Umph... tough, tough spot.

[Lumber_Jack]

I garuntee that Range Rover could have destroyed all those bikes and kept driving, even on flat tires.  I would have squished those bastards like I was playing an old school version of Spy Hunter.  Of course like others, I would have shot at least the two that approached the car and tried to open the door. (yes I know if was NY)

 

a couple of side notes. 

 

why was his door not locked? The guy in the video just opens the door.

 

If you're surrounded by bikers with cars in front of you, BACK THE FUCK UP!!! That bitch is 4wd in reverse too.  There would be grease spots all the way into the next county if I had too, but I wouldnt just sit there. 

[Wyldk2]

After thinking it over, I changed my mind. I don't know what i would do in a situation like this. If I were the driver and had 200+bikers angry at me for an accident and no cops were to be found, If my family were with me( if i had a wife and kids) I would hope to be able to wait around for the authorities to show up, But sometimes the initial reaction is to get away from the danger of so many mad people at once. You think about getting your loved ones to safety and that is all that is on your mind at the time. So running, leaving the scene of an accident to save your wife or girlfriend and your kids would be worth the time being arrested and put into jail. Just knowing they are safe is worth my going to jail. Listen, In a perfect world we would not need the cops, or fear of being beaten to near death or death for just making a mistake. In a perfect world we would not feel the need to arm ourselves just because we can and have that right. But, Unfortunately we do not live ina perfect world.

 

Now, a person or a small group of people( say half dozen) can be reasonable, but you have the numbers involved on one side in this and it's more "mob" mentality. People believe they are stronger in numbers and will go along if they don't know all the facts. Just to help a friend or friend of a friend in their group.

 

If it were a group of bikers against a group of RR drivers, Who do you think would win? If it were one biker and he caused an accident and several vehicle drivers saw it, what do you think they would do? call the police? chase him down?.... What would happen if the tables or roles had been reversed?

[Wiljo05]

When your enemies out weigh the number of rounds you have, you gotta find an alternate weapon / means to defend yourself.
I've rode motorcycles for years, and 100% say mow em over if they have surrounded you and are threatening. I showed my wife the video, and asked her what she would do, she said I would try not to run over the ones not trying to get in the car. At that point I told her I deem them as guilty as the others because
A) they are blocking my exit intentionally
B) guilty by association. They didn't have to follow the monkeys trying to get into the car.

And yes, I saw 2 instances where I would have fired my weapon.

That RR would have looked like it rolled down a mountain, because I refuse to go out without a fight

[Wingshooter]

I would have hit the gas too with that mob trying to get into my vehicle. I would immediately get on the phone with 911 and tell them that I was being chased and in fear for my life. If I had enough fuel, I'd stay on the highway until the helicopters and cops showed up. The name of the game would be to keep the mob from dragging me and my family out for a mauling or worse.

[TMF]

After thinking it over, I changed my mind. I don't know what i would do in a situation like this. If I were the driver and had 200+bikers angry at me for an accident and no cops were to be found, If my family were with me( if i had a wife and kids) I would hope to be able to wait around for the authorities to show up, But sometimes the initial reaction is to get away from the danger of so many mad people at once. You think about getting your loved ones to safety and that is all that is on your mind at the time. So running, leaving the scene of an accident to save your wife or girlfriend and your kids would be worth the time being arrested and put into jail. Just knowing they are safe is worth my going to jail. Listen, In a perfect world we would not need the cops, or fear of being beaten to near death or death for just making a mistake. In a perfect world we would not feel the need to arm ourselves just because we can and have that right. But, Unfortunately we do not live ina perfect world.

Now, a person or a small group of people( say half dozen) can be reasonable, but you have the numbers involved on one side in this and it's more "mob" mentality. People believe they are stronger in numbers and will go along if they don't know all the facts. Just to help a friend or friend of a friend in their group.

If it were a group of bikers against a group of RR drivers, Who do you think would win? If it were one biker and he caused an accident and several vehicle drivers saw it, what do you think they would do? call the police? chase him down?.... What would happen if the tables or roles had been reversed?

It wasn't a hit and run though. They intentionally stopped traffic in order to immobilize that RR for whatever reason. He rear ends the bike in the beginning because the bike locked up his brakes in order to stop the RR. Then they surrounded him and attempted some street justice for whatever reason, so he ran one of them the hell over to escape.

As far as rounds go, you don't need 200 rds to take care of a crowd of 200 gang members. Really you just need to kill the most aggressive one. Their cowards, which is why they need to roam in packs. Kill the pack leader and they'll look to save themselves. Just look at any video of a shooting in which an armed citizen takes on multiple armed attackers. You'll find very few, if any, where the bad guys stay and duke it out, even with superior numbers. My AK would have started barking at the beginning of this video, and I can bet that even if every last one of them was armed none of them would have the nuts to shoot back. You'd see nothing but a**holes and elbows.

[TMF]

Meh. Bad decisions all round. Trying to run from about 100 motorcyclists though... Good luck with that.

If there were a couple hundred of violent gangsters surrounding your vehicle with your wife and small child inside what would you do? Just sit there and hope they only kill you?

I take my role as husband and father very seriously. I assume this guy did too. The motorist did nothing wrong. He was intentionally brake checked by one of the bikers and subsequently attacked. He only tried to get away for the safety of his family. What exactly was his "bad decision"?

[Chucktshoes]

If there were a couple hundred of violent gangsters surrounding your vehicle with your wife and small child inside what would you do? Just sit there and hope they only kill you?

I take my role as husband and father very seriously. I assume this guy did too. The motorist did nothing wrong. He was intentionally brake checked by one of the bikers and subsequently attacked. He only tried to get away for the safety of his family. What exactly was his "bad decision"?

Best I can figure, the closest he came to making a bad decision was the amount of restraint he showed by not going all Carmageddon on the shitbags.

[Wingshooter]

I just watched the video again. You know, if he RR would have brake checked the bikes on his bumper during the high speed chase, it may have wiped out the whole group.

[TMF]

Just watched this again and now I'm all worked up. One of the things that will get me spitting angry is a group of people picking on the perceived weak. They do it because they can. Mobs need to suffer the great equalizer of standard capacity magazines, then lets see how strong they are.

[Wingshooter]

I can't believe he let them smash the window like that without dropping it into reverse and plowing right through that mob

[TMF]

I'm not surprised. In a situation like he was in he had three options: fight, flight or submit. When in that situation instincts take over your decision making, especially if you haven't been in such life threatening situations before. Obviously, fight was not an option due to being outnumbered, so he originally fled when first attacked. The reason he didnt use his vehicle as a weapon while in the road is because his victim mentality reasoned not to further provoke his attackers and just get away. Once he was cornered he probably felt as if he couldn't get away and chose to submit. He got beat badly for it, and luckily his wife and kid, who were terrorized did not get beaten as well.

There are few alpha personalities out there who would have taken a more aggressive stance toward this assault. I have a "meet violence with superior violence mentality" as I believe it is a more effective deterrent than running or submitting. The reason I believe this is because the majority of criminals are really cowards at heart, and will respond to superior violence by backing down. Whatever it is they want isn't worth death or great bodily injury, however, I'm more than willing to kill someone or greatly injure them in order to protect myself or my family. Conversely, running away only emboldens your attacker to be more aggressive, in the same way running away from a dog will embolden it to attack you, but when you turn and face it the dog will stay at a safe distance. Submitting can either embolden or dissuade an attacker. Really weak people will react to total submission of another with greater violence because it is their opportunity to do something they normally don't get to do; wield their power over another human being. It could also dissuade a person who has no drive to simply power over another, such as robbers who just want money. At any rate, choosing to submit puts all the power in your attacker's hands, and I'm not willing to give them the power of choosing my fate or the fate of my family and hoping I come out okay.

Being predisposed to commit limitless violence in defense of yourself puts you in a different category than the vast majority of your fellow Americans. Unfortunately, the odds are against these cowards ever coming face to face with people who won't tolerate this. Edited October 1, 2013 by TMF

[TMF]

Another article on this pulled from The Drudge. The victim here was not only severely beaten but also stabbed in the face. Looks like he had every reason to fear for his life when he fled in the beginning. These biker douches should be systematically exterminated like vermin.


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585

[Sam1]

This is the situation we can now use for arguing on why people need 100 round drums on their rifles!

[runco]

There was one law that was on the Range Rover's side, Force = Mass x Acceleration.

 

Typical crotch rocket weighs ~700 lbs

Typical Range Rover weighs ~4,000 lbs

 

Let the brains do the rest!

[tennessee01tacoma]

I would give as many of them as I could an extra hole to breathe out of and when I ran out of bullets I would have used that RR to clear a way out

[Lumber_Jack]

There was one law that was on the Range Rover's side, Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Typical crotch rocket weighs ~700 lbs
Typical Range Rover weighs ~4,000 lbs

Let the brains do the rest!

One correction Range Rover GVW ~ 6500 lbs :D

[peejman]

I'm a rider and I can't imagine this happening.  I too would've mashed a few bikes and gotten the hell outa dodge.  Heading into the city was stupid, but getting cornered and attacked like that...  it would've been ugly.

 

This illustrates a couple points...    1) Mob mentality takes over real fast, and 2) When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[Guest Brutnus]

I never want to be put in that situation but i think he handled as best as he could. Scary part about all this was a large number of the bikes didn't have plates on, so they knew they would be causing chaos and the police don't know who they are.

[Chucktshoes]

There are few alpha personalities out there who would have taken a more aggressive stance toward this assault. I have a "meet violence with superior violence mentality" as I believe it is a more effective deterrent than running or submitting. The reason I believe this is because the majority of criminals are really cowards at heart, and will respond to superior violence by backing down. Whatever it is they want isn't worth death or great bodily injury, however, I'm more than willing to kill someone or greatly injure them in order to protect myself or my family. Conversely, running away only emboldens your attacker to be more aggressive, in the same way running away from a dog will embolden it to attack you, but when you turn and face it the dog will stay at a safe distance. Submitting can either embolden or dissuade an attacker. Really weak people will react to total submission of another with greater violence because it is their opportunity to do something they normally don't get to do; wield their power over another human being. It could also dissuade a person who has no drive to simply power over another, such as robbers who just want money. At any rate, choosing to submit puts all the power in your attacker's hands, and I'm not willing to give them the power of choosing my fate or the fate of my family and hoping I come out okay.

Being predisposed to commit limitless violence in defense of yourself puts you in a different category than the vast majority of your fellow Americans. Unfortunately, the odds are against these cowards ever coming face to face with people who won't tolerate this.

I hold the same view in regards to the use of overwhelming force/violence to respond to violent aggression. Interestingly enough (to me) I can pinpoint the introduction of this theory into my thought processes. Reading Ender's internal monologue in the battle gym scene in "Ender's Game". As a kid who was bullied at the time, the concept clicked. It took a long time for me to physically be able to effectively apply the lessons learned, I stopped running and started fighting.

[Chucktshoes]

Damn it. Edited October 1, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[tnguy]

If there were a couple hundred of violent gangsters surrounding your vehicle with your wife and small child inside what would you do? Just sit there and hope they only kill you?

I take my role as husband and father very seriously. I assume this guy did too. The motorist did nothing wrong. He was intentionally brake checked by one of the bikers and subsequently attacked. He only tried to get away for the safety of his family. What exactly was his "bad decision"?

 

If the gangsters were on motorcycles, I wouldn't hold much chance to outrun them.

 

As to anything else... That's a tricky one. There may be no good answers and there may be nuances. I also don't want to be seen as endorsing the overall behavior of that group which, definitely seemed pretty bad even in the first few seconds of that video. With that said, at first, regardless of the numbers, it was possibly just a simple traffic accident in which people are supposed to stop, take care of the injured and exchange details. Running and ramming bikes is an immediate escalation (regardless of being "right" or not). Then again, it is probably understandable from the POV of the driver as a panic fight-or-flight reaction and many people have a distorted view of motorcyclists, as they do gun owners (it's just a regular dude who happens to be riding a motorcycle).

 

Again, no answers, just points to consider.

[tnguy]

There are few alpha personalities out there who would have taken a more aggressive stance toward this assault. I have a "meet violence with superior violence mentality" as I believe it is a more effective deterrent than running or submitting. The reason I believe this is because the majority of criminals are really cowards at heart, and will respond to superior violence by backing down. Whatever it is they want isn't worth death or great bodily injury, however, I'm more than willing to kill someone or greatly injure them in order to protect myself or my family. Conversely, running away only emboldens your attacker to be more aggressive, in the same way running away from a dog will embolden it to attack you, but when you turn and face it the dog will stay at a safe distance. Submitting can either embolden or dissuade an attacker. Really weak people will react to total submission of another with greater violence because it is their opportunity to do something they normally don't get to do; wield their power over another human being. It could also dissuade a person who has no drive to simply power over another, such as robbers who just want money. At any rate, choosing to submit puts all the power in your attacker's hands, and I'm not willing to give them the power of choosing my fate or the fate of my family and hoping I come out okay.

Being predisposed to commit limitless violence in defense of yourself puts you in a different category than the vast majority of your fellow Americans. Unfortunately, the odds are against these cowards ever coming face to face with people who won't tolerate this.

 

Interesting point. A weapon may have allowed for a more peaceful outcome. By raising the stakes (on either or both sides), precipitation of violence may have have been avoided and appropriate negotiation (calling of the emergency services, first aid for the injured, exchange of insurance details) allowed to proceed. With no direct way to defend himself, the RR driver was placed in an untenable position.
 

[TMF]

I hold the same view in regards to the use of overwhelming force/violence to respond to violent aggression. Interestingly enough (to me) I can pinpoint the introduction of this theory into my thought processes. Reading Ender's internal monologue in the battle gym scene in "Ender's Game". As a kid who was bullied at the time, the concept clicked. It took a long time for me to physically be able to effectively apply the lessons learned, I stopped running and started fighting.

 

For me it occurred when me and my buddy beat the crap out of a bully from the 8th grade while we were in 6th grade.  Turned out he was just a little biatch that happened to be bigger than us.  My buddy snapped one day and hit him so I joined in.  He cried.  Maybe I did too.  I remember being so angry but having tears coming out at the same time.  I learned a lot from that incident.  Then I went to war and fought a cowardly enemy that did the same thing; real tough when they had the upper hand but cried like women when they were facing their own death.

[TMF]

If the gangsters were on motorcycles, I wouldn't hold much chance to outrun them.

 

As to anything else... That's a tricky one. There may be no good answers and there may be nuances. I also don't want to be seen as endorsing the overall behavior of that group which, definitely seemed pretty bad even in the first few seconds of that video. With that said, at first, regardless of the numbers, it was possibly just a simple traffic accident in which people are supposed to stop, take care of the injured and exchange details. Running and ramming bikes is an immediate escalation (regardless of being "right" or not). Then again, it is probably understandable from the POV of the driver as a panic fight-or-flight reaction and many people have a distorted view of motorcyclists, as they do gun owners (it's just a regular dude who happens to be riding a motorcycle).

 

Again, no answers, just points to consider.

 

By all accounts this man did stop.  He only fled when his vehicle was being attacked by bikers.  I realize it is difficult to see on the tape, but it happened based on the story and witness account.  He very well may have stayed to do the legally right thing until he was attacked.  However, they aggressed him and he tried to flee.  Not really many options in that scenario, especially when you have a defenseless child and wife.  They likely did call 911 during the pursuit, the cops just didn't get there in time.  His only mistake was getting off the interstate, but perhaps he was trying to make it to a police precinct.

 

I don't know if you have children or not, but if you do, I'd like you to remember having a two year old.  Now imagine your two year old in the back seat of a vehicle that is being assaulted from all sides by a mob of criminal bikers that have shut off all avenues of escape.  If you don't have a child I don't know how you could possibly understand the dire situation this guy was in.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I would have considered my life to be in danger. I would have run over many more until they got the point. That RR

guy was showing restraint. I know he had to be scared to death.

 

That looked like something out of a Mad Max movie.