Tipped Min. Wage

[npgunner]

I tip off the PRE-tax total since the waiter did nothing to earn a tip off the tax.

I also tip on the credit card. When you tip on the credit card the restaurant/company keeps track of the tip and reports it to IRS. When you tip cash, it's up to the waiter to report and I don't trust them. All my earned money is reported, I'll make ever effort I can to make sure yours is reported.

[DaveS]

I tip off the PRE-tax total since the waiter did nothing to earn a tip off the tax.

I also tip on the credit card. When you tip on the credit card the restaurant/company keeps track of the tip and reports it to IRS. When you tip cash, it's up to the waiter to report and I don't trust them. All my earned money is reported, I'll make ever effort I can to make sure yours is reported.

I don't believe they should report it. Just my opinion is all.

 

DaveS

[LCPfraTN]

I've never worked as a waiter, but I know a lot of people who have, and my kids have worked as waiter/waitress. At good restaurants, a good server can do very well, but that is not always the case except for the most popular and pricey restaurants. If a waiter/waitress actually had 4 or 5 tables with an average of 4 guests per table with average checks of at least $10 or more per customer that turned over every hour for their entire shift, and they received tips of 10 to 15% from all of those guest, then yes a lot of people would do very well being a waiter. Funny thing is though is that isn't reality and that is why most people don't make a career of being a waiter in the USA if they have a choice. Being a waiter/waitress means your income is based not only on your service, but also on the traffic and meal prices in a restaurant during your shift and your customers generosity or lack thereof. I can definitely tell from the previous posts those that have never worked as a waiter and/or don't have anyone close to them that has had to try and make a living off of tips and a couple of dollars an hour wage.

 

I always tip...even when the service has been bad. Now the tip may only be 10% or so, but I always tip because that server relies on that tip to make a living since they only get a few bucks an hour as a base rate (check out the cartoon link above...very educational for some of you ;) ). Better service gets better tips from me, but I rarely go above 20% unless I really think the server could use the extra help or was really a joy to be around...then I've been known to be very generous. That is part of the bargain when I go to a full service restaurant. Yes, perhaps we are supplementing the pay that the restaurants should be paying when we tip, but the meal costs would be higher if they had to pay full wages and the total cost would be just as high anyway. If you don't think tipping at around 15% at a full service restaurant for average service is fair, then I suggest that you don't eat in full service restaurants...there are plenty of counter service and fast food places you can go to that don't require tipping. :stir:   

    

[Guest Keal G Seo]

I've never worked as a waiter, but I know a lot of people who have, and my kids have worked as waiter/waitress. At good restaurants, a good server can do very well, but that is not always the case except for the most popular and pricey restaurants. If a waiter/waitress actually had 4 or 5 tables with an average of 4 guests per table with average checks of at least $10 or more per customer that turned over every hour for their entire shift, and they received tips of 10 to 15% from all of those guest, then yes a lot of people would do very well being a waiter. Funny thing is though is that isn't reality and that is why most people don't make a career of being a waiter in the USA if they have a choice. Being a waiter/waitress means your income is based not only on your service, but also on the traffic and meal prices in a restaurant during your shift and your customers generosity or lack thereof. I can definitely tell from the previous posts those that have never worked as a waiter and/or don't have anyone close to them that has had to try and make a living off of tips and a couple of dollars an hour wage.

 

I always tip...even when the service has been bad. Now the tip may only be 10% or so, but I always tip because that server relies on that tip to make a living since they only get a few bucks an hour as a base rate (check out the cartoon link above...very educational for some of you ;) ). Better service gets better tips from me, but I rarely go above 20% unless I really think the server could use the extra help or was really a joy to be around...then I've been known to be very generous. That is part of the bargain when I go to a full service restaurant. Yes, perhaps we are supplementing the pay that the restaurants should be paying when we tip, but the meal costs would be higher if they had to pay full wages and the total cost would be just as high anyway. If you don't think tipping at around 15% at a full service restaurant for average service is fair, then I suggest that you don't eat in full service restaurants...there are plenty of counter service and fast food places you can go to that don't require tipping. :stir:   

I assume you meant 100 dollar bills for the table. If you did mean 10 that would only come out to 6-7.50 per hour plus the 2.13...still higher than "expected". But the fact is most major restaurants like Ruby Tuesday's, Outback, Hooters, etc etc average about $40-50 for 2 people (I reference 2 because I don't have family to take out, just dates). On that even with just 5 tables and hour and low tips at 10% that is 12+ an hour plus the 2.13. So almost double what they are "expected" to make.

Oh yeah, tipping bad servers is just reinforcing bad service. If you tip 10% they are just going to think you are cheap. You tip nothing and maybe, just maybe they get that did something wrong. This makes me think I am going to stop tipping 0 for bad service and leaving, instead I will tip 0 for bad service but when they bring the check explain exactly why I am not leaving a tip.
 

 

I don't believe they should report it. Just my opinion is all.

 

DaveS

I don't think they should either. It is a crappy job, just as all customer service jobs are. The fact that they gripe about low tippers is the icing on the cake though.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Keal G Seo

[TMF]

Am I a flaming turd if I get crappy service and don't tip? I don't think anyone here has said they don't tip, though some have expressed a dislike of tipping everyone seems to do it. As we have established most servers make more than minimum wage so if someone chooses not to tip they wont go into the red because of it. While I don't like the way tipping is just expected now a days, I do kind of agree in that the tipping system encourages better service.

Waffle house was the place I was talking about with my worst things done to servers...drunken nights with the whole potential tip thing. As for principals, do you tip 15% no matter what the service was like just because it is the standard? Why not it is the tipping standard? So you do have principals about not paying for service you didn't receive like others here?

I agree that 15% is standard but as of recently, past couple of years, servers seem to think it is up to the customer to get their raises and started complaining about how tiny their tips are.

I have to come back and harp on the not tipping. Say someone IS just being a prick and leaves no tip regardless of service. That meal took maybe an hour. In that time the server is not locked to that one table. Say they serve just 2 other tables, each table leaves a tip of 3 dollars...there is your minimum wage. Sure, the other 2 tables could have left 2 dollars and the non tipper would need to leave 2 also, but how often is someone that does their job as a server only tipped 2-3 dollars? The point here is that they are complaining about nothing. Lets now take a look at average prices of sit down restaurants, lets say 2 people that is going to be 40 bucks minimum. 10% below standard service still puts them at 4 bucks per table. Standard tip puts them at 6 bucks per table. So they serve ONE table an hour with decent 15% deserving service and they have nothing to complain about. But here we go, 10+ tables to a server in a decent restaurant. So they do that to only half of their tables, 5 an hour at 15% of $40 bill and 5 leave 0, and they are making 30+2.13...we all know that half their tables aren't leaving zero tips so why are they complaining about making 30+ an hour? Even at only 10% they would be pushing 20/hour. at 5% they still make 10/hour...all of which put them over minimum. So again: Why o why do they complain about any one person leaving a small or even no tip?

I never said I tip for bad service. 15% is for standard service, that's all. Really good service will yield a larger tip.

And no, I'm not sure what you're basing all your extensive knowledge of the restaurant industry that you keep suggesting servers are demanding higher tips from their customers. I go out to eat all the time. I haven't experienced this tip revolution you're talking about. Just because you may have heard a server or two whine about poor tippers doesn't make you an industry expert. How about you just accept you may not know what you're talking about since you've obviously never worked the job.

And the last thing, why the hell are you so wrapped up in the minimum wage thing? It is not a minimum wage job. If e highest expectation a server had was to clear minimum wage then there wouldn't be decent service, anywhere. It sounds to me like you heard a server complain once and you're basing all your knowledge of the industry on that and you're coming here just to bitch about it instead of listening to people that have actually done this job before. You should have included the disclaimer in your original post: "I'm just here to piss and moan; I'm not interested in actual information from people who know things."

[TMF]

This is America. It's my god-given right to bitch on the internet!

I read one post on another site the other day whining about people ordering waters instead of fountain drinks and hence lower tips. Really? But again, that's another reason why tipping is probably a bad idea, especially as currently implemented. You're paying based on the price of the food, not the service. As The Itis says, what makes a plate of lobster worth a better tip? (I do up my tip if we're doing a cheap meal like just sharing an appetizer or dessert though. Only fair).

Tipping based in the price of food is kind of a guideline, not the absolute rule. The idea is more customers equals larger tab which equals bigger tip. A lot more goes into providing service to a 4 top table versus a 2 top. Customers don't see all the other stuff servers have to do for their tables. It's a lot more than just grabbing a tray of food and running it out.

So for the waters thing, if I use a coupon, order water or a cheapo meal, I'll adjust my tip accordingly so I'm not leaving a small tip simply because my tab was el cheapo. Likewise, when ordering bar drinks I make sure to factor the price of the alcohol in because the server has to tip out the bartender at the end of the night for bar sales at their tables.

[TMF]

I assume you meant 100 dollar bills for the table. If you did mean 10 that would only come out to 6-7.50 per hour plus the 2.13...still higher than "expected". But the fact is most major restaurants like Ruby Tuesday's, Outback, Hooters, etc etc average about $40-50 for 2 people (I reference 2 because I don't have family to take out, just dates). On that even with just 5 tables and hour and low tips at 10% that is 12+ an hour plus the 2.13. So almost double what they are "expected" to make.

"Expected" to make? What server "expects" to only make minimum wage? I can tell you, if the job only made min wage no one would do it. It is extremely stressful, fast paced work. Often times your server is working a 12 hour day, and there is only a few hours a day where they're filling all those tables, so when it isn't a rush or they're doing side work after a shift, they're only making 2.13/hr while they're doing it.

Also, what meals are you having at Ruby Tuesdays or hooters that costs $25 bucks everytime?

[AU_88]

Some of this really amuses me. There is no law against tipping, but you're an absolute flaming turd if you don't. If you don't like the tipping system in the restaurant industry then don't dine out. You're just being a mooch off everyone else's tipping. The thing is, if servers were paid a regular wage and tips weren't expected it would drive out all ambition from the industry and you would end up with the same type of people who work at McDonald's, not to mention the food prices would just absorb the cost. The way the system is set up, it puts you in control of how well your service will be.

Want crapy service, go to Waffle House. Don't walk into a nice joint where some server is working hard and then stiff them with a crap tip out of some BS principle. If you had principles you wouldn't be eating there in the first place. Just sounds like people hiding behind BS principles so that they can be cheap. Chances are if you can't comprehend the restaurant industry tipping standard you never worked in the job.

And I don't know where the 20% rule came into play. I've never heard that. Many servers who make 20% or more is simply because they go the extra mile to give their customers a good experience. 15% is still standard for standard service. 10% for slightly below standard (just running food pretty much) and below that is crap service. If all your server is doing is running out food and drinks then they don't deserve 20%. I eat out all the time, so I know this is generally not the case. Some folks may disagree, but they are doing so because they fundamentally disapprove of the system. Being so disingenuous tells me everything I need to know about that persons position; they can't be convinced otherwise because they know everything there is to know despite never waiting tables in their life.

Obviously you have issues with Waffle House. Care to go into detail? I would like to know if I can help change your opinion on the company I work for.

[TMF]

Obviously you have issues with Waffle House. Care to go into detail? I would like to know if I can help change your opinion on the company I work for.

Not meant t insult you. I've literally had a cockroach go across the table while I was in one. I avoid those places like the plague. This is based on experience, not passing observation. Not many places are open in the middle of the night, so choices are slim. After the cockroach thing I've never gone back to one. The service in them is generally horrid, and this is due (in my opinion) a lack of emphasis on service standards. Nothing wrong with that, but folks (in any restaurant) who don't provide decent service won't get a decent tip. Just so happens I rarely experienced decent service at Waffle House. Usually surely old broads who act like they're mad at me for the fact I chose to eat there. Stereotypes exist for a reason.

[Chucktshoes]

Not meant t insult you. I've literally had a cockroach go across the table while I was in one. I avoid those places like the plague. This is based on experience, not passing observation. Not many places are open in the middle of the night, so choices are slim. After the cockroach thing I've never gone back to one. The service in them is generally horrid, and this is due (in my opinion) a lack of emphasis on service standards. Nothing wrong with that, but folks (in any restaurant) who don't provide decent service won't get a decent tip. Just so happens I rarely experienced decent service at Waffle House. Usually surely old broads who act like they're mad at me for the fact I chose to eat there. Stereotypes exist for a reason.

Waffle House is my go to spot for after drink meals. I wonder if the service levels you have received were centered around a certain area as while I have gotten fair service on the low end, I generally get good to sometimes excellent service here at he locations in Memphis. Day or night.

[TMF]

Waffle House is my go to spot for after drink meals. I wonder if the service levels you have received were centered around a certain area as while I have gotten fair service on the low end, I generally get good to sometimes excellent service here at he locations in Memphis. Day or night.

Many moons ago I worked third shift down there in Zimmerman's home town and the only thing around that was open was Waffle House, so I went to that one a whole lot. The service was unremarkable, which I was okay with; I didn't expect much. But I would never equate it or have the expectation of it being service similar to an actual atmosphere restaurant. Being around the country I've been to Waffle Houses in most states that have them. Same service, nothing remarkable other than the attitude of the waitresses; lacking any personality or hospitality. I've always found them not to be very clean. I generally judge cleanliness on the bathrooms since that's the part that is shown to the customer. If the bathrooms are nasty the rest of the place likely is. Then I had the cockroach experience and was done. The wife was there for that one, so there is no chance of that memory ever going away.

Thing is, the service never rose to what I expected at an actual restaurant. I don't have a problem with that, but I wouldn't tip them e same as I would a server who did a good or great job. Same rule applies at Waffle House or any other restaurant: if you depend on tips you actually have to earn them. They aren't a given.

[tnguy]

When you tip on the credit card the restaurant/company keeps track of the tip and reports it to IRS. When you tip cash, it's up to the waiter to report.

 

I always try to tip cash for that reason. I already do too much unpaid work for the IRS.

Edited September 25, 2013 by tnguy

[Guest sL1k]

Ive tipped more than the cost of my meal at waffle house before (back when my metabolism was strong) its always service based for me. If someone works as hard as I do at my job they get what I make an hour. If im waiting for my ice to melt in order to get more water, then the tip is not going to exceed $2.

[LCPfraTN]

I assume you meant 100 dollar bills for the table. If you did mean 10 that would only come out to 6-7.50 per hour plus the 2.13...still higher than "expected". But the fact is most major restaurants like Ruby Tuesday's, Outback, Hooters, etc etc average about $40-50 for 2 people (I reference 2 because I don't have family to take out, just dates). On that even with just 5 tables and hour and low tips at 10% that is 12+ an hour plus the 2.13. So almost double what they are "expected" to make.
 

 

No, I meant $10+ per guest at the table, which still comes out to your $40-50 per table for 2 people, but that doesn't matter. The point is that in most cases they don't have full tables for their entire shift...only a small portion of their shift. You also need to work on your math skills, but in your eyes that would only have waiters making even more than they are "expected" to make in your example. 

 

I think you need to walk a mile in their shoes because you clearly don't have any idea what the average waiter/waitress makes. Certainly waiters and waitresses can make good money at certain restaurants, but a significant portion of them at most restaurants do well just to exceed the minimum wage by a small percentage and that's with providing good service. I've said all I am going to say on this...you can lead a mule to water, but you can't make one drink.    

[scoutfsu]

Some of you people shouldn't be allowed to eat outside of your homes or fast food.  It is amazing the mental leaps and justifications people make in order not to leave a tip or a miserly tip.

 

You can always recognize someone who has worked in the industry.  They differentiate BS excuses & poor service from legitimate issues or mistakes.  They also tip accordingly. 

 

Everyone thinks they can work in a restaurant.  Until they actually do it and see how stressful it is.  Besides dealing with the people who want a well done steak (but not burnt!), make lemonade out of sugar, water, and lemonade (to avoid paying that $2.50), people eating their entire plate of food except for 1 or 2 bites (and then trying to complain and get their money refunded), etc, etc.  Jesus, the staggering amount of scumbags, thieves, and cheapsters you deal with on an everyday basis is infuriating.  I've seen a woman picking a hair out of her head and putting it in the remains of her food to try and get over.  Yay COGIC :down: , Jesus saves. 

 

If an extra couple dollars, in order to leave a good tip, is going to break your wallet then you shouldn't be eating out.

[npgunner]

I always try to tip cash for that reason. I already do too much unpaid work for the IRS.

I don't understand the few of you that think servers should get a free pass on their taxes.
Every cent of my earned income is reported to the IRS and I believe every cent of a servers earned income (meaning a combination of the hourly wage and tips) should be reported. Otherwise you're subsidizing their income tax free. I figure my tax dollars already subsidize enough for the general population (not just servers) so Ill do my best to make sure other people share the burden.

[Chucktshoes]

I don't understand the few of you that think servers should get a free pass on their taxes.
Every cent of my earned income is reported to the IRS and I believe every cent of a servers earned income (meaning a combination of the hourly wage and tips) should be reported. Otherwise you're subsidizing their income tax free. I figure my tax dollars already subsidize enough for the general population (not just servers) so Ill do my best to make sure other people share the burden.

Just because I'm getting screwed by the IRS doesn't make me bitter about it enough to help them screw somebody else. I wholeheartedly support anyone in their efforts to avoid the legal plunder, the outright theft that is our tax code.

[TMF]

I don't understand the few of you that think servers should get a free pass on their taxes.
Every cent of my earned income is reported to the IRS and I believe every cent of a servers earned income (meaning a combination of the hourly wage and tips) should be reported. Otherwise you're subsidizing their income tax free. I figure my tax dollars already subsidize enough for the general population (not just servers) so Ill do my best to make sure other people share the burden.

Who's advocating that?

When I was a server most of my business was done in cash; around 75%. I think nowadays the majority of transactions are done in credit/debit, just based on my observations while out eating. Not saying it was right, but when I was serving it was standard for folks to only claim 10%ish of their their overall sales for the night. Since there was no way for cash tips to be audited that's how folks did. Now I think that is much harder since people use plastic more than ever due to convenience.

[Jonnin]

I think what they were getting at here was that they are taxed at 7.25 for minimum wage, even though we know they make more than that. But because the business only has to pay them 2.13 the tax eats up a lot of the check. Something they don't account for is most of them don't report actual earnings and get all their tax back in a return at the end of the year.

Example just in case: 40 hours x 7.25 taxed wage = 290 / 30% tax = 89 bucks in tax. The check they actually get is only 2.13 x 40 hours = 85 bucks so their actual check after tax is usually under 10 bucks. Given the tax is probably a bit lower. But all the money they made was cash though and untaxed...or a clerical error when they file anyway.

right --- so the ones who cheat the tips on their taxes are complaining about having a better setup --- less taxes and above min wage earnings ---  they have nothing to complain about!  

 

Min wage is a tough subject.  Without it,  if we assume that everyone who wants a job is willing to work for less, well lets just say that certain types of people who are used to living 30 to an apartment while sharing 1 or 2 cars have an advantage and can afford to work for less than the single mother of 8 living in a high cost of living place like LA or something.   The problem with min wage is the ripple effect when it changes --- everyone at the bottom gets lifted up, prices of everything they touch (fast food, shipping & handling, data entry, and a billion other such jobs) goes up, everyone's cost of living goes up, but the folks that make just over min wage do not get a raise, the folks above them don't get a raise, ... and all the way up the economic food chain, everyone who makes a cent more than min wage is now making effectively less due to the increased costs of everything caused by increased labor costs.   So.... we can't easily eliminate it, and we can't increase it, and we can't leave it where it is forever either.   Long term elimination of it would probably be best, but its a very long term --- in the short term, a great many people would be unable to afford food/clothing/shelter when competing for wages against folks that live in unteneble conditons and agree to work for less.   It also gives rise to the issues we used to have with "factory provided housing/store/etc" which was all but a form of slave labor --- you work for credit in the store and never get ahead, effectively working for goods.   It would also decrease the taxes taken by the feds for the great many low income workers....  making govt more broke.  Its... a complex  problem!

[scoutfsu]

I don't understand the few of you that think servers should get a free pass on their taxes.
Every cent of my earned income is reported to the IRS and I believe every cent of a servers earned income (meaning a combination of the hourly wage and tips) should be reported. Otherwise you're subsidizing their income tax free. I figure my tax dollars already subsidize enough for the general population (not just servers) so Ill do my best to make sure other people share the burden.

 

 

You know they don't get a pass on their taxes right?  Well, probably not because I don't think you've ever worked in a restaurant....

 

The IRS takes an automatic percentage based on sales.  The restaurant also facilitates in this when you cash out at the end of the night.  If you have most of your tips on a CC/Debit card (which is what almost everyone uses nowadays), then that is noted and reported.  If you have high sales but not a lot of CC receipts, they know you got cash.  You have to claim a certain amount of that cash.  If you don't claim the correct amount, it WILL come back and bite you in the ass come tax time.

 

You gotta work really hard to evade taxes...the average server ain't doing that.

[TerryW]

TIPS = To Insure Proper Service

 

I did 8 years hard time in a restaurant. It's hard work and lower pay.. But I am a great tipper to good server.  Just pay attention to me, that's all I ask..I don't need my butt kissed, I should not need to ask everything.  If I have fries, yes I need catchup.  If my water is empty, yes please I need water. 

 

If the adults at a table order more than one "orange drink" you aren't going to get a tip!

 

I'm lucky enough(not really) to go to an area of Ft. Lauderdale regularly that is right near the cruise ships and all the restaurants add 15% to every ticket.  The level of service is horrendous, you can show up to a bar drunk and leave sober because the server knows they are getting 15% regardless.

 

 

Take care of me as a customer and I promise I'll take great care of you..

[Oh Shoot]

....Not saying it was right, but when I was serving it was standard for folks to only claim 10%ish of their their overall sales for the night. Since there was no way for cash tips to be audited that's how folks did. Now I think that is much harder since people use plastic more than ever due to convenience.

 

I don't see how tips that are on a credit card are "reported" to IRS. Only way I can think of would have to be on a 1099 at end of year, but the restaurant is not the payer so not sure they could issue one for it? Not to mention the sheer complexity of keeping up with it all?

 

- OS

Edited September 25, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Lumber_Jack]

I don't see how tips that are on a credit card are "reported" to IRS. Only way I can think of would have to be on a 1099 at end of year, but the restaurant is not the payer so not sure they could issue one for it? Not to mention the sheer complexity of keeping up with it all?

- OS

When I served (8yrs ago) we had to enter the credit card tip amount into the computer system to get paid that tip. The system recorded that and sent you a check. It showed up on your W2 as untaxed wages.

For cash tips you were supposed to input the amount of cash into the computer for the same reason. But as TMF said no one was honest and most people claimed 0 cash tips.

[tnguy]

They are calculated and taken out of your paycheck (where the CC tips are also credited) just like a normal paycheck.

 

Hmm. Lumber_jack says it's a bit different. It's been a long time, I am likely incorrect.

Edited September 25, 2013 by tnguy

[Jonnin]

I don't see how tips that are on a credit card are "reported" to IRS. Only way I can think of would have to be on a 1099 at end of year, but the restaurant is not the payer so not sure they could issue one for it? Not to mention the sheer complexity of keeping up with it all?

 

- OS

 

I they actually ARE the payer.  The business does the actual credit card processing and gets the actual cash from the cardholder.  It then distributes that money to the server.  So as far as the server goes, for getting the money, it comes from their employeer who may, or may not, also report the income but you can rest assured that since the business had the money in hand for a time, that it is tracked in their accounting systems to the penny.  It has to be.