beating a dead horse but........

[Jonnin]

Time for some shopping.  Don't you watch The Walking Dead? :wave:

 

I do not watch any TV.   I prefer video gaming and reading in what little free time I have, and if I am doing something else it does not work for me, I can't concentrate on a second task while "watching" tv in the background.   So I have no clue, except to infer from the title that its some sort of zombie blowout. 

[kwe45919]

Geez I thought I was doing ok with 10 loaded mags for mine. 

 

 

I can carry 8 loaded mags on a chest rig and 10 mags worth of ammo on stripper clips. Generally 150rnds per side to even the weight. It's heavy but tolerable with other gear on.

[CQB Elite]

I have a Daniel Defense AR and one I built from a Noveske Upper/Lower set. Having said that I'd suggest getting a Circuit Judge like mentioned before or a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense. Stay away from an AR. Your wife won't be able to "maneuver" about any better with it and if she needs "superior firepower" that much then either you need to move to a safer neighborhood or the sh** has hit the fan.

I'm sure that this is not what you wanted to hear, but you asked what we thought.

[trevorst]

I dont understand the argument a 20g shotgun is easier to maneuver around a house than a 16" barrel AR (no pistol grip ninja's either...).  As for loud you havent lived until you have shot a .357 inside (and yes I have fired an AR indoors).  In a home invasion some hearing loss will be the least of my worries.

 

Think of it this way if I was on one end of your house and you was on the other and you had the choice to arm me with either a judge or an AR and you take the other.   Can you honestly with a straight face say you would choose the Judge over the AR?  Whats to stop a home invader from arming himself with an AR?

 

 

Bottom line with the right ammo an AR is a very effective home defense weapon.  Pistols are for fighting your way to your rifle.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I suppose 9mm AR would need a special stripped upper and couldn't be built on a TGO upper?

[TMF]

Sorry, man. I have quite a different take on this. But I know a lot of guys like you that have had good experiences, even with the plastic lowers. And honestly, I'm glad it's working for you.

I'm sure you've heard it all, so I won't go back into all of it. Sort of pointless, anyway. I'll just close with this. "For me, I'll spend the extra dime and get what I consider is a better product. And YMMV."

Well, in my opinion, I don't think it is good to scare someone who is new to shooting/self defense with price tags and caveats that "anything less isn't good enough"; especially when the vast majority of AR components, such as parts, uppers, lowers and barrels are made in the same place, just given different stamps. The fact is that if there were widespread issues with lower end AR15s it would be well documented and easily accessible information.

Other than a bunch of gun snobs on AR15.com, I don't see issues out there for the type of guy who owns an AR for the occasional plinking and home defense. When we, as people who are more experienced than the newcomer, fill their head with misinformation and scare them with cost prohibitive criteria for AR ownership we're doing the community a disservice. I believe every home in America should have an AR15. Not everyone can drop 1,200-1,600 on a DD rifle or a Noveske. They have bills and stuff. If a person can afford a $600 AR then we should encourage them to buy it so long as the company who makes it is reputable. Smith and Wesson and DPMS both make an AR around that price point. Those companies are every bit as reputable as any other. There are very few AR manufacturers that put out faulty products. The ones that do don't last long and tend to change their names every few years.

[Spurholder]

 

Well, in my opinion, I don't think it is good to scare someone who is new to shooting/self defense with price tags and caveats that "anything less isn't good enough"; especially when the vast majority of AR components, such as parts, uppers, lowers and barrels are made in the same place, just given different stamps. The fact is that if there were widespread issues with lower end AR15s it would be well documented and easily accessible information.

Other than a bunch of gun snobs on AR15.com, I don't see issues out there for the type of guy who owns an AR for the occasional plinking and home defense. When we, as people who are more experienced than the newcomer, fill their head with misinformation and scare them with cost prohibitive criteria for AR ownership we're doing the community a disservice. I believe every home in America should have an AR15. Not everyone can drop 1,200-1,600 on a DD rifle or a Noveske. They have bills and stuff. If a person can afford a $600 AR then we should encourage them to buy it so long as the company who makes it is reputable. Smith and Wesson and DPMS both make an AR around that price point. Those companies are every bit as reputable as any other. There are very few AR manufacturers that put out faulty products. The ones that do don't last long and tend to change their names every few years.

 

Misinformation?  Physician, heal thyself...

 

I'll just drop this right here. 

 

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

 

There's a reason that DPMS/Stag/BM products sell for cheap, and Colt, BCM, DD and a few others cost more.  And honestly, for not much more. 

 

Given the choice between a $600-700 DPMS/Stag?BM (with poor/no BCG staking, a .223 chamber, canted FSB, gas port issues, non-MILSPEC parts) to spending $950-1000 on a Colt, BCM or DD that's a) properly built - to TDP standard - and went through a QC check before it left the factory and b) will run like a sewing machine. 

 

And as I said above, I'm glad it's working for you.  I can't recommend to anyone else that they follow that path, though.

[TMF]

Misinformation? Physician, heal thyself...

Misinformation specifically was referring to the claim that anything less than a Colt won't do the job. That just isn't true. Yes, sometimes firearms fail right off the factory floor, but only when it is systemic is it a problem. We know who those companies and models of firearms that have had those issues. Sometimes it is a very reputable company or popular firearm. Most recently Glock has the issues with their Gen 4 guns. That doesn't mean everything from them is junk.

Also, let me add that I've had Colt's fail too. I've had two "mil spec" bolts in a government issue Colt shear at the lugs. I've seen one blow up in a person's face before. Yet our military trust their lives to the functionality of this rifle. What it comes down to, on any weapon system, is whether or not it will shoot accurately and reliably. Those are the two main criteria. Getting wrapped up in name brands or nit noid features included on higher end guns versus lower end doesn't apply to the two main criteria required to classify a firearm as viable for self defense.

Alls I'm saying is to please not to scare people ignorant to firearms with sweeping generalizations regarding "not good enough" when that isn't true. That is simply opinion. If we're gonna inform people let's do so with facts. Yes, some of those companies make damn fine rifles that are much better quality, but so do manufacturers who sell $3,000 1911s. Does that mean my $1000 1911 isn't good enough to use in self defense simply because there is better stuff out there? We could be here all day making such comparisons.

[scoutfsu]

Also, let me add that I've had Colt's fail too. I've had two "mil spec" bolts in a government issue Colt shear at the lugs. I've seen one blow up in a person's face before. Yet our military trust their lives to the functionality of this rifle. What it comes down to, on any weapon system, is whether or not it will shoot accurately and reliably. Those are the two main criteria. Getting wrapped up in name brands or nit noid features included on higher end guns versus lower end doesn't apply to the two main criteria required to classify a firearm as viable for self defense.
 

 

All bolts will fail eventually.  I'd be tempted to chalk those two failures up to you guy's firing schedules....also depending on your choice of uppers.  And a weapon kabooming is an ammo issue almost all of the time (unless you're getting bullet set back from a dicked up chamber).

[trevorst]

More people have met their maker from Rossi's, Charters, HiPoints, etc than brand names combined.  However I wouldnt trust my life to those, the main thing is to buy what you feel comfortable with from BOTH a cost and a trust standpoint. 

 

 

AR not much different than pistols, there are quality differences, most cases you do get what you pay for.

[TMF]

All bolts will fail eventually. I'd be tempted to chalk those two failures up to you guy's firing schedules....also depending on your choice of uppers. And a weapon kabooming is an ammo issue almost all of the time (unless you're getting bullet set back from a dicked up chamber).

Yeah, bolt breakage is really normal when you get into shooting it that much. The point I was making was that no brand is immune to failure. It happens regardless of what you buy. There is anecdotal evidence for failures with everything manufactured, from rifles to HVAC units. Only is it a problem when it's systemic.

[TMF]

More people have met their maker from Rossi's, Charters, HiPoints, etc than brand names combined. However I wouldnt trust my life to those, the main thing is to buy what you feel comfortable with from BOTH a cost and a trust standpoint.


AR not much different than pistols, there are quality differences, most cases you do get what you pay for.

Well apparently HiPoint pistols are as reliable and accurate as any. I mean, they look like an unholy abomination, but that is just my snobbery talking. I have some expensive pistols and rifles, and I realize that they can be matched in performance by firearms that are a fraction of their cost... they just won't look as good doing it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I doubt there's enough difference between most AR's, by brand, that most buyers would be able to notice. Wyndham

Weaponry are the previous owners of the Bushmaster label, and make perfectly acceptable AR's at good price points,

compared to Colt. They all will eventually fail. They are, after all, machines with moving parts. Look at several, buy with

price in mind and move up the ladder, later, if you wish. They're like Glocks: they work, and are easy to maintain.

[gregintenn]

I'm quite pleased with my Bushmaster. My father has a Colt, and is pleased with it. Were it available at the time I bought mine, I would have preferred a Smith and Wesson M&P Sport. For the money, I think they are hard to beat.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And, to the OP. Horses die daily around here. I've killed a few, myself.

[trevorst]

Well apparently HiPoint pistols are as reliable and accurate as any. I mean, they look like an unholy abomination, but that is just my snobbery talking. I have some expensive pistols and rifles, and I realize that they can be matched in performance by firearms that are a fraction of their cost... they just won't look as good doing it.

Naaa I work in a level 1 trauma center and over the years I personally have talked with patients that would have been dead had a hipoint not misfired. Only other gun I have heard that from is Jennings.... Read what you want on the Internet, have yet to hear someone in my ER say "whew glad that glock/sig/colt misfired/jammed". That's not snobbery, that's using the very small sample I have seen and deduced there most likely not as reliable as my Glock (which happens to be ugly as mud also). Not a lot of police departments using hipoints, I am sure they would love the 4:1+ cost ratio they would save.

You shouldnt clearance shop for a child car safety seat or a motorcycle helmet also, probably some great deals to be had but when it's your life or your loved ones; should price be the driving factor? You should probably buy the best you can reasonably afford without getting into financial difficulty.


Sorry this thread has steered off direction.

[SmokyBaer]

...........Sorry this thread has steered off direction.

 

I believe you guys have been spot to what the OP has asked.  "Which brand is better for his purpose?" 

[TMF]

Naaa I work in a level 1 trauma center and over the years I personally have talked with patients that would have been dead had a hipoint not misfired. Only other gun I have heard that from is Jennings.... Read what you want on the Internet, have yet to hear someone in my ER say "whew glad that glock/sig/colt misfired/jammed". That's not snobbery, that's using the very small sample I have seen and deduced there most likely not as reliable as my Glock (which happens to be ugly as mud also). Not a lot of police departments using hipoints, I am sure they would love the 4:1+ cost ratio they would save.

You shouldnt clearance shop for a child car safety seat or a motorcycle helmet also, probably some great deals to be had but when it's your life or your loved ones; should price be the driving factor? You should probably buy the best you can reasonably afford without getting into financial difficulty.


Sorry this thread has steered off direction.

 

Perhaps that's true.  I don't know, I've never owned one.  I've just seen all the accounts of HiPoint owners who claim their pistols perform flawlessly.

 

I don't believe the reason HiPoints are not the chosen pistol by police departments has anything to do with reliability.  Even if HiPoints were the most reliable pistol in the world you wouldn't see departments with them.  Not because they're ugly, but because there are simply much better pistols out there in terms of sights, ergonomics, comfort and so on.  There are plenty of reliable pistols out there that you won't see PDs with, ever.

Edited October 5, 2013 by TMF

[CQB Elite]

I believe you guys have been spot to what the OP has asked.  "Which brand is better for his purpose?"

I think we'd all agree that brand is no where as important as choosing a weapon that one is comfortable with and then training, training, and training......

[whitewolf001]

I like Hi-Points for when I'm down at the lake. They hold the boat real steady like, just gotta make sure the cord is strong enough.