions

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have used Gen 3 ANPVS 14's a lot so I have plenty of experience with them but not with the clip on NV or the digital NV.

 

Question I have is has anyone tried the digital night vision and how do they compare to a Gen 2/3?

 

I am also looking at some clip on NV that mount ahead of a scope. The recommend scopes in the6x-7x power range. Will they work with say a 10x or 12x? I really like the idea of a clip on because I can move it from gun to gun without affecting zero.

 

In the end I want a weapon that is capable of firing accurately at night to at least 200 yards. Whether it is a digital or a standard doesn't matter.

 

Anyone have anything to say about the Armasight brand? I am looking at the Armasight CO-MR Gen 2+.

 

I also really like the Pulsar N550N/750 digital NV as well because I can create custom reticles as well as record what is seen through the scope. The down sides are it is HUGE and it cannot be moved from gun to gun as easily.

 

Both are in similar price ranges.

[gjohnsoniv]

Call Kerif Night Vision in Las Vegas.   They're a pretty good outfit and should be able to advise you on different units and answer any questions.

[samson7x]

I'm curious to hear others responses as well.  I held a Pulsar this weekend and I agree that thing is gigantic. 

[RED333]

Nuke them till they glow in the dark, no need for NV.

[Wiljo05]

Along the same lines has anyone used a laser designator for a scoped rifle? I have some decent gen 3 goggles, but would be curios of any 1st hand exp on the designators.

Not trying to hijack, thought this might be valuable info as well related to the 200 yard part...

[Danger Rane]

 

I am also looking at some clip on NV that mount ahead of a scope. The recommend scopes in the6x-7x power range. Will they work with say a 10x or 12x? I really like the idea of a clip on because I can move it from gun to gun without affecting zero.

 

In the end I want a weapon that is capable of firing accurately at night to at least 200 yards. Whether it is a digital or a standard doesn't matter.

 

The primary reason they recommend the lower power range scopes behind a clip-on image intensifier is that even with the Gen 3+ tubes, the higher magnifications give you a view full of (for lack of a better term) "white noise".  When I used to use these a lot we had 3.5-10x vari scopes, and more often then not we were dialed down in the lower end for the best picture.  The lower the clarity of the image tube, the lower you have to dial on your scope magnification.  One really frustrating aspect of the NV world, especially the weapon mounted side of the house, is the lack of accountability with their "Target Identification Parameters".  There are obviously several additional variables when shooting with and using NV, the biggest of which is the amount of natural illumination.  I swear they must run their test at dusk, because they will rate a device capable of "identifying a standing man at 500m"  but in reality, when it's dark out and only partial lum, if he's not moving, you probably wont see him at that distance unless he's standing in an open field with low vegetation.  The good news is that if you are only looking to reach out to 200 you should be fine, and able to PID whether he's holding a weapon or not at 200.  If you are already cutting off an arm and a leg to buy these you might want to look into weapon mounted IR illumination as well.  While using an aiming laser isn't anywhere near as accurate as you will be with your scope and clip-on, having an illuminating laser (IR flood) can make a huge difference.

 

A fun sidenote on this topic: With a decent illuminator and some experience looking through a NV capable spotting scope, it is actually possible to observe "trace" if you are in the proper position beside another night shooter.  Any guesses how?

[Danger Rane]

Along the same lines has anyone used a laser designator for a scoped rifle? I have some decent gen 3 goggles, but would be curios of any 1st hand exp on the designators.

Not trying to hijack, thought this might be valuable info as well related to the 200 yard part...

Our military has been using them with great success for at least the last 12-15 years.  When using the aiming laser it works best to mount it to your rifle, zero, and utilize with the goggles to aim with, while leaving your scope out of the mix. Trying to use an aiming laser while looking through a clip-on NV device mounted in front of a scope can can be problematic as the intensely focused beam can create a wash out effect on your scopes reticle, whereas an illuminating laser is diffused enough to provide artificial illumination downrange while still allowing you to see your reticle.  One downside to clip-ons vs. aiming laser and goggles is that while all NV devices give you somewhat of a "looking through a TP roll" effect on your field of view, this is exacerbated with the scope/clip-on combo to being like looking through a paper towel roll.  Obviously the best of both worlds would be a set of goggles and a weapon mounted combo aiming/illuminating laser to use for close targets out to 100-200m and a clip on in front of your optic that could be used on further targets with help from an illuminator.

[TMF]

The primary reason they recommend the lower power range scopes behind a clip-on image intensifier is that even with the Gen 3+ tubes, the higher magnifications give you a view full of (for lack of a better term) "white noise". When I used to use these a lot we had 3.5-10x vari scopes, and more often then not we were dialed down in the lower end for the best picture. The lower the clarity of the image tube, the lower you have to dial on your scope magnification. One really frustrating aspect of the NV world, especially the weapon mounted side of the house, is the lack of accountability with their "Target Identification Parameters". There are obviously several additional variables when shooting with and using NV, the biggest of which is the amount of natural illumination. I swear they must run their test at dusk, because they will rate a device capable of "identifying a standing man at 500m" but in reality, when it's dark out and only partial lum, if he's not moving, you probably wont see him at that distance unless he's standing in an open field with low vegetation. The good news is that if you are only looking to reach out to 200 you should be fine, and able to PID whether he's holding a weapon or not at 200. If you are already cutting off an arm and a leg to buy these you might want to look into weapon mounted IR illumination as well. While using an aiming laser isn't anywhere near as accurate as you will be with your scope and clip-on, having an illuminating laser (IR flood) can make a huge difference.

A fun sidenote on this topic: With a decent illuminator and some experience looking through a NV capable spotting scope, it is actually possible to observe "trace" if you are in the proper position beside another night shooter. Any guesses how?

The first time I used a PVS-22 with glass burning through it there was probably 85%+ illum and I thought it was the most awesome leap in scoped NV yet, since I'd only used a simrad and PVS-10 before. Everything was crystal clear, and I could easily see enough definition at 300m to determine if a target was armed. This was in a controlled environment on a range.

The first time I used in downrange there was probably 15% illum and I couldn't see a pack of dogs 75m away from me. The weapon was pretty much useless until an hour or two before dawn.

And yeah, first time I saw trace through a Leupold spotting scope with a PVS-14 strapped on it looked like the Matrix. Pretty neat so long as there is enough illumination out.