Commercial reloader?

[Guest shifty_85]

i have made friends with a few Commercial reloaders here in MI and was wondering if there were any near the knoxville area. or if there would be an interest in commercially sold reloaded ammo at a decent price!

 

Thanks all i look foward to moving to TN and the shooting community down there!

[Oh Shoot]

i have made friends with a few Commercial reloaders here in MI and was wondering if there were any near the knoxville area. or if there would be an interest in commercially sold reloaded ammo at a decent price!

 

Thanks all i look foward to moving to TN and the shooting community down there!

 

None in all of E TN that I know of. Always a market everywhere for quality ammo at a good price.

 

Fire up a .22LR operation for anywhere near previous prices and I imagine you'd do nothing but constantly expand.

 

- OS

[Guest shifty_85]

unsure how to load .22LR but ill have to take a peek into it.

 

i talked to one of the loaders here who i have known since he started and his sales have gone through the roof he now orders bullets 100,000 at a time and has 4 dillion 1050's with 3-4 people working for him. i mentioned to him about maybe me running a shop in TN under the same name for him he seemed interested in the idea.

 

what all would i need to load ammo for sale in TN? here in MI i think i need an FFL of some sort and insurance for peoples guns blowing up and hurting them. not for the guns them self but for the people.

 

Also here are some of his prices i have payed they went up a few bucks last jan due to components going up. .38spl 25.00 for 100 rounds. for .40 cal 28.00 for 100 rounds. .45acp 34.00 for 100. Depending on prices of components prices may be a few bucks more or less. ive shot over 6,000 of his .45acp through my 1911 with 0 issue's work flawless in 3 gun events and any comp i have ever shot. i remember when he first open it was 13,00 for 50 .45acp but that was before the madness!

 

ill look into laws in TN as well as talk to my loader here and see what we can sort out. you may soon have a new source of cheap reliable plinking rounds :)

[R_Bert]

i have made friends with a few Commercial reloaders here in MI and was wondering if there were any near the knoxville area. or if there would be an interest in commercially sold reloaded ammo at a decent price!

 

Thanks all i look foward to moving to TN and the shooting community down there!

 

 

None in all of E TN that I know of. Always a market everywhere for quality ammo at a good price.

 

Fire up a .22LR operation for anywhere near previous prices and I imagine you'd do nothing but constantly expand.

 

- OS

 

About a year ago, there was an outfit started up on Hiwassee Avenue in Knoxville, East Tennessee Ammunition, LLC, but their website has disappeared. Still a few references on Manta, etc.

[Oh Shoot]

.

 

what all would i need to load ammo for sale in TN? here in MI i think i need an FFL of some sort and insurance for peoples guns blowing up and hurting them. not for the guns them self but for the people

 

Well, you need an FFL to manufacture ammunition for resale at every location in every state. That's why it's call a Federal Firearms License.

 

Other than that, dunno. TN probably not any different that other states, dunno if there's a specialty license needed, or just general biz license. Might be some special safety requirements, and likely some level of liability insurance (but i don't know that for a fact).

 

Look in tn.gov under the business section for contact info for questions.

 

- OS

Edited September 26, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Jonnin]

I looked into it enough to see what is needed to sell a few boxes at say  show, but its not possible to "go small".  

you need, at the least (from memory, so bear with me)

 

-FFL

- a non-residential building for production (inspection needed)

- storage that complies with some rules for the explosives and possibly lead/environmental issues.

- some sort of proof of acceptance for liability ( I forget exactly what all).

 

I think there were some other minor hoops to jump thru as well but being unable to make it in the home killed it for me. 

 

 

Yes, I will buy it if the price is reasonable vs factory vs making my own.  I have bought a variety of this type of ammo from localish shops at shows, but lately there seems to be a lot less of it or they want factory prices for reloads.   Or, to put it in real terms... say a box of 380 is $18 factory,  $6 to make myself with lead projectiles,  I am not going to pay $12+++ per box of someone else's reloads (double my cost).  I would pay say 8 as a nod to pulling the handle for me -- labor costs, as it were, and generous since I have to assume someone selling it has a high speed press.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Jonnin

[tnguy]

They had reloaded stuff at the gun shop here in Cool Springs but the prices were not competitive with factory ammo (may have been set when there was no factory available but there was plenty on the shelves). When I opened the box to take a look, the casings were obviously from different sources (some brass, some silver colored) so I passed. If you're going to do it, it's probably worth doing a little sorting as you go.

[Guest shifty_85]

ok i have his price's 240 for 1,000 9mm 115 grain .24 cents per rd. 340 for 1,000 .45 230 grain .34 cents per rd.

 

how does that stack up with the factory pricing? 

 

TNguy the brass you saw was brass and nickle my guy does the same thing most of the time the nickle ones are from personal defense hollow points the case's are normally stronger.

 

he gets case's from anywhere he can and has a few contracts with range's. i would like to get involved with a range or rangers/ police departments.

 

Thanks for all the info looks like ill be looking for a little building as well.

[musicman]

Where did you learn about a nickle case being stronger than brass? Generally accepted wisdom is that nickle plated brass is more brittle, and more prone to splitting. What it IS is cooler looking so people will gladly pay over $1/round for the stuff. Nearly all of my case splits in 40, 38, and 357 are from nickle plated brass.

Do you have links to any info backing that idea? I'm interested to learn, as I have though the reverse for over a decade. Thanks!

[Guest shifty_85]

Where did you learn about a nickle case being stronger than brass? Generally accepted wisdom is that nickle plated brass is more brittle, and more prone to splitting. What it IS is cooler looking so people will gladly pay over $1/round for the stuff. Nearly all of my case splits in 40, 38, and 357 are from nickle plated brass.

Do you have links to any info backing that idea? I'm interested to learn, as I have though the reverse for over a decade. Thanks!

 

oh wow it may have been just my mind saying they are stronger thought i heard something that they were but that you very much for the info! and yes my PDX1's in my .45 are that shiney nickle as well

 

Thanks again for the good info

[Jonnin]

ok i have his price's 240 for 1,000 9mm 115 grain .24 cents per rd. 340 for 1,000 .45 230 grain .34 cents per rd.

 

how does that stack up with the factory pricing? 

 

TNguy the brass you saw was brass and nickle my guy does the same thing most of the time the nickle ones are from personal defense hollow points the case's are normally stronger.

 

he gets case's from anywhere he can and has a few contracts with range's. i would like to get involved with a range or rangers/ police departments.

 

Thanks for all the info looks like ill be looking for a little building as well.

 

9mm @ 24/round is $12 per box.  Slightly lower than the current price of 15 for 50 at the places that are not price gouging (but have very limited supplies).   There is a fresh topic today that someone got 1000 for $227 -- that is cheaper than your friend.

 

45 @ 34/ is $17 per box.  Compare to $20 for the limited supply fairly priced places.

 

my current price (or cost; I do not *sell* it) for 9mm:  $3.2 / box for projectiles, free brass, pennies for powder, and $1.5 for primers, all roughly.  Call it $6 per box to cover taxes and price flux...  granted, those are lead projectiles that are rather cheap, but I *am* cheap so that is what he is up against.  Those are retail prices -- a FFL holder and business *should* be able to buy in volumes that lead to at least *some* savings/discounts.

 

Nickel reloads fine once or twice, then it splits.  There is nothing "wrong" with it except for people who reload.  Reloaders would rather have brass so they can recover it and reuse it.  To shoot it and throw it away, its fine -- a waste of good metal, but that was done when it was made the first time around.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Jonnin

[Guest shifty_85]

9mm @ 24/round is $12 per box.  Slightly lower than the current price of 15 for 50 at the places that are not price gouging (but have very limited supplies).   There is a fresh topic today that someone got 1000 for $227 -- that is cheaper than your friend.

 

45 @ 34/ is $17 per box.  Compare to $20 for the limited supply fairly priced places.

 

my current price (or cost; I do not *sell* it) for 9mm:  $3.2 / box for projectiles, free brass, pennies for powder, and $1.5 for primers, all roughly.  Call it $6 per box to cover taxes and price flux...  granted, those are lead projectiles that are rather cheap, but I *am* cheap so that is what he is up against.  Those are retail prices -- a FFL holder and business *should* be able to buy in volumes that lead to at least *some* savings/discounts.

 

Nickel reloads fine once or twice, then it splits.  There is nothing "wrong" with it except for people who reload.  Reloaders would rather have brass so they can recover it and reuse it.  To shoot it and throw it away, its fine -- a waste of good metal, but that was done when it was made the first time around.

 

yeah i know he is making them alot cheaper than that my price's will be quite a bit better. i dont like to gouge people i like to give a good deal and have alot more product going out than try and gouge for less product.

 

Thanks again for the info

[tnguy]

It wasn't really that it was this or that case that was the issue. It's that generally I want to know I'm running pretty much the same thing trigger pull to trigger pull. At least through the same magazine. A minor thing, perhaps but the upshot was that I bought a different box of ammo so there you go.

 

I believe nickel is magnetic so it should be straightforward to seperate (?)

Edited September 27, 2013 by tnguy

[Guest shifty_85]

It wasn't really that it was this or that case that was the issue. It's that generally I want to know I'm running pretty much the same thing trigger pull to trigger pull. At least through the same magazine. A minor thing, perhaps but the upshot was that I bought a different box of ammo so there you go.

 

I believe nickel is magnetic so it should be straightforward to seperate (?)

 

i dont believe it is my reloader dumps alot of brass on a table and runs a magnet over it and it only grabs the wolf steel cased stuff the nickle stays on there. as for the same round in the same mag the nickle resize's just the same as brass and is loaded to the same overall length same powder same bullet everything is the same just the case is nickle not brass ive shot mix's of .45brass and .45 nickle at 3 guns for 2 years with no issues at all well over 6,000 of his .45ACP have been fired through my 1911 with 0 issues no matter the case nickle or brass goes bang and hits the target when i do my part.

[tnguy]

Nickel should be magnetic so maybe it is an alloy or something? :shrug:

[TNMTBik3r]

It is brass that is nickel plated - maybe something with the plating process or there is not enough nickel to attract to the magnet?

I love the look of nickel cases - have about 1400 40cal and they look sweet loaded up, need to powder coat some bullets and really make these rounds stand out.

[Guest shifty_85]

There is a fellow reloader who has OCD and he gets his brass to a mirror finish no joke i can see my self in his brass. takes him 7 hours to do it but man they look amazing. i throw mine in a tumbler for 45 min to an hour and call it good ha.

[musicman]

I think something important is being out jn your retail reload price calculation: profit for the retailer. Very few remanufacturers have their own store. They have to sell it at a certain cost to a retail establishment, which then needs to add their own margin to it for profitability. (Usually 15-40%) Not to mention shipping costs. That junk is heavy!


Sure, I make 38 spc for $7/50, and new is $20/50 at the store. But with dirstibutors/retailers/shippers in the mix I'm under no pretense that I can get it to a customer at a greatly reduced price. The place I do see some room, however, is in the magnum cartridges like 357 and 44. Factory ammo is near astronomical for those calibers, while the cost to manufacture is only nominally more than 38 spc. The downside is that not nearly as many people go through that type of ammo as fast, so sales quantities would be greatly diminished.

[chances R]

Nickel is used because it is generally regarded as 'slicker' for more positive feeding. It is still a brass case, just nickel plated. It is used quite a bit in some shotshell loads to help protect lead shot and to make it relatively smoother and harder to maintain more consistent and tighter patterns. Also, there is a new ammo maker in East Tennessee. They are supply ammo to Coal Creek Armory routinely.

[Guest shifty_85]

I think something important is being out jn your retail reload price calculation: profit for the retailer. Very few remanufacturers have their own store. They have to sell it at a certain cost to a retail establishment, which then needs to add their own margin to it for profitability. (Usually 15-40%) Not to mention shipping costs. That junk is heavy!


Sure, I make 38 spc for $7/50, and new is $20/50 at the store. But with dirstibutors/retailers/shippers in the mix I'm under no pretense that I can get it to a customer at a greatly reduced price. The place I do see some room, however, is in the magnum cartridges like 357 and 44. Factory ammo is near astronomical for those calibers, while the cost to manufacture is only nominally more than 38 spc. The downside is that not nearly as many people go through that type of ammo as fast, so sales quantities would be greatly diminished.

 

i see your point he has 2-3 ranges that sell his ammo and people eat it up because of how much cheaper it is than factory box's id have to get something like that as a base. i would also prob. load .223 at my cost right now i can load 1,000 55gr .223 for around 170.00 dollars. and turn around and sell it for 250 make a little profit and still have a good price wally world .223 cheapest ive seen is 450ish.

[Jonnin]

Nickel (the element) is magnetic but you can't divide cases with it.  You can easily pull steel cases out with a magnet but I just tested it to confirm: nickel cases do not stick to "the mother of all magnets".  (Its a magnet that I pulled out of an old hard drive, It takes all just about all I can do to pull it off my safe straight up, it can probably hold a 50 pound weight up).  I don't know if its the alloy used to plate the brass (just as some stainless steel is less strongly magnetic than an iron bar) or what, but if that magnet can't stick to it, it cant be done.

 

However its easy to tell apart, being a totally different color.

 

I realize profits are needed to run a business.  I said I would pay around 2 bucks a box over *my* costs (which are using retail not wholesale components) for quality "factory" reloads in understanding of that.  Assuming the pro-reloader is making it faster and for less in materials than I can, that is very reasonable. 

[Guest shifty_85]

 

I realize profits are needed to run a business.  I said I would pay around 2 bucks a box over *my* costs (which are using retail not wholesale components) for quality "factory" reloads in understanding of that.  Assuming the pro-reloader is making it faster and for less in materials than I can, that is very reasonable. 

 

I feel i could do somthing like that. and like you said buying componets at wholesale vs retail will save me a bit as well. As for the loads them self i am still fairly new but learning alot from my reloader and learning alot loading my rounds as well. all of my rounds work great for me and my friends running 3 guns. all go bang and hit the mark with no pressure signs and no blown up guns. i very much do enjoy reloading and i really love helping people out with getting them alot better price vs factory to get them out shooting more!

[Jonnin]

I feel i could do somthing like that. and like you said buying componets at wholesale vs retail will save me a bit as well. As for the loads them self i am still fairly new but learning alot from my reloader and learning alot loading my rounds as well. all of my rounds work great for me and my friends running 3 guns. all go bang and hit the mark with no pressure signs and no blown up guns. i very much do enjoy reloading and i really love helping people out with getting them alot better price vs factory to get them out shooting more!

 

Heh if you loaded ONLY the 3 gun and IDPA most popular calibers (223, 9mm, .40 maybe?, .45 acp maybe) you would have a full time job in some parts of TN if you could get the folks to buy it.  Some people are very wary of the idea, even after you did all the paperwork and jumped all the hoops.  /shrug others wanted to try my loads after watching me shoot them for a few weeks.

 

I don't think lead slug 9mms would sell well.  People are wary of it, esp glock shooters.  IMHO it is perfectly safe if you use common sense, but I still think that would not be "wise" to go there esp starting out.  So don't expect to match what I said my personal costs were, those 90 grain lead slugs are just plain cheap.  (and yes, if it were FMJ I would account for that price difference when deciding to buy some or not, I am not a complete jerk!) 

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jonnin

[Guest shifty_85]

yes i know some people are wary of reloads but once the word spreads that is safe good and clean people flock to it. thats what happend to my reloader person to person gave out his number and price's and just took off.

 

i would load 9mm 115,124,147gr ..40 *dont know grains of .40? might not do it i dont see to many at 3 guns. .45 i could do 185 and 230 grain. .223 would be 55gr FMJ-BT's and if someone needed heavys for a slower twist rate id be willing to do that.

 

all of his are copper jacketed bullets only his .38 .357 .44mags are lead bullets. his rounds look just like factory and function just the same.

 

he did load some lead .45's and was giving them away i got about 60 worked fine in my 1911. not so much in my buddys G21

[musicman]

Why didn't they work in your buddy's glock?