Hunting Pistol Optics...Red Dot or Crosshairs?

[Sidewinder]

I have a Ruger MK lll Hunter, and am considering a scope for hunting small game with it. I'd like to hear from those of you who have used this gun with optics. Did you install a red dot or crosshairs? Why did you choose the one that you chose? Is one better than the other on a Ruger Hunter, and if so, why? Makes and models and their advantages would be good too. The scope I choose needs to be inexpensive... I don't want to spend as much on the scope as I did on the gun. Details...Details...Details! Thanks for your help.

[PackinMama]

I have the same gun and currently I have a cheap BSA red dot on it. It works great and I have been picking off golf balls with it at 25 yds. with no problems whatsoever. The bad thing about it is that it's just too darn big for my liking. I've never had a scope of any kind on a pistol and it just makes the gun seem too big and bulky, and although I haven't looked yet, finding a holster to accommodate the setup might be a challenge. I've done some research and I've decided that I will eventually be getting a Burris Fastfire III for it. They get very good reviews and you can get one with either a 3 or an 8 MOA dot. The best thing is that they are very small and weigh less than 1 oz., which I think will work out much better on my MK III.

[cannoncocker]

I do not recommend a handgun scope for your application.  A decent handgun scope is not inexpensive.  Further, they have (depending on magnification) an optimum eye relief of 10-25 inches.  Unless shooting from a rest, obtaining optimum eye relief is not easily accomplished when shooting off hand with a 42 oz. pistol decorated with a 14 oz. scope. My choice would be a light weight red dot with no more than a 3 mil size dot.

 

I like the Primary Arms Micro Dot which sells for around $80.00, weighs 4.5 oz and has a 3 mil dot.  It is perfect for your Ruger.  My eyes are the same vintage as yours and I have no problems using it on my .22 pistols out to 50 meters.  Target acquisition is very quick, especially when shooting with both eyes open (something I cannot do with my Burris pistol scope).

[hipower]

I personally prefer a crosshair to a red dot for sighting, but have to agree with cannoncocker on this. I tried a small, inexpensive(read cheap) scope on the MKIII 22/45 and was not very happy. Changed it over to another cheap red dot and found it much easier to hold steady and shoot with.

At some point, I intend to go for a better red dot on my Target/Hunter version.

[Jonnin]

A good Red dot  (small dot but no magnification) is sufficient to hit a 1-2 inch target at 50 yards.  If you need to do more than that, you need magnification.  I personally find the magnification to be very annoying and hard to use, and as others stated, getting the eye relief right is also tricky for some setups.   I kept a traditional pistol scope on my 223 and while it makes 100-200 yard shots pretty well, anything under 100 yards the red dot is IMHO a much better choice.   If you were asking about taking a big magnum out deer hunting, it would be a tossup. 

[jeff43]

Get you a Millet red dot SP-1, they are about $50 or $60 and have a tiny dot 3MOA.

[spikehunter]

I have the tasco red dot on my s&w 22 and works great. Best part is I got it off ebay for 23 bucks new. I can knock off golfballs at 25 yards pretty easy off hand. I do wish it had a three moa dot. I'm currently looking/deciding on a decent 3 moa dot for my contender for deer hunting. I also have a couple handguns with scopes, and for non precision hunting or less than 100 yards I think it would be hard to beat a red dot. I am really just now discovering this tho.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks to everyone for your honest suggestions about some sort of scope on my Ruger MK lll Hunter.

 

PackinMama...Sounds like you do pretty well with the BSA. I'm also worried about winding up with too much "stuff" on top of my gun. But, I can't pull the load on that $250 Burris FastFire lll, even though it looks like it would be the cat's meow.

 

Cannoncocker...I'll probably try your method of no scope for a while. Not sure if I'll be able to do head shots on tree rats at the top of tall trees! That Primary Arms @ $80 might work for me.

 

Hipower...I can see where the crosshair would be hard to get settled down in a reasonable time. The inexpensive red dot seems like the way to go. I may have a couple in a drawer. I'll try open sights for a while...may even try those light-pipes on the rear sight for the woods.

 

Jonnin...I will probably go with your red dot suggestion, with no magnification. Hope I can hit a 1" to 2" targer @ 50 yards.

 

Jeff43... The Millet SP-1 red dot @ $50 - $60 with a tiny 3 moa dot just might be doable for me. I'm thinking I might want something where I can go back and forth to the open sights for fun plinking.

 

Spikehunter... I don't think I have a Tasco red dot. But knocking around golf balls @ 25 yards sounds fun to me. I hope you find one for your Contender, and bag a monster buck! Those Contenders are a lot of fun aren't they? I like the idea of change out barrels for different calibers.

[Sidewinder]

I do not recommend a handgun scope for your application.  A decent handgun scope is not inexpensive.  Further, they have (depending on magnification) an optimum eye relief of 10-25 inches.  Unless shooting from a rest, obtaining optimum eye relief is not easily accomplished when shooting off hand with a 42 oz. pistol decorated with a 14 oz. scope. My choice would be a light weight red dot with no more than a 3 mil size dot.

 

I like the Primary Arms Micro Dot which sells for around $80.00, weighs 4.5 oz and has a 3 mil dot.  It is perfect for your Ruger.  My eyes are the same vintage as yours and I have no problems using it on my .22 pistols out to 50 meters.  Target acquisition is very quick, especially when shooting with both eyes open (something I cannot do with my Burris pistol scope).

Cannoncocker, thanks for the insight on scopes for my Ruger MK lll Hunter. I was worried about that eye relief distance, as I had planned on shooting 0ff hand, in the field and woods. I am also worried about the glare behind me in the scope lens...the mirror effect. For instance, if you're shooting with the sun behind you, can you readily see the red dot or crosshairs?

[Sidewinder]

I have the tasco red dot on my s&w 22 and works great. Best part is I got it off ebay for 23 bucks new. I can knock off golfballs at 25 yards pretty easy off hand. I do wish it had a three moa dot. I'm currently looking/deciding on a decent 3 moa dot for my contender for deer hunting. I also have a couple handguns with scopes, and for non precision hunting or less than 100 yards I think it would be hard to beat a red dot. I am really just now discovering this tho.

Spikehunter, others have also suggested the red dot. If you're shooting with the sun behind you, do you have a problem sighting in on your game/target due to the glare/mirror effect?

[Sidewinder]

Get you a Millet red dot SP-1, they are about $50 or $60 and have a tiny dot 3MOA.

Jeff43, what kind of gun do you have your Millet Red Dot SP-1 on? Also, do you use it for target shooting or hunting? I've heard that bright sun tends to wash out a small red dot, when the sun is behind you. What have your experiences been in this area... any problems?

[Sidewinder]

A good Red dot  (small dot but no magnification) is sufficient to hit a 1-2 inch target at 50 yards.  If you need to do more than that, you need magnification.  I personally find the magnification to be very annoying and hard to use, and as others stated, getting the eye relief right is also tricky for some setups.   I kept a traditional pistol scope on my 223 and while it makes 100-200 yard shots pretty well, anything under 100 yards the red dot is IMHO a much better choice.   If you were asking about taking a big magnum out deer hunting, it would be a tossup. 

Jonnin, I had hoped to be able to do some small game hunting with this pistol. I'd also like to use it to punch some holes in paper, tin cans, hedge apples, bottle caps, or whatever. For the limited range of the .22LR out of this 6 7/8" barrel, I doubt any magnification would be necessary. I have a .357 Magnum Blackhawk, but plan to keep the open iron sights on it.

[Sidewinder]

I personally prefer a crosshair to a red dot for sighting, but have to agree with cannoncocker on this. I tried a small, inexpensive(read cheap) scope on the MKIII 22/45 and was not very happy. Changed it over to another cheap red dot and found it much easier to hold steady and shoot with.

At some point, I intend to go for a better red dot on my Target/Hunter version.

Hipower, I also prefer the crosshair to a red dot. Maybe I'm "old school", but I remember when crosshair was the only choice. That said, the old eyes don't see as well as they once did, so maybe I had better go with the red dot. Were you doing any in woods hunting with yours, or mostly target shooting?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Most cheap red dots will survive on a 22 pistol. Where the cost comes in is with battery life and brightness. Most cheap Doctor Optic clones have a battery life of less than a week if left on. Now my Burris Fast has battery life that is amazing. I leave it on all the time and I will generally get over a year before I need to replace the battery. And with the Fast Fire I put a piece of tape over the eye because it can sometimes be too bright. But with the clones the sun washes the dot out.

You could be able to find a decent red dot for under $75. Not the best but far from he worst.

Above all else make sure that the sight can be turned off.

[PackinMama]

I just picked up a Pentax mini red dot for my MK III for $80 from Sportsmans Guide. It has a 5 moa red dot and the adjustment is 1/2" MOA per click. Most of the cheaper red dots are 1" per click, so this one should be much more precise when sighting it in.

It's not a Fastfire, but for the money, it seems like a good value.

I'll let you know how I like it after I get it sighted in, but so far I'm impressed with initial quality. I'll see how it does with the sun behind me as well.

[LawVol]

I have a Fastfire III on an Allchin mount on my 686.  This setup is so easy to shoot, it feels like cheating.  

 

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If you like the Fastfire, you can save some bucks by going with the II instead of the III.  I also like the Allchin mount for the Ruger Mk III.  It gets the Fastfire closer to the gun than a rail mount.  http://allchingunparts.com/details.php?prodId=71&category=2

 

If you go with the Primary Arms micro-dot, I have read that the Aimpoint Ruger mount will work.  Again, it would get the sight closer to the gun than the rail.  http://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-Ruger-Mount-Micro-Sights/dp/B0057AZZPI

 

Can you tell I've looked into this myself?    :pleased: 

[Sidewinder]

I just picked up a Pentax mini red dot for my MK III for $80 from Sportsmans Guide. It has a 5 moa red dot and the adjustment is 1/2" MOA per click. Most of the cheaper red dots are 1" per click, so this one should be much more precise when sighting it in.

It's not a Fastfire, but for the money, it seems like a good value.

I'll let you know how I like it after I get it sighted in, but so far I'm impressed with initial quality. I'll see how it does with the sun behind me as well.

Thanks PackinMama, that price range is more to my liking than the uber high priced scopes. It'll be interesting to see what affect the sun behind you has if any. Do you mount yours with a set of quick release rings on your Hunter? If so, have you noticed any sighting problems after taking them off and putting them back on?

[Sidewinder]

I have a Fastfire III on an Allchin mount on my 686.  This setup is so easy to shoot, it feels like cheating.  

 

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If you like the Fastfire, you can save some bucks by going with the II instead of the III.  I also like the Allchin mount for the Ruger Mk III.  It gets the Fastfire closer to the gun than a rail mount.  http://allchingunparts.com/details.php?prodId=71&category=2

 

If you go with the Primary Arms micro-dot, I have read that the Aimpoint Ruger mount will work.  Again, it would get the sight closer to the gun than the rail.  http://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-Ruger-Mount-Micro-Sights/dp/B0057AZZPI

 

Can you tell I've looked into this myself?    :pleased: 

Lawvol, thats a nice piece you have there. The Fastfire looks impressive, but just might be a tad over my budget. I like the clarity of that dot. I doubt it would be affected from glare behind as much as a regular scope. BTW, thanks for the links. I'll check them out, even if "window shopping" is all I can afford to do right now.

[Sidewinder]

Most cheap red dots will survive on a 22 pistol. Where the cost comes in is with battery life and brightness. Most cheap Doctor Optic clones have a battery life of less than a week if left on. Now my Burris Fast has battery life that is amazing. I leave it on all the time and I will generally get over a year before I need to replace the battery. And with the Fast Fire I put a piece of tape over the eye because it can sometimes be too bright. But with the clones the sun washes the dot out.

You could be able to find a decent red dot for under $75. Not the best but far from he worst.

Above all else make sure that the sight can be turned off.

Dolomite, I have two or three cheap red dots laying around that I might try just for grins. I'll probably have to spend some time in the field and woods to decide if I want anything, other than the factory iron sights. My old eyes might need a little help... we'll see how they do on Mr. Squirrel, or Brer Rabbit. Initially, I was thinking crosshairs and magnification, but thanks to the hands on experience of the informative TGOers I've kinda side tracked that idea.

[hipower]

Hipower, I also prefer the crosshair to a red dot. Maybe I'm "old school", but I remember when crosshair was the only choice. That said, the old eyes don't see as well as they once did, so maybe I had better go with the red dot. Were you doing any in woods hunting with yours, or mostly target shooting?

 

I'm pretty much a target shooter.  I do have a red dot on one of my Ruger MKIII, but the temptation to get an "old fashioned optical scope" is very great.

[Jonnin]

Lawvol, thats a nice piece you have there. The Fastfire looks impressive, but just might be a tad over my budget. I like the clarity of that dot. I doubt it would be affected from glare behind as much as a regular scope. BTW, thanks for the links. I'll check them out, even if "window shopping" is all I can afford to do right now.

 

The tube red dot sights are not that much more than the window type.  Its the same electronics anyway, I think  --- both systems reflect the dot onto a single pane of glass ---  so all you are paying for "extra" is additional plastic around the system.   I dunno,

 

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Green-Sight-Adaptor-Flip-Open/dp/B004HICPHW/ref=sr_1_3/181-1398368-6057116?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1382013860&sr=1-3&keywords=red-dot+sight

 

came up in my search at $45.    This type eliminates the glare, and if you still have problems you can get "lens caps" that are polarized to go over some models.

 

Both types can have issues with reflections and glare depending on the lighting, but the tube offeres the filter caps and the window  does not have any options that I know of.   Also, I cracked 3 of the window type on my .22 -- best I can tell it was from being hit by spent cases bouncing back.  I have yet to destroy a tube, so they *seem* to me to be slightly more rugged.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Jonnin

[Sidewinder]

The tube red dot sights are not that much more than the window type.  Its the same electronics anyway, I think  --- both systems reflect the dot onto a single pane of glass ---  so all you are paying for "extra" is additional plastic around the system.   I dunno,

 

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Green-Sight-Adaptor-Flip-Open/dp/B004HICPHW/ref=sr_1_3/181-1398368-6057116?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1382013860&sr=1-3&keywords=red-dot+sight

 

came up in my search at $45.    This type eliminates the glare, and if you still have problems you can get "lens caps" that are polarized to go over some models.

 

Both types can have issues with reflections and glare depending on the lighting, but the tube offeres the filter caps and the window  does not have any options that I know of.   Also, I cracked 3 of the window type on my .22 -- best I can tell it was from being hit by spent cases bouncing back.  I have yet to destroy a tube, so they *seem* to me to be slightly more rugged.

Jonnin, I appreciate the information and the link. It looks like this might be a possibility. I'm probably being too selective in trying to find something with a low profile on top of my MK lll Hunter, that isn't too expensive, and at the same time will give me a good sight picture in bright sunlight. Maybe something that would allow me to make a head shot on a squirre,l in the average tree height for Middle Tennessee. The same for other small game, whether in a tree or on the ground... maybe even stick one behind Mr. Coyote's ear, if he happens to wonder by at close range. Maybe my wants are of champaigne taste, but my wallet is of a beer budget! Thanks again.

[frankmako]

go with the red dot.  

[Sidewinder]

go with the red dot.  

Frank, do you hunt with one in the woods? If so, any problem with back glare? Which red dot do you use? What gun do you have it on?

[spikehunter]

The red dot I have is more difficult to see when the sun is behind you or just sunny in general. However, when you turn up the brightness it is not really an issue. And yes lawvol it seems like cheating. How do you like your burris fastfire? I have heard really good things about primary arms and am thinking hard about that for my contender which i love by the way. Edited October 21, 2013 by spikehunter