Talk to me about AR15 pistols... and Tennessee

[serbu50]

The ATF has refired their quest to stop the AR's the best they can. I have been reading on several other sites that guys keep up with and watch the progress of laws. Anyway, in Tennessee, is it as simple as buying a lower, and when you pick it up at the FFL, have them register it as a pistol instead of a rifle? Thanks guys.

[Chucktshoes]

A stripped lower is listed as a receiver, it is neither a rifle nor a pistol. Build it how you want.

[serbu50]

A stripped lower is listed as a receiver, it is neither a rifle nor a pistol. Build it how you want.

Both FFL's I have done lowers through have asked me "rifle or pistol" on this.....  why would they both adamantly ask me prior to the form? I think it has to be one or the other...

[Spots]

Both FFL's I have done lowers through have asked me "rifle or pistol" on this..... why would they both adamantly ask me prior to the form? I think it has to be one or the other...

According to the ffl I work with, right now its receiver. Its not a pistol or a rifle.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[serbu50]

OK.... copy, thanks

[Spots]

I hope oh shoot doesnt mind me using this

1. We don't have registration in TN

2. As far as the 4473, since 8/2008, all lowers are to be transferred as "other firearm" on question 18 and "receiver" on question 29. Even if it is a complete lower, even if it has a stock on it, even if it's some kind of receiver that can only be built as a rifle. It can't be a "long gun" or a "handgun" without a barreled upper on it. Note there are still some idiot FFLs around, so it's good to check 4473 to be sure, as they fill that part out after you fill out your part.

3. Federally, a virgin lower may be built as rifle or pistol. If it is built as a pistol first, it can go back and forth between pistol and rifle. If it begins life as a rifle, it must forever stay a rifle. This applies to used lowers also, btw, whether you know their history or not.



- OS

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[Chucktshoes]

Both FFL's I have done lowers through have asked me "rifle or pistol" on this..... why would they both adamantly ask me prior to the form? I think it has to be one or the other...

Two choices, ignorance or stupidity on the part of the ffl/employee. The instructions on the 4473 are pretty clear if the person filling out the ffl's portion actually reads them. I have worked in a gun shop, have completed plenty of 4473s and they are a pretty simple and straightforward form to fill out. If I seem a little harsh in my response, it is just that folks screwing up forms like that annoys the crap out of me. It isn't a difficult form to fill out, but if done wrong there is the possibility (no matter how small) of legal repercussions for either the ffl's or the customer and that is simply unacceptable. Edited September 28, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[serbu50]

"3. Federally, a virgin lower may be built as rifle or pistol. If it is built as a pistol first, it can go back and forth between pistol and rifle. If it begins life as a rifle, it must forever stay a rifle. This applies to used lowers also, btw, whether you know their history or not."

 

That right there is a flag... red flag... If I don't have to declare rifle or pistol upon check, then how the heck do they know it can't go back to a pistol from a rifle? See my point... If a receiver is just that, then how is it illegal to go one way but not the other... I don't want to argue, I just don't want to be in violation either...

[KKing]

Your question has been answered already, and I'll concur. Your lower is a receiver, nothing more and nothing less. AR pistols are a hoot for sure. Here's mine

Edited September 28, 2013 by KKing

[serbu50]

They seem neat, and I will try one just for fun. But I want to be able to go back and forth too... obviously not SBR'ing it... but keep the lower useful if I get tired of it..

[KKing]

They seem neat, and I will try one just for fun. But I want to be able to go back and forth too... obviously not SBR'ing it... but keep the lower useful if I get tired of it..

Well if you are skiddish about the law, build it as a pistol, then you can go wherever you please

[serbu50]

Trying to decide if I want to build the upper or buy one... I don't want to end up with a really out of timed bolt release or be over gassed.

[KKing]

[quote name="serbu50" post="1040399" timestamp="1380341494"] Trying to decide if I want to build the upper or buy one... I don't want to end up with a really out of timed bolt release or be over gassed.[/quote] Adjustable gas block and/or heavy buffer. Honestly I think you're doing a lot of worrying over not a lot of matter. I've heard that cheaper barrels tend to have a little bigger gas port than more expensive, higher quality barrels. I can't verify that personally but I can say that the gas port on my pistol barrel is larger than a couple of my other barrels, whatever that means Edited September 28, 2013 by KKing

[Monkeyman2500]

Here's the way I read it. If you buy the new compleat rifle you cannot make it a pistol. If you buy a new pistol version it can be changed back and forth by you. But if you buy a lower, make it a rifle, and then say sell it to an ffl that resells it as a rifle, it's stuck a rifle. I think that's it, sort of.

[TMF]

If the ATF come after you to investigate the origin of you lower to determine whether or not it's a pistol or rifle on the 4473 I'll eat your hat.

[KKing]

If the ATF come after you to investigate the origin of you lower to determine whether or not it's a pistol or rifle on the 4473 I'll eat your hat.

Lol my thoughts exactly

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Just make sure you don't re-assemble it into a SBR. A lower is a lower, otherwise. I've made
a bunch of AR pistols. What OS said is good enough.

If the ATF wants to play, on this one, they will
be wasting time. Their own form tells the story
when you buy a lower.

[Oh Shoot]

"3. Federally, a virgin lower may be built as rifle or pistol. If it is built as a pistol first, it can go back and forth between pistol and rifle. If it begins life as a rifle, it must forever stay a rifle. This applies to used lowers also, btw, whether you know their history or not."

 

That right there is a flag... red flag... If I don't have to declare rifle or pistol upon check, then how the heck do they know it can't go back to a pistol from a rifle? See my point... If a receiver is just that, then how is it illegal to go one way but not the other... I don't want to argue, I just don't want to be in violation either...

 

You're asking about the odds of being caught and charged vs the legal ruling. The legal ruling that a lower first configured as a rifle cannot legally be made into a pistol That includes all firearms, not just ARs. It became settled law with the SCOTUS Thompson Contender decision in 1992. Before that ATF contended a pistol could not be configured into a rifle either.

 

This is one of those things that would likely only ever come up if you were on ATF or other LE radar for other stuff and it wanted an add-on charge or had some other reason to grind the axe on you.

 

Obviously, if you purchased a virgin AR lower, the burden of proof to show you first made a rifle, then later a pistol would be pretty tough. However, if you purchased the lower new configured as a complete rifle, or purchased a used lower that had been first configured as a rifle, could be proven it was first a rifle by going back to manufacturer/distributor/4473 and FFL's bound book.

 

- OS

Edited September 28, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[serbu50]

New virgin lower. I'm honest, and don't want to break any laws. I think I've got my answer. Thanks guys!!!

[KKing]

New virgin lower. I'm honest, and don't want to break any laws. I think I've got my answer. Thanks guys!!!

No fault in that at all, I respect it. Don't think I was trying to give you any grief. I did quite a bit of reading as well before I built my first pistol