Did God Stop A Gun Massacre?

[gun sane]

A punk walks in to a McDonalds and asks for a cup of water. But then he whips out a pistol and pulls the trigger several times at customers and employees. No bangs. He walks outside and successfully fires a few rounds into the air and at a passing car. Back inside, the gun fails to fire again. His mother tells cops later that she was praying for him. You decide.

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/26/prayer-credited-for-preventing-mass-shooting-after-would-be-robbers-gun-behaved-in-very-mysterious-ways-at-mcdonalds/

[Steelharp]

I've already decided.

 

Yes.

[jcluff]

Could have been God. Could have been Jimenez.


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[Steelharp]

Could have been God. Could have been Jimenez.


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"My name... Jose Jimenez."  :rofl:

[daddyo]

A guy goes into a Mickey D's with a gun, starts pointing it at people, it won't fire, so he goes outside to fire shots in the air, then he comes back inside and those people are still in there??

 

:screwy:

[musicman]

The sad part is that no one there was armed and willing to neutralize the threat. His mother's prayers were doubly effective.

[Sam1]

Was probably just Remington ammo, sounds legit.

[Jonnin]

A punk walks in to a McDonalds and asks for a cup of water. But then he whips out a pistol and pulls the trigger several times at customers and employees. No bangs. He walks outside and successfully fires a few rounds into the air and at a passing car. Back inside, the gun fails to fire again. His mother tells cops later that she was praying for him. You decide.

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/26/prayer-credited-for-preventing-mass-shooting-after-would-be-robbers-gun-behaved-in-very-mysterious-ways-at-mcdonalds/

 

Well, this goes deep and is of course unanswerable.   The implication here is that the almighty can stop a violent act with divine intervention.  I agree with this.  However, if HE can do that, the other implication is that HE routinely ALLOWS violence to happen,  yes even in the cases where the victims surely prayed.  Which begs the questions of 'why stop it this time and allow it that time' and those questions will make anyone pull their hair out.   The occasional miracle at random is almost worse than none at all when trying to *think* about the subject.  Its why faith is so important ...  with faith, you can gloss over the lack of a pattern, the tough questions, etc.  Without faith, it is just random noise that may or may not even involve HIM.   So, like any question on religion (and a fair number for "science") it boils down to faith in the end.

[Peace]

A guy goes into a Mickey D's with a gun, starts pointing it at people, it won't fire, so he goes outside to fire shots in the air, then he comes back inside and those people are still in there??

 

:screwy:

Aaaaaaaha ha ha haaa!   maybe it was Colorado... medicate, munchies,... "dude,... that guy with the gun totally needs some of your medicine, bra. - oh look, he's coming back, ya wanna ask him?"  ... that is one looooong OODA loop.

 

Heck of an interesting story.  Good addition, Jonnin.  

 

     I'm sure there is a breadth of faithers and non-faithers on here, and I'm quite sure my shut mouth on the subject is a benefit to all.   :)  I hope you all stay safe - no matter the cause.  

[bersaguy]

I don't have to question why GOD does what he does. He has his reasons and that is good enough for me. My thought on this is  that no one in the McDonalds name in the book of life was due to be called up yesterday and so no one was killed. I am a firm believer in the fact that until God calls your number your not going to die that day...........jmho

[gun sane]

There are only two spiritual positions in the Bible:  You either belong to God or you belong to the devil,  just as you are either alive or you are dead.  Where you spend eternity is based upon that relationship at the time of your death.  There is no neutral ground.  God offers grace to everyone to come to Him through the covenant He made with mankind by His Son, Jesus Christ.  You may take it or leave it, but keep in mind that this is the only choice one has.  You belong to the devil by default and your only option is the one which God offers. 

 

Keep in mind that God by definition is sovereign.  He does as He pleases and decides what will happen and when.  We can wonder why God does things or even accuse Him for the things he allows, but he is not looking for our counsel, unless of course we are members of His family and He hears our prayer requests.  He is under no obligation to to bless those outside of His covenant relationship, just as anyone would not be responsible to look out for anyone outside of his family.  But because "God is love," as it says in the Bible, He extends mercy and grace to draw people into relationship with Him, by far the most rewarding association you will ever have or experience.

 

I'm betting that God has given this perp another opportunity to wise up.  I hope for his sake he takes it.

[RobertNashville]

Unless or until someone can demonstrate (and duplicate) a mechanical/scientific explanation for this (or prove that the entire thing is a hoax which seems unlikely given where the details are coming from); the most logical explanation for this event is that something supernatural happened (since the normal/natural thing would have been that the gun would fire inside just as well as it did outside).

Whether you believe the root cause of the supernatural event is "God" or something else each person has to decide for him/herself...personally, I lean toward God's involvement.

[chances R]

Well in this case God let a stupid person handle a gun.  Too bad he didn't look down the barrel to see what was wrong with it......

[jcluff]

Unless or until someone can demonstrate (and duplicate) a mechanical/scientific explanation for this (or prove that the entire thing is a hoax which seems unlikely given where the details are coming from); the most logical explanation for this event is that something supernatural happened (since the normal/natural thing would have been that the gun would fire inside just as well as it did outside).
Whether you believe the root cause of the supernatural event is "God" or something else each person has to decide for him/herself...personally, I lean toward God's involvement.

The reason I stated what I did earlier is because, at the range, I saw a guy with a Jimenez 9mm have repeated failures to fire and then a few successes. Looking at a round or two, he was suffering from light strikes.

A DAO pistol with this problem would explain what was experienced in the article. A poor quality pistol, with light enough strikes to cause some rounds not to fire with the first or second pull of the trigger.


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[jcluff]

Well, to be fair, he was suffering a lot of problems, light strikes was just one of them. Failure to feed, failure to extract, etc...


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[JWC]

The sad part is that no one there was armed and willing to neutralize the threat. His mother's prayers were doubly effective.

I mean seriously why didn't fry guy explode his melon with a mop handle after the ftf? Or send him to the burn center by dousing him with that hot damn coffee? Or anything? Maybe even lock the door after he went outside?

[Howler]

I want to know who the maker of the gun was. Soooo I don't buy one.

[Guest TankerHC]

Well, this goes deep and is of course unanswerable.   The implication here is that the almighty can stop a violent act with divine intervention.  I agree with this.  However, if HE can do that, the other implication is that HE routinely ALLOWS violence to happen,  yes even in the cases where the victims surely prayed.  Which begs the questions of 'why stop it this time and allow it that time' and those questions will make anyone pull their hair out.   The occasional miracle at random is almost worse than none at all when trying to *think* about the subject.  Its why faith is so important ...  with faith, you can gloss over the lack of a pattern, the tough questions, etc.  Without faith, it is just random noise that may or may not even involve HIM.   So, like any question on religion (and a fair number for "science") it boils down to faith in the end.

 

Because for some people its time and others it isnt? And sometimes maybe (Big maybe) if its someones time, everyone else may just be collateral damage. 

Edited September 28, 2013 by TankerHC

[Oh Shoot]

Seem to me if the Big Guy occasionally micro managed like this to save a handful of folks, it would behoove him to do a bit of macro managing now and then to save millions.

 

- OS

[gun sane]

Seem to me if the Big Guy occasionally micro managed like this to save a handful of folks, it would behoove him to do a bit of macro managing now and then to save millions.

 

- OS

 

Oh, but He has!  More like billions, since Calvary.

[vontar]

I have an old RG .22lr, pull the trigger and you have about a 1 in 3 of a misfire.   Pull the hammer back and it fires ever round.

 

Believe in God or not.  Be happy no innocent person was shot.

I choose to believe.

[Garufa]

Seem to me if the Big Guy occasionally micro managed like this to save a handful of folks, it would behoove him to do a bit of macro managing now and then to save millions.

 

- OS

 

Certainly there is reasonable explanation as to why not.

[Oh Shoot]

Oh, but He has!  More like billions, since Calvary.

 

Yep, y'all say it's nice up there, but most fight to the last breath not to go.

 

"Oh Master, make me chaste -- but not yet!"

 

- OS

[Peace]

:popcorn:

[gun sane]

Yep, y'all say it's nice up there, but most fight to the last breath not to go.

 

"Oh Master, make me chaste -- but not yet!"

 

- OS

 

I blame the wife.....if it wasn't for those blasted bran muffins of hers, I might have been there years ago.  :waiting: