Car carry questions

[seez52]

Concealed carry and high capacity do not go well together. I keep an M&P 40 and an extra mag in the car regardless of what I’m carrying.

 

However, since you are concerned about the motorcycle attack I will offer by 2 cents on that. The best weapon may not always be a gun, especially if you have your wife and children with you. The victim in the bike attack rendered the best weapons he had (his vehicle and cell phone) useless when he took that exit ramp. I’m sure he was scared, but he let that fear cause him to lose situational awareness and defensive thinking.

 

He had already shown the bikers that he would not hesitate to run over their sorry azzes if they attacked him. So as long as he was moving on that highway he was safe; they weren’t going to get in front of him. He exited and put himself in a traffic jam; his vehicle was no longer a weapon; it was rendered useless.

 

Would a gun have done him any good? We don’t know, but if you have a large group of people after you in a carry state like Tennessee and you start shooting people; I would bet rounds would be inbound. While we are all 10 foot tall and bullet proof our wives and children are not.

 

I don’t blame the guy for being scared; but he had a better weapon than a gun and he panicked and gave it up. I think that’s the lesson to ponder here.

 

I think you're right on here. It did look in the video like the bikers forced him to exit by blocking his ability to merge back into the through traffic, but I may have miss looked at the video. Still, his best weapon was his vehicle. It was reported that once stopped in traffic his tires were slashed. I'm thinking even a big vehicle like that I could have seen the traffic backup ahead and planned to do a U turn or at least, even after tires being slashed, just start backing up making bikers scatter. Just because there's one or two "he men" on a bike doesn't mean they are all that way and once they start bouncing off the fenders or under the floor pan fewer are likely to decide this is their cup of tea.

[Guest Lowbuster]

Completely debatable. Trust me,shoot once in a car w no ears you'll never forget it. Every situations different.....most guys don't think about it...


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[Guest Lowbuster]

I was fixing ac duct for my dad under his trailor as I moved the main trunk I was face to face with an opossum. I shot him with a .38 because he was not happy. I couldn't hear right for weeks. I can only imagine how loud it would be in a car.

[Dustbuster]

It's bad, a guy I know who is a pro crosser ridder has a legal can on a 22. Just too minimize noise in an attic in case he has to shoot a furry hostile.....


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[Danger Rane]

From experience I can agree that cracking off a couple rounds inside a vehicle without ear pro is something you will remember forever. But imagine from a LEO and potentially a jury's perspective when you try to explain that you were in fear for your life......oh and for my hearing too. Having time to put ear pro in, or even slip on a pair of handy muffs, in any SD situation short of a zombie apocalypse just doesn't play right.

 

On that topic, I think it bears remembering how the train wreck of the Zimmerman case played out.  The prosecution grasped at anything they could to demonize what most of us would consider somewhat "normal".  They tried to turn his very limited Martial Arts training into him practically being a Ninja, despite his instructor saying that he sucked. They tried to make his handgun out to be a death dealing machine because it "gasp" had no safeties, despite it being a mediocre Kel-Tek that many would not even rely on for defensive purposes. While I 100% agree with the adage "it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6", I think that its especially important in this day and age to keep in mind the perception you set up for yourself should the need ever arise. 

 

While I would be much more comfortable having my AR, shotgun, and several reloads for each in my car every time I have to venture toward Nashville, I realize that {for now} the likelihood of me needing those does not outweigh the likelihood of me getting in a SD shoot with my carry handgun and having the fact that I had said weapons in my vehicle escalate the situation into something beyond a simple SD case.  I'm not saying I like it, condone it, or even understand it, I'm just saying that's todays reality. Now a situation at your home is entirely different, electric fences and piranha filled moats should be the norm.

 

In response to the OP's inquiry, I suffice with 7+1 in my carry gun, a mag of 7 in my off hand front pocket, and a mag of 10 in a "custom cut" piece of foam in my driver's door map pocket. The foam keeps the spare mag in place and oriented correctly for a fast reload. And remember your vehicle is also a 3,000lbs or more self defense tool.

 

The silver lining of this biker punk fiasco in New York is that it has started some national dialogue among the sheep and the prepared alike.  Now that most people have seen what these groups are capable of and willing to do, the statement "in fear for my life" might mean something.  And hopefully the ass clown that bashed in the driver's window (and those that would consider similar actions) realize that in most other states he would now have a canoe for a head....

[Spurholder]

In regards to the NYC case, it appears that 5 off-duty NYPD officers were riding with these folks.  Pardon the assumption, but I would wager that they would've been armed. 

 

He should've stayed on the Interstate; however, having driven that same route a couple of years ago, a traffic jam at any time of the day would've been likely, too.  Odds could've been a coin toss.

 

Also, have any of you seen/ heard about any report of the wife calling 911 and reporting what happened while they were being chased?

[TMF]

In regards to the NYC case, it appears that 5 off-duty NYPD officers were riding with these folks. Pardon the assumption, but I would wager that they would've been armed.

He should've stayed on the Interstate; however, having driven that same route a couple of years ago, a traffic jam at any time of the day would've been likely, too. Odds could've been a coin toss.

Also, have any of you seen/ heard about any report of the wife calling 911 and reporting what happened while they were being chased?

She called 911 four times over the course of the incident. Naturally, NYPD showed up after everything was over and made no arrests.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Disarming the citizenry of NY is gonna cause these kind of incidents more often. Outlaws are still gonna committ their crimes and terrorize people.

[tnguy]

I think this was more of a mob than a gang. Hence if you took the helmet guy down, the rest would probably have stopped because things just got serious. Most were just along for the ride and though they were behaving irresponsibly and, in many cases, illegally, are not in the same mindset as a real  biker gang.

 

Then again, there appeared to be more than just the one guy involved in the beating so who knows? A bad situation all around and there are not always good answers.

 

I've been trying to think of a good car carry solution which doesn't involve removing the gun from the vehicle every time I exit. Unfortunately, the glove box turns out not to be a good answer. There are not really many other possible locations in my car unfortunately.

[DaveS]

As much as everyone wants to go with they "they would scatter" theory   one has to ask...

 

what happens when 6 or 8 of those bikers skin their smoke wagons  and your family is part of the the backstop ?

 

it can easily go both ways once guns started getting pulled  they run and you are OK or they decide to shoot back and you cant hit them all

 

they were already in a highly agitated state so you pull a gun and shoot the helmet guy do you really think they're just going to run away ?  maybe so maybe not  

 

 the odds are bad enough at 3 to 1  anyone thinks 30 to 1 is any better needs their thought process evaluated.

 

Nobody wins in this situation 

Exactly what I was thinking as well....

 

DS

[Guest ThePunisher]

I'm just too old to take a beating from a bunch of bikers, gang thugs or whatever. If I was even younger I'm not gonna take an ass beating like these biker thugs did to this man in the SUV. People shouldn't have to be terrorized like this family did. Law enforcement needs to get these large biker groups off the roads. Pass legislation that outlaws this type of terrorism.

[tnguy]

They were already breaking laws. The cops just needed to enforce them.

[TomXD9]

I am also too old to run and too disabled to fight.  I hope some long jail sentences result, and IF one or more LEOs were involved, that goes double for them.   However, I am also a biker for over 40 years and I damn well do not act like these scum bags.   Our church has a large biker group, including more than one minister.  Please do not associate these people with the criminals in the video, and don't condemn everybody on a bike.   

[Guest ThePunisher]

I am also too old to run and too disabled to fight.  I hope some long jail sentences result, and IF one or more LEOs were involved, that goes double for them.   However, I am also a biker for over 40 years and I damn well do not act like these scum bags.   Our church has a large biker group, including more than one minister.  Please do not associate these people with the criminals in the video, and don't condemn everybody on a bike.

Nothing against bikers or biker groups, just these large biker groups that sneak up on vehicles, then loudly weaving in and out of lanes and showing their stupidity. I've been on the Interstate before with biker idiots like those in NY weaving around my vehicle. And I wondered where the police were when you needed them.

[TomXD9]

If the idiots are in loud F150s is that weaving in and out acceptable?  I have had some of these endanger my life with stupid actions.  I am against all of the idiots, even if they drive a Prius.  Condemn stupidity not the choice of vehicle.  As a TGO member I believe you can appreciate that owning a gun doesn't make anyone a criminal, it is criminal actions with that gun that makes a criminal.  Unfortunately much of our society equates the two. 

[TMF]

If the idiots are in loud F150s is that weaving in and out acceptable? I have had some of these endanger my life with stupid actions. I am against all of the idiots, even if they drive a Prius. Condemn stupidity not the choice of vehicle. As a TGO member I believe you can appreciate that owning a gun doesn't make anyone a criminal, it is criminal actions with that gun that makes a criminal. Unfortunately much of our society equates the two.

Yeah, there are stupid people on the road with bikes and trucks, but the difference here is when one is in such a large group that they completely take over the road. It isn't an individual being stupid at that point, it's a mob. I feel the same way when I see rice burner gangs who think they're in a Fast and Furious movie and they're playing grab ass with one another on the highway.

I've seen more motorcycle clubs doing good things than bad. I think now that MCs are so mainstream you have enough good ones out there to shift public perception from the "Hell's Angels" view of MCs. I have several buddies in MCs and they're all normal people who would never commit crimes, let alone mob crime. But one thing I've noticed (and I'm sure someone will get their panties twisted over this) is that the crotch rocket gangs are populated with gigantic douchtards who think their numbers give them complete control of the highway, and they're kinda right since I never see law enforcement intervene.

This has nothing to do with people who own crotch rockets, just the folks who decide they're suddenly in a badass gang because they have a fancy looking dirt bike and a spartan helmet. I've seen them a few times in Clarksville where they completely shut the road down so that 200 bikes can all make a turn at the same time; they just block the road where I have the right of way. It pisses me off that they do this, but I guess it pisses me off more that law enforcement allow them to do this. It makes these douche hammers much more brazen once they know the law won't be enforced on them, which results in mob attacks like the one in New York. All fun and games until they screw with the wrong guy and get a half dozen AK rounds pumped into their face.

If something like this happens again it should be open season on crotch rocket groups of 5 or more.

[DaveTN]

I'm here to tell you we are living in a Gestapo police state.

Law enforcement needs to get these large biker groups off the roads. Pass legislation that outlaws this type of terrorism.

Terrorism? These aren’t terrorists, you don’t want a Police state yet you want the Police to take freedoms away from some people because they ride motorcycles. That’s the same thing some are trying to do to gun owners.

 

One ricer decides to brake check a car. I’m sure he thought he could accelerate out of the way, his skills were not what he thought they were he got his azz ran over, and all hell broke loose.

 

I’ve been in many motorcycle rides that may have been intimidating to some people. But we never hurt anyone.

 

How many posts have you seen on his very forum where members have said they will brake check people?

 

How would you be responding if this was a story about cops stopping this group and telling them to get off the road?

 

One person put this in motion and emotions snowballed it into a stabbing. The guy who started it needs to be charged with what he did, the guys that damaged that vehicle need to be charged with what they did and those that pulled that guy out and stabbed him need to go to prison for the rest of their lives (of course that won’t happen).

[Spurholder]

Video from the originator of the incident...he says it's not his fault :shake:

 

http://gma.yahoo.com/christopher-cruz-biker-charged-suv-attack-says-hes-152732705--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1

[Guest ThePunisher]

I will try to clarify my viewpoint about bikers again. I don't have anything against anyone that ride bikes or ride in bike groups, but what I don't like is what we have just seen of these terrorist bikers in NY. I'm all for bikers enjoying riding their bikes and their biker groups, but when a group like this in NY terrorizes a family in their SUV, then there is no place in our society for this. As long as bikers and biker groups ride on the highways within the laws and don't endanger others on the highways with recklessness, then I'm all for your freedom of enjoying your bikes. I have had an experience of a large group similar to this one in NY where they were exceeding speeds of over 100 mph and recklessly weaving in and out of ongoing traffic and then slowing down in front of traffic. Their actions were reckless and intimidating to drivers along the highway.

I didn't condemn all bikers or all biker groups, just groups like these in NY. Keep riding, enjoy and be safe.

[Guest ThePunisher]

If the idiots are in loud F150s is that weaving in and out acceptable? 

No sir, it is not acceptable. We can agree that all reckless idiots on the road no matter what they drive is not acceptable.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Getting in here late, but someone mentioned earlier that concealed carry and hi capacity do not go together. I adamantly disagree. Now if you are 105 pounds or you dress in spandex then no...it might not be as easy to hide a larger pistol, but for MOST people if they can conceal a glock 26 they can conceal a glock 19. If you are north of 200 lbs and you don't dress in tight clothing you can normally conceal a glock 17 under an untucked polo shirt....along with a spare mag ....and a TDI LE knife...I'm just sayin'.... 

 

This is one of the situations (multiple attackers) that brings to light the issues with carrying tiny guns with just a few rounds. If you want to carry just a j frame then just be aware that not all situations are single attackers that are not very motivated. Sometimes the BGs don't run and unfortunately we see more and more multiple assailant situations.  Math does not take the day off and 15 is ALWAYS more than 5 (or 7, 8, 10, or 11). That is why I'm such a big proponent of carrying a pistol with as large a capacity as you can conceal. 

 

As to leaving guns in your car.....that is an issue for each individual to weigh in the context of his real world situation. If you have to park your car in some questionable areas sometimes due to travel during your work day, then the threat of theft might outweigh the value of having the gun stashed in the car. On the other hand if you park in a secured lot all day then the likelihood of theft is pretty small. On the other hand having it ON YOUR PERSON eliminates the issue of it being stolen out of your car. And that goes back to why I'm a big proponent of carrying as large a capacity pistol as you can conceal. 

[Spurholder]

^ Yep.

 

Case in point - my brother-in-law.  Great guy, but doesn't get it when it comes to carrying.

 

Owns a G27, says it's too big to properly conceal.  Bought a .380 and a wallet holster, and carries it in his back pocket on his weak side because, well, he's used to carrying his wallet on his right side.  I show him holsters, gun belts, mag carriers, etc.  I demonstrate to him that I have no difficulties carrying either my G17 or my G19 concealed - we're the same height, weight and build.  No impact.  Oh, well.

 

He carries what's comfortable.  I carry what's comforting (yeah, stole that line from Pat Rogers).

Edited October 9, 2013 by Spurholder

[Guest Phantom6]

1. When I saw the news story and the video I said "now THAT'S why I carry a gun!"
2. I would submit that the individual that posted that "that concealed carry and hi capacity do not go together" should rethink his priorities. I carry a Springfield XDM9 3.8 with twenty rounds on board the gun. Add to that the extra mag with another 19 rnds, a small streamlite and a folding Buck knife and I'm reasonably sure that I have all the tools and materials I need to survive most anything one could reasonably expect to run into while out on the town providing I don't make a tactical mistake. Even though my pistol may appear to "print" a bit to one that carries as well, it's still concealed to the average person who does not carry a gun.  
3. Anyone on a bike without an operating brake light that brake checks an SUV at highway speeds deserves to have his "azz" run over.

There's my 2cents worth and now I'm going to go install roof racks, run-flats, push bumpers and dash cams in and on all my vehicles. ;-)