Found a gun while digging today

[DaveS]

Spot's, most likely it's the real deal. However, I've never seen an 1851 CN with a fluted cylinder. That's interesting.....

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

Spots; are those "nipples" or "firing pins" on the cylinder? Many gun manufactuers converted those cap-n-ball revolvers to fire fixed ammo. Cylinders were fluted to distinguish it from CnB. Nipples were replaced with firing pins. The fluted cylinder is sending me a message that it's a conversion. I could be wrong though.

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

Could it be? May have been lost many many years ago. Being buried two foot is not that unusual for an area that has been plowed or bulldozed.

 

http://www.gunsinternational.com/1851-Navy-3rd-Model-Half-Fluted-Cylinder-Lanyard-Ring.cfm?gun_id=100184874

 

DS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Call me tonight and I will explain how to free it up easily and cheaply.

[BigK]

That is very very cool. Congrats on the find, regardless of whether it's the real deal or not.

[Cherokee Slim]

1853 to 1854 mfg if the numbers are right.  Cool find.

Cherokee Slim

[seez52]

Spots; are those "nipples" or "firing pins" on the cylinder? Many gun manufactuers converted those cap-n-ball revolvers to fire fixed ammo. Cylinders were fluted to distinguish it from CnB. Nipples were replaced with firing pins. The fluted cylinder is sending me a message that it's a conversion. I could be wrong though.

 

DaveS

that fluted cyl. has me buffaloed as well. And the lanyard loop on the frame, that's a little different too.

 

Did you check to see if it is loaded?

[leroy]

that fluted cyl. has me buffaloed as well. And the lanyard loop on the frame, that's a little different too.

 

Did you check to see if it is loaded?

 

Could be a "1861 pocket police cylinder"... It wasn't unusual for these percussion revolvers, especially the "well used" ones to have extra cylinders or orphaned cylinders from another revolver... The lanyard loop is interestin too... It may have been added by an old time gunsmith...They were popular round the ww1 era... 

 

Remember, many of these old percussion revolvers were regularly used up into the 1930's...  They were (...and still are...) accurate, relatively dependable, and deadly in the right hands... 

 

I tend to think that Spots has found a "real, original" navy with a maverick cylinder...

 

The area in which it wuz found (....Oliver Springs area...) was no stranger to strife and trouble from civil war times right up thru the 1930's...Lots of veterans came home to places like Oliver Springs after the civil war; and lots of people were armed because of the old time coal mine labor troubles that followed like at Coal Creek... Most everybody was armed in that vicinity; and they knew how to use those arms if they needed to;.... lots of their sons and daughters them still do today... thankfully...

 

leroy

Edited September 28, 2013 by leroy

[TMF]

This is pretty darn neat.  Especially when you consider the history on how it got there in the first place.  Chances are it's been a long, long time since a person last held it.

[Mike.357]

That is very cool.   It being buried makes me wonder why it was buried.   Guess it just sunk in on its own.

 

I would not do anything to it.  Keep it as is.

[atlas3025]

I am green with envy.

[Dennis1209]

WOW!

 

About the only thing that could beat that is...

 

Digging a six foot deep ditch to bury a water line and find Jimmy Hoffa!

[Guest TankerHC]

Looking at my fake and repro book, the 6 numbers you posted would put it as a Ruger old army reproduction manufactured in 1976. The 6 numbers posted are the last 6 of serial number beginning with 142 or 143 and a dash. Still cool nonetheless. I wouldn't take my word for it however I know someone who could definitely confirm it or not.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

[Erik88]

Something must be in the air. My cousin found a .22 revolver while fishing today at Norris lake. It had obviously washed up on shore and was still in a holster. Rusted but functional.

He said he was going to clean it up and keep it.I told him he needs to call the sheriff first.

[Spots]

Looking at my fake and repro book, the 6 numbers you posted would put it as a Ruger old army reproduction manufactured in 1976. The 6 numbers posted are the last 6 of serial number beginning with 142 or 143 and a dash. Still cool nonetheless. I wouldn't take my word for it however I know someone who could definitely confirm it or not.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

Its not an army pattern which would be an 1858 pattern Remington. Its an 1851 pattern Navy colt

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[Mike.357]

I find it more than coincidental that it was where you chose to dig.

 

If it is a 1800's Colt it is worth in the hundred of dollars at minimum

[Mike.357]

and what is the caliber?  apologies if I missed that somewhere.

[Guest TankerHC]

Yep, just took a quick look at the rusty thumbnail (How it shows up on Tapatalk). Went by Serial Number. Now going back and looking at it, if it is a fake its the best looking one I have seen. I just sold three of the 51's and 58's. 

 

I believe it is real, I also do not believe it is a Colt or Remington. Or a 51, 58, 60, 61 either. The cylinder is wrong, both for the real thing and the reproductions. It looks to me like a real contract gun. And unless thats rust, then the trigger housing tells me that that is a real Confederate Contract Gun. If brass, its definitely not a Remington since brass frame Remingtons never existed during the Civil War. Also, one way to check but not guaranteed, measure the muzzle. If its .44 its a repro, the 51 Navy was only manufactured in .36.

 

Or you could do this. Google US Martial Arms. I met the current head up at the York show about 6 months ago and again at the Worlds Largest Antique Firearms Show outside DC. Frank Mallory wrote the book on Martial Arms, literally. They still have people doing research that can tell you down to the place it was delivered and what unit is was issued to. (if it was). Frank Mallory's books run anywhere from $250-$1000. If I could ever find a digital version I would buy it. 

 

usmartialarmscollector.com

 

My take (Best guess without having my books in front of me). its a Contract gun, post '61, not a Remington or a Colt, and its real. You may have a rarity there. 

 

its worth 5 bucks, if I were to buy it, it would sit on my shelf doing nothing forever, so I'm gonna do you a favor........................

Edited September 29, 2013 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

Just some more thoughts. Griswold and Gunnison made those types of cylinders. 5 or 6 years ago a G&W .36 in piss poor rusty condition was still worth close to 3 grand. Only two problems. If thats brass, Original Griswold 51's were all steel. And they didnt put those type cylinders in their 51's, they duplicated the original. I still say its a real contract gun. 

[Guest TankerHC]

99.999999999999999999999999% sure what it...might be. I knew it wasnt a 62 Police (Or any Police model, just seen a ton of them up in Fairfax at the NRA Museum). How many rounds does the cylinder hold? 5 or 6? The barrel is different from the Navy, the only similarity in the Navy is the frame. The indents (fluted cylinder) are wrong for an original Police. Pietta started manufacturing 62 Police models back in the 70's with the same cylinder, but then the loading lever on this one is wrong for a repro Police. Uberti and has the correct loading lever for a 61, 62 police, but then it also has the correct fluting, which this is not. 

 

Not a Pietta, wrong cylinder for any of their inaccurate repros.

 

Not a Uberti, Uberti's are too accurate. They wouldnt have this cylinder on this gun. 

 

Not any repro I have seen going back to the 70's (looking tonight I mean), I believe its real.

 

I think either an entirely and total fake.

 

Or it is an early model 51 with a much later model replacement police cylinder, and the only fluting of this type Colt made for the 51 was for the Texas Rangers. But the 1860 (4th Model?), had a completely different lever. So 51, later replacement cylinder of complete fake. I believe its real.

[Guest tdoccrossvilletn]

[quote name="TankerHC" post="1040840" timestamp="1380440105"] 99.999999999999999999999999% sure what it...might be. I knew it wasnt a 62 Police (Or any Police model, just seen a ton of them up in Fairfax at the NRA Museum). How many rounds does the cylinder hold? 5 or 6? The barrel is different from the Navy, the only similarity in the Navy is the frame. The indents (fluted cylinder) are wrong for an original Police. Pietta started manufacturing 62 Police models back in the 70's with the same cylinder, but then the loading lever on this one is wrong for a repro Police. Uberti and has the correct loading lever for a 61, 62 police, but then it also has the correct fluting, which this is not. Not a Pietta, wrong cylinder for any of their inaccurate repros. Not a Uberti, Uberti's are too accurate. They wouldnt have this cylinder on this gun. Not any repro I have seen going back to the 70's (looking tonight I mean), I believe its real. I think either an entirely and total fake. Or it is an early model 51 with a much later model replacement police cylinder, and the only fluting of this type Colt made for the 51 was for the Texas Rangers. But the 1860 (4th Model?), had a completely different lever. So 51, later replacement cylinder of complete fake. I believe its real.[/quote] I'm still thinking reproduction. After all your book says the serial number says so. My suggestion would be to contact the curator at some type of history museum. Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy. Edited September 29, 2013 by tdoccrossvilletn

[Dolomite_supafly]

Can you take a picture of the serial number? Style and spacing can go a long way for determining real vs fake.

 

For rust removal do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOx5URgjTiU

My father was given a gun that was in a fire. It subsequently rusted up tight. The cyclinder could not be opened or turned. The hammer would not budge and you could not tell anything about the gun itself other than it was a modern revolver. After about 10 minutes we were able to open the cylinder and it even rotated on the ejector rod. You could even cock the hammer and the cyclinder would lock up. The springs were all shot but the hammer would lock in place until you pulled the trigger. You could even read what model and caliber it was. I will say that the slower you go the better it seemed to work. If you use a welder it will boil while if you use less electricity it will just bubble.

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can use standard mild steel rather than the carbon in the video. I used rebar rods rather than the carbon plates in the video. You must add washing soda. NOT BAKING SODA OR WASHING POWDER. I added a tablespoon per 5 gallon bucket.

[Spots]

Just some more thoughts. Griswold and Gunnison made those types of cylinders. 5 or 6 years ago a G&W .36 in piss poor rusty condition was still worth close to 3 grand. Only two problems. If thats brass, Original Griswold 51's were all steel. And they didnt put those type cylinders in their 51's, they duplicated the original. I still say its a real contract gun.

The back strap wnd trigger guard are brass. Everything else includ8ng the frame is steel.

99.999999999999999999999999% sure what it...might be. I knew it wasnt a 62 Police (Or any Police model, just seen a ton of them up in Fairfax at the NRA Museum). How many rounds does the cylinder hold? 5 or 6? The barrel is different from the Navy, the only similarity in the Navy is the frame. The indents (fluted cylinder) are wrong for an original Police. Pietta started manufacturing 62 Police models back in the 70's with the same cylinder, but then the loading lever on this one is wrong for a repro Police. Uberti and has the correct loading lever for a 61, 62 police, but then it also has the correct fluting, which this is not.

Not a Pietta, wrong cylinder for any of their inaccurate repros.

Not a Uberti, Uberti's are too accurate. They wouldnt have this cylinder on this gun.

Not any repro I have seen going back to the 70's (looking tonight I mean), I believe its real.

I think either an entirely and total fake.

Or it is an early model 51 with a much later model replacement police cylinder, and the only fluting of this type Colt made for the 51 was for the Texas Rangers. But the 1860 (4th Model?), had a completely different lever. So 51, later replacement cylinder of complete fake. I believe its real.

It is a 6 shot, and it has the right barrel for a Navy, its a 7.5" octagonal barrel.

I'm still thinking reproduction. After all your book says the serial number says so. My suggestion would be to contact the curator at some type of history museum. Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

His book says the serial number comes back as a 1976 Ruger Old Army. This isn't an Army pattern gun, not even close.

Can you take a picture of the serial number? Style and spacing can go a long way for determining real vs fake.

For rust removal do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOx5URgjTiU
My father was given a gun that was in a fire. It subsequently rusted up tight. The cyclinder could not be opened or turned. The hammer would not budge and you could not tell anything about the gun itself other than it was a modern revolver. After about 10 minutes we were able to open the cylinder and it even rotated on the ejector rod. You could even cock the hammer and the cyclinder would lock up. The springs were all shot but the hammer would lock in place until you pulled the trigger. You could even read what model and caliber it was. I will say that the slower you go the better it seemed to work. If you use a welder it will boil while if you use less electricity it will just bubble.

I will give that a shot after I find someone who knows more about them than me to look at it. If it does turn out to be some off the wall contract model I don't wanna be the guy whonhates himself for ruining it by cleaning. Here is the serial number



Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[Fourtyfive]

" I like the way you talk " I love the country in that man's voice in the video......

Edited September 30, 2013 by Threeeighty