Question on Private sales .......

[2muchbuying]

I know this has been asked , did a search here and google and didn't turn up very much so I'll ask again .

 

Is there a limit / number of guns someone can sell in a year ?  I go thru more than 8 guns a year myself for various

 

reasons , get it  , don't like it because of feel , how it shoots , how good I can shoot with it LoL , or the number 1 reason ,

 

I needs the $$$ when something comes up !

 

For the last couple of years I've been taking my bonus at work ( usually around $3-4000 bucks ) and buy different guns .

 

I can say I had one of those !  plus I don't go blowing my bonus cash 100 here and 100 there , this way I have something to show

 

for it plus can get it all back by selling and it curbs my buy/sell cravings ( Used to be cars / motorcycles / trailers ) .

 

I've got somebody telling me I can't sell 10 guns a year without FFL ?   I've pulled up the ATF site and really all I could find was something

 

like , if it was a hobby , personal collection , or not your main source of income or how you earn your living ...... it was considered o.k.

I think on cars it was something like 7 a year before you needed to apply for a dealers lic. ?   I'd been thinking about getting my FFL just

 

to save the transfer fees when I buy something online ?  I know I've set up a table years ago at the local gunshow to sell a few that I'd ended
 

up with over a couple of years to sell with no issue or anyone saying anything  ?

 

Any info or help is appreciated .

 

Edited October 3, 2013 by 2muchbuying

[nightrunner]

There is no definitive number. I forget the wording but its just whatever the BATFE deems excessive. Could be anywhere from 2 to 2,000+.

[RED333]

I would think if you did a transfer at a FFL it would not put up any flags.

If you are selling 8 to 10 a year, you might be OK.

[2muchbuying]

75% of what I buy a year are in my name , usually by the time I sell them later in the year I've lost money so that would take out the " selling as main source of income "  LoL .

 

Good example : We are getting ready to go on Vac in a few weeks , stuck a couple of my guns up for sale to have some extra spending cash . had found a nice Colt I'd been wanting , so another

 

one went up for sale , sometimes I see something that is a good deal and a gun I've not had before or a gun I had a long time ago and would like to get another one  ( Dan Wesson 357 mag with all the

 

interchangeable barrels in the factory case for starters ! ! ) , that's mainly what the deal is , but have been threatened to be "turned in" to the atf because I was dealing without a license ?  Go figure ?   My opinion is that

 

a  "dealer" does it for a living or to supplement his income like a part time job ?  I could be wrong , wouldn't be the first time today ! :shrug:

[Volzfan]

If you are buy/selling in ftf buys/sells then how would anyone know?

[Oh Shoot]

It's illegal to be engaged in the business of selling firearms without a FFL. There is no specific number of firearm sales that determines that.

 

From 18 USC § 921:

 

"The term “engaged in the business” means—

... as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921 (a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms

......

The term “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection."

----------------

 

Don't come under ATF's radar and all should be cool. But if you do, guess who makes the determination?

 

For Gawd's sake don't sell personally to out of state resident by mail or in person, or even to a TN resident if you're not in TN at the time -- check TN DL even though not "technically" required. That buyer might not be just a buyer, ya know?

 

- OS

Edited October 4, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[2muchbuying]

yeah , I knew the out of state deal , have turned down someone before , happens now and then being close to the Ga border . A lot of people don't even think about that one .

I am a D.L. checker for sure !

 

Thxs for the info !



 

[DaveTN]

If you are buy/selling in ftf buys/sells then how would anyone know?

Because you are making contact from an ad on the internet. Read all the stories of people busted.

 

However, in most of the stories I have seen an investigation was triggered either by an incident involving the gun used in a crime, or suspected drug dealers that also traffic in guns (gun buys are easier to make than drug buys), or crossing state lines.

 

Like this ...

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/01/31/Ohioan-charged-illegal-gun-sales.html

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Just don't break laws about selling to minors and/or felons, and make sure it isn't intended to be a resale with

profit. Otherwise, I don't think you should worry. I'd just take a little care to who I sold to, and bought from.

[Patton]

All is great advice. Save your emails, I have witnessed a knock and talk by the ATF and when the guy being questioned printed off the emails with phone numbers the ATF was ready to talk to someone else.

[runco]

I know that I may be in the minority, I simply do not sell or trade guns.  In my opinion, the risk is too great.  I use to be FFL dealer 20 years ago, and was very familiar with the laws and risks long before the internet.  Though its not against the law to sell or trade occasionally, the burden if its a legal sell/trade is you the owner.  You can ask the questions, you can have the bill of sale, all of which is subject to heavy scrutiny if one of your guns come back on you, and after several thousands of dollars to retain an attorney, go through the spill, you will likely win, but was it worth the $50-$100 you made on the sale or flip, or the $500 of gun trade for that gun you wanted, and either you were to cheap to buy it out right, or just didn't have the money to begin with.  It just is not worth it. Again, I know I am in the minority.  This stance by me has not stopped my indulging in guns, its one of the reasons that I have amassed a good kitty.  One side benefit is that I do not fit in that category of the one gun I loved once that I traded away.  

[2muchbuying]

Seems like everyone selling in the classifieds can be busted ! ? !   I read the ohio story , selling across state lines first no no , selling a dozen at a time , super 2nd no no , THEN doing all that with a restraining order

already on him .
Guess stupid never takes a day off ? :shake:

 

I think I like Runco's idea , Just keep them all to myself and not share !

[McGarrett]

Here is a link to an incident involving a local Blount County man that got in a jam selling guns out the backdoor of his business. Not sure of all the details but I think he sold a stolen gun as well as selling to a felon and got on the radar of the TBI.

 

This makes you think for sure. Definitely be careful when buying or selling.

 

http://www.thedailytimes.com/Local_News/story/Maryville-man-pleads-guilty-to-gun-charge-id-041544

[Guest TankerHC]

I actually asked an ATF agent about this early last year. (DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER) but this is exactly what I was told, word for word.

 

You can sell all of the guns you want. Make a dollar profit on any of them and you become an unlicensed dealer.

Edited October 25, 2013 by TankerHC

[Oh Shoot]

I actually asked an ATF agent about this early last year. (DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER) but this is exactly what I was told, word for word.

 

You can sell all of the guns you want. Make a dollar profit on any of them and you become an unlicensed dealer.

 

There are idiots in every bureaucracy. Or ones who like to talk tough, act bossy. If he busted you for a single sale, he'd likely be busted himself.

 

Send him a copy of the USC code he's supposed to know.

 

- OS

Edited October 25, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest TankerHC]

There are idiots in every bureaucracy. Or ones who like to talk tough, act bossy. If he busted you for a single sale, he'd likely be busted himself.

 

Send him a copy of the USC code he's supposed to know.

 

- OS

 

Yea, (NOTE: Dont shoot the messenger). I called and spoke to him because the way I read it, it was completely different. However, I intended to (And still intend to) get my 01. Spoke with them for several months before I found out we were definitely moving. intended not to cross any lines whatsoever. Was about to put my paperwork in and ATF suggested I wait until I moved so as not to have to go through the rigamarole of an address change. So I waited and still havent got around to doing anything.