Need help with AR issue

[KahrMan]

I took my nephew shooting today.  I was letting him shoot my 458 socom.  We had run several rounds thru it with no problems.  Put a fresh mag in, chambered a round, pulled the trigger and it went click.  Now it seems stuck.  The charging handle will not budge.  I can not pull it back to eject the round.  The lower cam off with no problem but the bolt will not retract.

 

What is my next step?

[Garufa]

If it was me I'd put the upper in a vise of some type, make sure the firing pin is still floating and either: 1) give the charging handle some whacks with a rubber hammer and if that doesn't work 2) stick a rod down the barrel and whack the end of it with said hammer.

 

Let me reiterate the firing pin.  Assuming it is free floating make sure it is still moving and not somehow stuck before doing all the above.

 

That's what I would do.  I am not a gunsmith or some type of "armorer", just a guy.  Proceed at you own risk.

 

Shooting handloads?

Edited September 28, 2013 by Garufa

[Oh Shoot]

You tried simple "mortaring" first? :

 

Hold down on charging handle, smack stock on firm surface (make sure stock is not extended):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzBdyubc0Uk

 

Do I need to mention muzzle must be pointed in safe direction in case that's a live round in there?

 

 

- OS

Edited September 28, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RWF]

if the carrier seems to frozen, most of the time when that happens it is a blown primer wedge between the carrier or locking lug area. never heard the term mortaring before but have that done several times before. but only seen that work with a stuck case from reloading.

I have seen 2 charging handles bent because of the force need to free the BCG because of a blown primer or equal.

[KahrMan]

Thanks for the replys.  I made the mistake of shooting someone elses reloads.  I found a couple in my bag and my nephew want to shoot a couple of more times.  That was my mistake.

 

OS's suggestion worked.  On the second smack the charging handle released and ejected the round.  Everything seems to be fine now.  Loaded and ejected a few rounds and everything seems ok.  Thanks for the help guys.

 

I was also playing with the slo-mo video feature on my iphone 5s.  Here is a video of my nephew shooting the 458 in slo mo.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZhAW-OSi2c

[Garufa]

Glad you got it worked out.  I didn't recommend "mortaring" because I broke a stock doing that one time.

 

FYI, I never will put someone's else's reloads in one of my guns. 

Edited September 29, 2013 by Garufa

[RWF]

glad it worked for you, like I was trying to say, when the case/round gets stuck its most always from a reload.  

[RWF]

forgot, it looks he was doing great with the 458

[gregintenn]

 

FYI, I never will put someone's else's reloading in one of my guns. 

I have found that these are words to live by. :up:

[Oh Shoot]

glad it worked for you, like I was trying to say, when the case/round gets stuck its most always from a reload.  

 

You get 'em with ARs and Mini14s once in a great while if you shoot steel cased and switch to brass before cleaning.

 

Theory seems to be that the steel deposits more crud in chamber since it doesn't fire form as closely as brass since it doesn't expand as readily,  essentially making chamber tighter,  then the brass round expands and seals in normal precise way and can stick. Or you finally get enough crud buildup and the steel itself can stick.

 

On Mini you can do the "Garand stomp" and the "mortar" on the AR. You generally don't have to hit it very hard, generally more taps than whacks, and usually just on ground does okay, firm enough work without being hard enough to fracture AR stock, though it's important to not do it with the weaker condition of the stock being extended. AR adjustable stocks really aren't good war clubs. :)

 

- OS

Edited September 29, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[austin7.62]

Thanks for the replys.  I made the mistake of shooting someone elses reloads.  I found a couple in my bag and my nephew want to shoot a couple of more times.  That was my mistake.
 
OS's suggestion worked.  On the second smack the charging handle released and ejected the round.  Everything seems to be fine now.  Loaded and ejected a few rounds and everything seems ok.  Thanks for the help guys.
 
I was also playing with the slo-mo video feature on my iphone 5s.  Here is a video of my nephew shooting the 458 in slo mo.
 

Off topic, but can my iPhone 5 do that????

[TMF]

Glad you got it worked out. I didn't recommend "mortaring" because I broke a stock doing that one time.

FYI, I never will put someone's else's reloads in one of my guns.

Man, how hard did ya smack it? I've done this a bunch of times and never came close to breaking the tube off. I guess this could be a real problem with polymer lowers, but with a standard mil spec AR you'd have to put a good amount if man strength behind it to mess it up. Doesn't take much force to free up the bolt using this technique.

[scoutfsu]

I don't think he broke the receiver extension TMF.  I think it was the actual stock.  That happens if you don't collapse it fully or hit it at the wrong angle. 

[mikegideon]

Thanks for the replys.  I made the mistake of shooting someone elses reloads.  I found a couple in my bag and my nephew want to shoot a couple of more times.  That was my mistake.

 

OS's suggestion worked.  On the second smack the charging handle released and ejected the round.  Everything seems to be fine now.  Loaded and ejected a few rounds and everything seems ok.  Thanks for the help guys.

 

I was also playing with the slo-mo video feature on my iphone 5s.  Here is a video of my nephew shooting the 458 in slo mo.

 

 

 

Rightwinger and me went thru the same thing at D&T arms with a .458 SOCOM. I think it was actually my rifle. Loaded a dummy round that was made by a customer. When you get one stuck in that gun, it's really stuck. Get you one of these...

 

http://www.sbrammunition.com/reloading.html

[Dolomite_supafly]

The reloads are not sized down enough for your gun.

 

I will caution about mortaring an AR. I have seen several AR's break where the buffer tube and the lower meet while doing this. When I stick a round I use a rubber mallet and smack the charging handle.

[TMF]

The reloads are not sized down enough for your gun.

I will caution about mortaring an AR. I have seen several AR's break where the buffer tube and the lower meet while doing this. When I stick a round I use a rubber mallet and smack the charging handle.

Like I said before, that takes a bit of man strength to make happen. I ran a lot of ranges when I was in the army and this was the technique we used when folks would get stuck. Never took a lot of force to free up, and I've never seen a person break their stock or separate the tube from the lower. Not saying a combat silverback wouldn't be capable of doing it, it just doesn't require that much force.

[BigK]

Pretty cool trick, if used wisely. Kinda like the opposite of the forward assist.

[Garufa]

Man, how hard did ya smack it? I've done this a bunch of times and never came close to breaking the tube off. I guess this could be a real problem with polymer lowers, but with a standard mil spec AR you'd have to put a good amount if man strength behind it to mess it up. Doesn't take much force to free up the bolt using this technique.

 

What broke was the bolt that holds on the adjusting lever thing and locks the stock into place.

[mikegideon]

What broke was the bolt that holds on the adjusting lever thing and locks the stock into place.

 

.458's are notorious for breaking those with just recoil.

[mikegideon]

The reloads are not sized down enough for your gun.

 

 

I don't know how that can happen, either. I know it does from that episode at D&T. My brass is perfect when it comes out of the sizing die. Never had a round fail the chamber gauge in that caliber.

[Rightwinger]

Paul,

Get on 458 Socom Forums and get who ever is handling Marty's business while he's out of the country or see if someone will sell you their case chamber.  SBR may have some as well but get a case gauge and run every round, factory or reload through it before you shoot them. 

http://www.sbrammunition.com/index.html

 

I heard they were going to be helping manufacture uppers when Marty went overseas but I don't see them on the website.

 

Like Mike said, it's a notorious problem for the round due to it's size and so many reloads being done.  The one we had at the shop was just pushed together on an empty case from one of our other customers after he did a batch of lead solid castings.  It did NOT want to chamber and I had to do a bit of tapping on the charging handle of Mike's RRA upper to get it free.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I don't know how that can happen, either. I know it does from that episode at D&T. My brass is perfect when it comes out of the sizing die. Never had a round fail the chamber gauge in that caliber.

That was meant for the OP not you Mike.

 

Like I said before, that takes a bit of man strength to make happen. I ran a lot of ranges when I was in the army and this was the technique we used when folks would get stuck. Never took a lot of force to free up, and I've never seen a person break their stock or separate the tube from the lower. Not saying a combat silverback wouldn't be capable of doing it, it just doesn't require that much force.

 
The times I have seen it the person wasn't trying it once, twice or three time but a dozen or more times and bringing it from left field. I guess they figured more momentum would help. One I watched a guy drop the rifle from chest height repeatedly until the lower cracked at the rear takedown pin hole. Most times I don't stick around once they start, I have seen guns bounce and point where they were supposed to.
 
BTW, these were NOT military weapons. They were personally owned guns at private ranges.

[mikegideon]

Paul,

Get on 458 Socom Forums and get who ever is handling Marty's business while he's out of the country or see if someone will sell you their case chamber.  SBR may have some as well but get a case gauge and run every round, factory or reload through it before you shoot them. 

http://www.sbrammunition.com/index.html

 

I heard they were going to be helping manufacture uppers when Marty went overseas but I don't see them on the website.

 

Like Mike said, it's a notorious problem for the round due to it's size and so many reloads being done.  The one we had at the shop was just pushed together on an empty case from one of our other customers after he did a batch of lead solid castings.  It did NOT want to chamber and I had to do a bit of tapping on the charging handle of Mike's RRA upper to get it free.

 

I have never had one stick since that one at D&T. That one could have been a bullet seated too long as well. I haven't tried that, but the rifling is gonna be real grippy if you shove a bullet into it. It won't let the case rotate, so you're working against the force of the extractor and ejector gripping the rim.

[mikegideon]

That was meant for the OP not you Mike.

 

 

 

I know. But it was the same problem, and I have sized a BUNCH of the 458 cases, both new and fired brass. For as big as they are, they're easy to size. It's hard to screw up that part of the process with the 458.

[Rightwinger]

Except for setting the shoulder back....it happens.