Sometimes "you don't know what you don't know" can be frustrating

[Mark A]

I am in the process of converting my new M&P 10 into as close a replica to my VTAC M&P 15 as I can. I've been shooting for around 45 years and own several different carbines but when I got that VTAC last year for my birthday it was like I'd been waiting all my life for that one rifle.

 

So, new trigger and stock and rail etc... I'm close to being done but I keep running into little things like crush washers... Turns out that after I figured out I needed one, no one that I could find had one in stock Sunday afternoon.

 

So, off to the net to pay $8.00 in shipping for a $2.00 washer. And yes, I bought several for both rifles.

 

I guess I could possibly minimize the frustration by trying to do advanced research but where is the fun in that?

 

I know it is crazy but I seem to learn better when I just dive in. I've never been hesitant to take something apart. Most of the times things go back together and every now and then I even end up with all the parts being re-used.

 

I'm hoping that this knowledge will be useful when I get to build my TGO-15's.

 

 

And speaking of that, I'm still on the fence about building the uppers. I don't have any experience in setting head space etc. Is there a book that is the consensus best book on how to build an AR? I think, in spite of my usually preferred method of just "diving in" that I should do some actual research into the task to see the skills needed and more importantly any specialty tools required.

 

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

In the meantime this is a lot of fun interspersed with brief moments of frustration due to ignorance.

 

thanks, mark

[musicman]

Hahaha!! I TOTALLY get where you're at! The first few times I'd tear into a guitar I'd find out I didn't have this or that part, or that modern saddles wouldn't fit a vintage bridge or whatever. Half the fun was finding that out and chasing parts down. Wifey didn't get that and just thought I was an idiot who didn't know what he was doing.... guess she wasn't wrong, really. But it was fun! :-D

[RED333]

On you AR build, just send me the parts, I will get in working, be sure to send LOTS of ammo to test with.

A few 1000 will do. :wave: :rofl:

All joking aside, I am gona need help as well, so same boat diff lake.

[LngRngShtr]

AR headspace is set by the barrel maker when they put the extension on

 

barrel nut wrench, torque wrench and an action block to hold the upper without warping it  (borrowed from a friend when I built mine) hair dryer optional if the barrel doesn't slide into the upper easy sometimes they don't account for final finishes affecting the clearances. and a good set of roll pin punches.

 

Brownells has some good videos online to walk you through tools and how to build, you just have to decide which of the Bazillion combinations of parts you want to put together  short M4gery or a 3gun or a heavy long range varmint

 

Lego system of the gun world

 

welcome to the black rifle addiction

Edited October 2, 2013 by LngRngShtr

[TMF]

You can be an expert on building an upper after 10 minutes on YouTube. Don't be afraid of doing it yourself; it's pretty difficult to screw up. The biggest problem building an AR is dropping roll pins or sending springs flying. That has held up more builds than I care to mention. Currently I have a rifle with no dust cover because I dropped the clamp that holds the pivot rod in place.

If you don't have the tools I'm sure there's a TGOer close to you that would let you borrow theirs.

[Oh Shoot]

You can be an expert on building an upper after 10 minutes on YouTube. Don't be afraid of doing it yourself; it's pretty difficult to screw up. The biggest problem building an AR is dropping roll pins or sending springs flying. That has held up more builds than I care to mention. Currently I have a rifle with no dust cover because I dropped the clamp that holds the pivot rod in place.

If you don't have the tools I'm sure there's a TGOer close to you that would let you borrow theirs.

 

Main component most folks won't be able to handle themselves is installation of a pinned A2 gas block/sight base, if that's the route you want to go:

 

 

- OS

[Mark A]

Thanks to everyone for the info so far...

 

Not going to do A2 sight..

 

This is a classic case of not knowing what I didn't know: I obviously didn't know I was creating this in the reloading forum... Meant to do it in the long guns forum although even that would probably have been technically wrong...

[Mark A]

OK, lower parts kits ordered. On to the next things...

 

I've been looking at Bravo Companies website just to see what they had. All of their short barrel stuff indicated NFA which makes sense on the surface.

 

But, how do you order a short barrel for an AR pistol? Do they have a form you fill out promising to be a good boy?

 

 

Thanks again (and about a million more times in the future if I forget...)

 

Mark

[glockster157]

If you are building a pistol then no need for paper. If you want a SBR then post this question in the NFA section of TGO

Edited October 3, 2013 by glockster157

[Oh Shoot]

OK, lower parts kits ordered. On to the next things...

 

I've been looking at Bravo Companies website just to see what they had. All of their short barrel stuff indicated NFA which makes sense on the surface.

 

But, how do you order a short barrel for an AR pistol? Do they have a form you fill out promising to be a good boy?

 

 

Thanks again (and about a million more times in the future if I forget...)

 

Mark

 

There's nothing illegal about selling or buying a short barrel.

 

Possessing it though, the ruling on "constructive possession" since SCOTUS ruling in 1992 is that:

 

"... an NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they ... serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm ..."

 

Translation: if you have a legal use for a group of parts, assembled or unassembled, it's okay even there were an illegal use also.

 

Example: you have a complete AR rifle and a short barrel only -- technically illegal, as the barrel could only be used illegally by recombine the parts.

Example: you have a complete AR rifle and a virgin lower and a short barrel -- fine, because you could recombine the parts to make a legal pistol.

 

If you have no AR stuff, owning just a short barrel is fine, as there's nothing illegal you can make. Actually, you can then own any groupings of parts even if you don't have all of them to complete the pistol, since there is still no way to make an illegal firearm.

 

Note: Stocks and vertical forward grips are the bugaboos in all this AR pistol stuff -- if all you own is an AR pistol or parts to make one,  I would not own a stock at all, as the only possible "useful purpose" for it would be to make an NFA firearm, whether you use a buffer tube that will accept it or not. Same with a vertical forward grip, unless the pistol is 26" or more in legal over all length. "Close proximity" is not defined, and thus I consider my entire property to be "close enough", push come to shove.

 

Obviously, very unlikely to get in trouble for any of that type stuff unless you came under ATF radar for something else, but no since taking the least chance since the penalties are so high.

 

- OS

Edited October 3, 2013 by Oh Shoot