Found a gun while digging today

[atlas3025]

You have an M1A SOCOM I'm green with envy of too lol. This would look great in your safe lol.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

 

Lol, I HAD a SOCOM.  It became a SCAR.

 

But who doesn't want to find burried treasure!?  Even if it turns out to be worthless...it doesn't matter, because you would never want to sell it anyway!

[atlas3025]

Any update on this?

[Spots]

Any update on this?

To be honest, no. Between work, working on the farm, helping out with the gunshop, learning to play banjo and watching my wifes cousins kids, since they are to big a druggies to be parents, I just havent had time.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[Guest TankerHC]

Im not worried about it being real. I was pretty excited to find something lol. I think Im gonna send it to tankerhc just to make sure and if its a repop Ill electro off the rust and do a wall hanger job on it like you said.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

 

I just left Gettysburg a few days ago. But I am going to be back up there in 3 weeks. This time wouldnt have worked anyway since there was no one around. The guy I know who does authentications for the NPS was only there in his shop one night. The rest of the three days I stopped in was employees. The Armory may have been open, but not any of the days or afternoons I was there.

 

I can carry it with me when I leave to head back in 3 weeks.

[Guest TankerHC]

Well I had him take a look at the photo's.

 

This I can say, but this is preliminary because unless he has it in his hands I wouldn't expect this person to commit, which is also why I wont say who he is unless someone wants their artifact authenticated, not my place to say. Let him say on paper.

 

I can tell you this.

 

Not fake (cannot say with 100% unless I were to take it to him.

Not a Colt.

Not a Navy

Not an ,51 or .58 or any of the suggestions on here.

Not a .36 or .44

The cylinder did not go with the gun when it was manufactured.

 

If Spot wants to know, Ill tell him and he can say. But everyones guesses were off the mark. Including mine. 

 

If authenticated I can also tell you this. For what its worth, you could buy a new Windham AR. 

[Spots]

My apologies for being so out of the loop. Works been killing me lately. I just sent you a PM tanker

Tapatalk ate my spelling

[173rdABN]

Dudes that's sweet!!!

[NRA]

WELL? is it a genuine?

[hipower]

Great to hear some good news on the find!

 

A very good thing you did, Tanker!

[Guest TankerHC]

Since it is Spots find, I figured I would let him tell you what I passed on to him, but as busy as he is, it might be a while. Guess Ill wait and see what he says, dont want to jump in.

[gregintenn]

Somebody tell me what they think it is already! :wall:

[Guest TankerHC]

Since people are asking, no telling how long Spot will be since he is busy, Ill tell of some of what this person said. I will say they make no definitive statements based on photographs. Especially digital photographs since digital photographs even though they may be high quality provide distortions that would not work in forensics. (Note this isn't me saying this). Although he will say what he thinks based on a photograph, consider nothing definitive and he would not put his signature to document the weapon without having the weapon for several days to conduct testing on it.

 

The frame is real. It is an Model 1841 Pocket Pistol. The manufacturer is either Bacon, Hamilton or it is a Brevet Colt. Brevet Colts are not Colts. The Colt name was licensed to the manufacturer by Colt with Brevet added to show it was not a Colt. Based on what he could see in the photograph, he believes the frame would show to be a Model 1841 Bacon Pocket Pistol, not in .36 Caliber but in .31 Caliber. Either way they can see through the corrosion and tell you who the manufacturer was and again, they believe it is a Bacon.

 

The cylinder is machined, the frame is not. The cylinder never went with the gun. The lanyard loop is not original to the gun. It was made, most likely by some soldier. The style is very common. The troops made these particular lanyard loops so as not to lose the gun while in the saddle. They did not put these lanyard loops on reproductions, it is old, period and hand made.  The spring lever is broken. Another common feature with these relics. These guns had a tendency to end up with broken spring levers. This is an early 1840's model, in those days when the lever spring broke it cost more to get it fixed than the gun was worth. So they removed the cylinder and threw away the rest of the gun. Which is why, the cylinder is wrong for the gun. because it never went with the gun. 

 

A couple of things "gave him pause". But he states emphatically, no statement is definitive until the gun is in his hands and he has it for 3 or 4 days to test it. 

 

For one, if the gun in fact appears to the same as it does in the photo, he would be very surprised to find that the gun and cylinder went into the ground together or came out together. (One or the other). The cylinder never went with the gun. The corrosion is not correct for this relic between the cylinder and the frame. The cylinder has definitely not been in the ground as long as the frame, by years. he can tell you how many years if he has the gun for testing. The cylinder is post 1870. No telling how post 1870 unless he has it in his hands. But if he can look at it, he can probably tell you who manufactured it and when. 

 

Using glass. The serial number is correct for an 1841 Bacon. However, the ridges on the numbers (Appear in the photo) to rise and fall unevenly. This would be an indicator that someone tampered with the serial number. 

 

Both the uneven corrosion and the rise and fall in the serial numbers ridges could both be a result of digital photography. So, again, no definitive statements unless he has the gun in his hands. 

 

They have a policy I have heard over and over. You make no definitive statements without having the relic in your hand, inspected and tested. And if you do not know, do not be embarrassed to say you do not know.  If you do not know, do not take guesses, say "I do not know". But if you do not know, and you work at the Forensic level, you find out. Because that is what you do. 

 

The frame has value. If it turns out to be what they suspect, upwards of 600-900, with the post 1870's cylinder. If the cylinder is a reproduction, the frame still has value. Around 600. And although highly doubtful,  if it is a reproduction it is still worth 50-100 dollars. Because it would be a very early reproduction. 

 

The only way anyone will know for sure, is if I can take the gun to him. Thats Spot's call. Because there COULD be more to this story. Just have to see. 

 

Bottom line, based simply off of a single digital photograph. he said to tell Spot congratulations on a cool find. Real, reproduction, or whatever, collectors think finds like this are pretty cool and a gun does not have to be worth a million dollars to be able to hang it.  He said if you dont want it tested or authenticated, hang it and tell your story, thats what it's all about anyway. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by TankerHC

[tnguy]

You had me at "Bacon"

[Jonnin]

very nice.  Never heard of it, but it sounds neat.  Would not surprise me to hear something like "a spare/damaged cylinder was stuck in there and the gun given to a kid as a toy" -- times were different back then and a busted gun would have made a great free toy for some boy.   Or whatever else, guy could have been trying to fix it and given up when the spring broke. 

 

As for images..

the problem is not digital per-se, its that 99.99 % of modern digital photos are jpeged to death.  Jpeg & wavelets are amazing for what they do, which is take a lot of information and store it in a small amount of space.   But to do this, part of the image is discarded, and damaged, and distorted.   Big space using formats that have all the information are just fine for advanced use, so if you *had* a way to take a pure image and keep it in say targa format or just RAW (RGB array) format, it would be fine (as good or better than a film based method).   That would take a specialty camera, though, and a pretty big memory stick as each image would take 10-20 MB each at a usable resolution.   There are lossless jpg and wavelet formats so you could use something like that as well. 

[Spots]

So I pulled this out of the shoebox it has rested in for the last 11 years today. I put it in a vinegar bath, so I may be destroying a priceless relic, but I wanna know what it is. Once I get the rust off and get it freed up, Ill probably oil, add grips and hang it in my study as a conversation piece. Ill update as we go. 

[mac2h]

thats awesome, where was it before the shoebox?

[Spots]

3 minutes ago, mac2h said:

thats awesome, where was it before the shoebox?

2 feet deep next to an old house. I dug this up 11 years ago instslling a waterline. Lost interest and time after awhile and left it in a box in the top of the closest. My boy found it the other day and i thought it might be a good time to clean it up and see if i can figure out what it is and what its worth once and for all. Might even have something worth a bit of cash to turn into a new .357 or .44 lmao

[BigK]

I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes. I'd consider it a win if I could just get the loading lever to work again and the cylinder to spin.