Tipped Min. Wage

[Guest Keal G Seo]

I have a friend on FB that is always complaining about tips, even it is just one person a night. I have no first hand experience in tipped wages because my people skills are...well let's just say they are lacking. Maybe some of you can give some input if you have done this type of work.
My sister does the same type of work but refuses to work anywhere that would even have a chance at bad tips so I never hear complaints from her.

My questions are like this:

If you are working a minimum wage job (tipped), you work 8 hours and only make $40+hourly, that comes out to your salary...is that really something to complain about? I get that minimum wage sucks but that is the pay scale you accepted. Secondly, they say their checks are usually near 0 because the 2.13 an hour is just enough to cover taxes. Well my question would be, do servers really keep track of their weekly/bi-weekly/monthly/yearly tips? I have had friends I know worked a busy shift and came out with 5-600 bucks. I have to imagine that going over what is assumed for taxes is regular since most hardly ever complain about overall tips and usually stick to complaining about one table that left one bad tip.

Side question: What is a normal tip for you on average service on a small party (1-4), 15, 18 or 20%? How about bad or stellar service?

I guess you can figure out I don't feel pity for those making what they were told they would make and that I don't think they keep track of their actual yearly income. Tips for me on average service would be 15, bad can be as low as 0 and stellar I try to judge the persons needs...if they seem to be ok (nice clothes, name brand shoes, jewelry etc) I go 25, more single mom/struggling look I try for 40-50.

Meanest things you have done to servers?

Mine would be a toss up, the drunk classic of plopping down 20 in ones and telling them "This is your potential tip"...which thinking about isn't that mean because they usually get the whole stack. Or getting really bad service my tip will be written on a napkin, something like don't spit into the wind or don't pee on an electric fence etc.

Ok I'll let y'all have some fun with this for while.

[TMF]

Servers who make crappy tips are either working in a low standards restaurant (like Awful Waffle) or they are crappy servers. I was a waiter for a few years. I made awesome money despite the fact I can't stand most people. Bottom line is you're selling a service. If you aren't good at it then you won't get paid for it.

Servers need to expect to do more than just run food and drinks to make their tips. They need to make it a pleasant dining experience by adding to the atmosphere. That doesn't mean you have to be up your table's ass, but you need to make them walk away having had a very pleasant experience. If you don't your tips will reflect.

The industry tends to be dominated by young women, since they are fun to look at, but dudes can clean up too. We just have to work a little harder and pay attention to detail. I made great percentages; usually about 20%. Yeah, there are those people out there that just won't tip well or at all. You tend to get a feel for those people (they're always aholes and they convince themselves the reason they don't tip is principle, yet those principles are strong enough for them to eat at a non-tip min wage establishment) and the service and attention I gave those people reflected their historical tipping amount. The number of people (back then) that didnt tip were so low it didn't matter; wasn't even enough to get worked up over.

I've come across many servers that do nothing but complain about bad tips. These are usually entitled little snots that believe they should get great tips without having to do anything beyond the minimum standard. Those people generally don't last long. If they do, they are the worst servers you'll encounter. They don't get it and they never will. Always the victim, blah blah blah.

I almost always give a server the benefit of the doubt when I get subpar service. They may be weeded because they are picking up slack for more tables or another server. Maybe they're just having a bad day. Very seldom to I give a crappy tip. I can count on one hand the number of times I've given out no tip at all, and they deserved every penny of it.

[Oh Shoot]

I believe the law in TN is something like 1.10/hr for serving positions, but if that and tips don't average out to at least minimum wage, employer has to pay difference.

 

So I believe this sort of works its own way out at least in this state, either they make minimum or more, employer pays the minimum if it's worth it to him, or they get eased on out the door.

 

Someone correct if this isn't accurate.

 

- OS

[Handsome Rob]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tipping_tooting

 

^^^

This.

[TMF]

Mine would be a toss up, the drunk classic of plopping down 20 in ones and telling them "This is your potential tip"...

If someone did that to me I would either get them a different server, allow them the chance to start over or ask them to leave. Being a server doesn't make you a lower order that whores themselves for tips. You don't lose your self respect simply because a person gets to use their discretion on how much they think you earned. This scenario paints a picture of the patron using the money as a way to control the behavior and aspirations of a servant. That shows low character on the part of the person offering. I wouldn't care if the potential tip was $10 or $1,000; my first instinct would be to tell them to get f**ked.

[TrickyNicky]

I'm usually a pretty good tipper. By that I mean 15-20%

I'm not sure when/how it happened that some servers feel 25% should be standard though I've heard that from several. In fact, I was in a resturaunt in Massachusetts last month and they were "kind" enough to total up my bill and give suggested tip amounts printed on the receipt. Their suggested tips started at 20% and went up to I believe 30%
My server got 20% which I think is fair considering I'm probably the easiest patron in a restaurant at any given time. Hope she didn't mind getting a "bottom rung" tip, when you start at my ceiling that's what your in for.

My few rules are to determine the correct tip and then round up to the nearest dollar, when paying with cash I do the same thing plus leave whatever coin I get back in my change as well so actually its mostly over a bit.

I've been in very few situations where I wouldn't tip at all, I think its more to the pint to leave a grossly insulting tip than none at all, like .67 cents on a $20.00 tab. That should tell them something right there.


Another thing I found out through friends "in the industry", if your ever in a <ahem> "gentleman's club" and actually want to have a shot at one of the employees, the WORST thing you can do is be a big tipper, unless your talking 100s of dollars. The best bet is to completely wait for the girl to finish up her set and then when moving on to the next stage to check out another dancer, make eye contact with the girl who's finishing and giver her $2.00 for every song she danced, then walk away. Later in the night when you go outside for some air or a smoke, guess who shows up outside...

[Guest The Itis]

America for the most part has gotten so soft that nobody fears getting fired and even management fears firing.

People used to work to keep their jobs they are thankful to have, now people work and will never make what they think they deserve.

[TN Outlaw]

I am a server at bullfish grill in Pigeon Forge, and i do very well there and make more than most of my friends who have Good salary jobs... my thing is i serve my guest like i would want to be served and it has never let me down, although sometimes you get assholes that can not be pleased no matter what, so i just get them out as fast as possible.

[RED333]

I tip a dollar for every 5 on the bill, or double the tax, ether way it works out.

If I get fair to good service, the above applies, bad service I leave a dollar.

[Guest tdoccrossvilletn]

[quote name="TrickyNicky" post="1037783" timestamp="1379962779"] I'm usually a pretty good tipper. By that I mean 15-20% I'm not sure when/how it happened that some servers feel 25% should be standard though I've heard that from several. In fact, I was in a resturaunt in Massachusetts last month and they were "kind" enough to total up my bill and give suggested tip amounts printed on the receipt. Their suggested tips started at 20% and went up to I believe 30% My server got 20% which I think is fair considering I'm probably the easiest patron in a restaurant at any given time. Hope she didn't mind getting a "bottom rung" tip, when you start at my ceiling that's what your in for. My few rules are to determine the correct tip and then round up to the nearest dollar, when paying with cash I do the same thing plus leave whatever coin I get back in my change as well so actually its mostly over a bit. I've been in very few situations where I wouldn't tip at all, I think its more to the pint to leave a grossly insulting tip than none at all, like .67 cents on a $20.00 tab. That should tell them something right there. Another thing I found out through friends "in the industry", if your ever in a "gentleman's club" and actually want to have a shot at one of the employees, the WORST thing you can do is be a big tipper, unless your talking 100s of dollars. The best bet is to completely wait for the girl to finish up her set and then when moving on to the next stage to check out another dancer, make eye contact with the girl who's finishing and giver her $2.00 for every song she danced, then walk away. Later in the night when you go outside for some air or a smoke, guess who shows up outside...[/quote] Sounds like buying an std. Hell I don't want one for free, let alone having to pay for it. Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy. Edited September 23, 2013 by tdoccrossvilletn

[Guest Keal G Seo]

I believe the law in TN is something like 1.10/hr for serving positions, but if that and tips don't average out to at least minimum wage, employer has to pay difference.

 

So I believe this sort of works its own way out at least in this state, either they make minimum or more, employer pays the minimum if it's worth it to him, or they get eased on out the door.

 

Someone correct if this isn't accurate.

 

- OS

I believe states can impose higher minimum wage but employers must follow the higher standard.

[tnguy]

I'm not a big fan of tipping. I think people should do their job and get paid for it. All it really does is allow the restaurant to advertise lower prices than what the cost really is. It's frequently unfair on the server, it seems to have gone up over the years (It was bad enough going from the 10% standard in England to the 15% here but now it's crept up to 20% somehow) and more and more jobs where service simply doesn't count are putting out their little begging tip-jars.

 

It's not like leaving a really low tip is an option unless service is really so terrible that you need to make a point since you'll just run the risk of your food being contaminated next time in. And it's not like the level of service varies that much anyway. You brought my food to my table without dropping it and dropped off three, not two rounds of drinks? Sure, that's worth a bunch more money.

 

Tips for anything other than exceptional service should be 0 and servers should be making a proper wage.

Edited September 24, 2013 by tnguy

[tnguy]

I believe the law in TN is something like 1.10/hr for serving positions, but if that and tips don't average out to at least minimum wage, employer has to pay difference.

 

So I believe this sort of works its own way out at least in this state, either they make minimum or more, employer pays the minimum if it's worth it to him, or they get eased on out the door.

 

Someone correct if this isn't accurate.

 

- OS

 

 

So basically, if you tip well, you could just be subsidising the poor tippers.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

So basically, if you tip well, you could just be subsidising the poor tippers.

Even if they are only paid 1.10 an hour, thats about a meals time so 6.15 tip covers minimum wage...IF you are the only customer they service the entire hour. So figuring that, a bill of 41 dollars and a standard service tip would cover it. Even a slow night most have 2-3 tables an hour. 2-3 tables at 2 bucks each is minimum wage. Now lets look at an average, lets say a decent family sit down restaurant. They run about 10 tables per server, sometimes more. Now, say they they only tip 1 dollar each...they made more than minimum. But what are the chances of all of them only tipping 1 dollar? Not to mention the people that tip above average for good service.

This hearkens back to my point that some of these people gripe about 1 person not tipping and how it affects them. The job you took is minimum wage but you are probably making 12-15/hour on average nights in a decent restaurant and 30-80/hour on a good night.

I really wish this girl wasn't a family friend or just a closer friend so I could tell her what I think. Thanks for letting me vent here lol. 

[Guest The Itis]

I start a tip at 20% and then dock it for poor service (waters not refilled, waiting too long for check, etc)

 

I've been trying to figure out a guideline on tipper based on number of plates or something. It just strikes me as very odd that a plate with breakfast food on it at Denny's is any less difficult to bring to the table than a plate that has a lobster on it. Go to a nice place and you're paying someone like $10 to bring a plate of food to your table, while the stereotypical struggling single mother of 3 working a diner gets maybe a dollar for the same service. Funny that.

[Jonnin]

NO job pays only enough to cover taxes so that is a lie (however, if they make GOOD in tips, their paycheck may ONLY cover taxes on the TOTAL AMOUNT).  NO one pays a 100% income tax, in other words.  First, its TN, so tax = federal tax.  Second, fed tax increases in % the more you make, and even millionaires only get hit for 80% or so.   Middle class eat it at 30% or so.  Lower income workers can have anything from 0% (yes indeed, even with a job if your total income is less than some amount it is tax free) and up but NEVER 100%.  

 

As stated, you make min wage or more and are taxed on what you make.  If the total is below min they make it up and you get fired after a few weeks of those I would think.

 

Servers are supposed to track tips and pay income tax on em.  IFF the employer does not pay min wage+ directly, the employeer forces the employee to report the tips, therefore the tips are tracked.  If the employeer pays say $10 an hour and you get your tips, they often do not track the tips and often, that money is tax free due to, um, erroroneus reporting of said tips...

 

About 75% of good looking female servers are useless, trying to rely on their boobs to earn a tip when their service is no good.   Then they cry about their low returns.  I tip off the job done -- 10% standard and more if they did a very good job.  I know the going rate changed to 15 or 20% but that is too much IMHO, sorry.  You walked 20 feet 3 times over 1/2 an hour to wait on me and my wife, who are not demanding (order, bring it, refill drink, bring check, that is all we need unless you screw it up).  Typically for that 5-10 min worth of work that you did for me (total) ... 1/4 an hours worth of min wage is a good solid tip for you, so $3 on a $30 meal for 2 people is PLENTY.  If you are working hard and doing it right, you get that 5-10 times in an hour across all the tables.  That is more than I make doing a serious job... its PLENTY.   Seriously do the math ---  $3 buck over 5 tables is $15, then another buck or 2 for their wages -- and that is a very reasonble wage for this type of job in a place like TN where cost of living is exceptionally low.

 

One of the worst things I do to my waiter is I will happily walk into the kitchen to locate whatever I need that was not provided after a reasonable delay (refill drink, missing food, silverware, whatever).  Immediately upon entering their domain, they want to know what you want --- tell them, be nice, and you will get what you need and your waiter will probably be lectured about it.  And you get your item without any more aggravation.

 

There are 2 things that cause me to not tip usually.  One is no refill on the drink.  The second is screwing something up and not refusing to fix the problem.  Even the most 1/2 assed will get the 10% from me otherwise.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Jonnin

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I tip purely based on the service the waiter performed, having nothing to do with what the kitchen made him or her

bring out to me. If it's good service, and the waiter is polite and courteous, they get a great tip from me. If is one of

those who think they are entitled to something, they get a minimum tip, usually 10-15%.

 

The only thing I expect from a waiter is what I imagine someone would expect from me. Olive Garden, years ago, put

a mandatory minimum tip on their checks with a certain party in the number. I never went back, and I love italian food.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

NO job pays only enough to cover taxes so that is a lie (however, if they make GOOD in tips, their paycheck may ONLY cover taxes on the TOTAL AMOUNT).  NO one pays a 100% income tax, in other words.  First, its TN, so tax = federal tax.  Second, fed tax increases in % the more you make, and even millionaires only get hit for 80% or so.   Middle class eat it at 30% or so.  Lower income workers can have anything from 0% (yes indeed, even with a job if your total income is less than some amount it is tax free) and up but NEVER 100%.  

I think what they were getting at here was that they are taxed at 7.25 for minimum wage, even though we know they make more than that. But because the business only has to pay them 2.13 the tax eats up a lot of the check. Something they don't account for is most of them don't report actual earnings and get all their tax back in a return at the end of the year.

Example just in case: 40 hours x 7.25 taxed wage = 290 / 30% tax = 89 bucks in tax. The check they actually get is only 2.13 x 40 hours = 85 bucks so their actual check after tax is usually under 10 bucks. Given the tax is probably a bit lower. But all the money they made was cash though and untaxed...or a clerical error when they file anyway.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Keal G Seo

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Whatever that law is, I wish they wouldn't have the so-called safety net. It would weed out those who shouldn't be in the service

business, and the good ones would be better compensated. But I don't care for anything like minimum wage, otherwise known

as government mandated welfare. Give people crutches and they lean harder.

[TMF]

Some of this really amuses me. There is no law against tipping, but you're an absolute flaming turd if you don't. If you don't like the tipping system in the restaurant industry then don't dine out. You're just being a mooch off everyone else's tipping. The thing is, if servers were paid a regular wage and tips weren't expected it would drive out all ambition from the industry and you would end up with the same type of people who work at McDonald's, not to mention the food prices would just absorb the cost. The way the system is set up, it puts you in control of how well your service will be.

Want crapy service, go to Waffle House. Don't walk into a nice joint where some server is working hard and then stiff them with a crap tip out of some BS principle. If you had principles you wouldn't be eating there in the first place. Just sounds like people hiding behind BS principles so that they can be cheap. Chances are if you can't comprehend the restaurant industry tipping standard you never worked in the job.

And I don't know where the 20% rule came into play. I've never heard that. Many servers who make 20% or more is simply because they go the extra mile to give their customers a good experience. 15% is still standard for standard service. 10% for slightly below standard (just running food pretty much) and below that is crap service. If all your server is doing is running out food and drinks then they don't deserve 20%. I eat out all the time, so I know this is generally not the case. Some folks may disagree, but they are doing so because they fundamentally disapprove of the system. Being so disingenuous tells me everything I need to know about that persons position; they can't be convinced otherwise because they know everything there is to know despite never waiting tables in their life.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm not a big fan of tipping. I think people should do their job and get paid for it. All it really does is allow the restaurant to advertise lower prices than what the cost really is. It's frequently unfair on the server, it seems to have gone up over the years (It was bad enough going from the 10% standard in England to the 15% here but now it's crept up to 20% somehow) and more and more jobs where service simply doesn't count are putting out their little begging tip-jars.

 

It's not like leaving a really low tip is an option unless service is really so terrible that you need to make a point since you'll just run the risk of your food being contaminated next time in. And it's not like the level of service varies that much anyway. You brought my food to my table without dropping it and dropped off three, not two rounds of drinks? Sure, that's worth a bunch more money.

 

Tips for anything other than exceptional service should be 0 and servers should be making a proper wage.

I'd much rather tip them. It, at the least, tells them how well or poor they are doing. Minimum wage doesn't show you anything

except that the government said you had to get that amount of money as a minimum. Anything else minimum wage does is

only an addition to the cost of the service. In a service business, like a restaurant, tipping is and has been customary for

longer than anyone around here has been alive. I even tip at the chinese buffet. Their servers are good.

 

A good server, or waiter, is worth a lot more than minimum wage. It encourages good behavior, also. Makes people real

capitalists instead of keeping them down, which is exactly what minimum wage does for many.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Some of this really amuses me. There is no law against tipping, but you're an absolute flaming turd if you don't. If you don't like the tipping system in the restaurant industry then don't dine out. You're just being a mooch off everyone else's tipping. The thing is, if servers were paid a regular wage and tips weren't expected it would drive out all ambition from the industry and you would end up with the same type of people who work at McDonald's, not to mention the food prices would just absorb the cost. The way the system is set up, it puts you in control of how well your service will be.

Want crapy service, go to Waffle House. Don't walk into a nice joint where some server is working hard and then stiff them with a crap tip out of some BS principle. If you had principles you wouldn't be eating there in the first place. Just sounds like people hiding behind BS principles so that they can be cheap. Chances are if you can't comprehend the restaurant industry tipping standard you never worked in the job.

And I don't know where the 20% rule came into play. I've never heard that. Many servers who make 20% or more is simply because they go the extra mile to give their customers a good experience. 15% is still standard for standard service. 10% for slightly below standard (just running food pretty much) and below that is crap service. If all your server is doing is running out food and drinks then they don't deserve 20%. I eat out all the time, so I know this is generally not the case. Some folks may disagree, but they are doing so because they fundamentally disapprove of the system. Being so disingenuous tells me everything I need to know about that persons position; they can't be convinced otherwise because they know everything there is to know despite never waiting tables in their life.

Am I a flaming turd if I get crappy service and don't tip? I don't think anyone here has said they don't tip, though some have expressed a dislike of tipping everyone seems to do it. As we have established most servers make more than minimum wage so if someone chooses not to tip they wont go into the red because of it. While I don't like the way tipping is just expected now a days, I do kind of agree in that the tipping system encourages better service.

Waffle house was the place I was talking about with my worst things done to servers...drunken nights with the whole potential tip thing. As for principals, do you tip 15% no matter what the service was like just because it is the standard? Why not it is the tipping standard? So you do have principals about not paying for service you didn't receive like others here?

I agree that 15% is standard but as of recently, past couple of years, servers seem to think it is up to the customer to get their raises and started complaining about how tiny their tips are.

I have to come back and harp on the not tipping. Say someone IS just being a prick and leaves no tip regardless of service. That meal took maybe an hour. In that time the server is not locked to that one table. Say they serve just 2 other tables, each table leaves a tip of 3 dollars...there is your minimum wage. Sure, the other 2 tables could have left 2 dollars and the non tipper would need to leave 2 also, but how often is someone that does their job as a server only tipped 2-3 dollars? The point here is that they are complaining about nothing. Lets now take a look at average prices of sit down restaurants, lets say 2 people that is going to be 40 bucks minimum. 10% below standard service still puts them at 4 bucks per table. Standard tip puts them at 6 bucks per table. So they serve ONE table an hour with decent 15% deserving service and they have nothing to complain about. But here we go, 10+ tables to a server in a decent restaurant. So they do that to only half of their tables, 5 an hour at 15% of $40 bill and 5 leave 0, and they are making 30+2.13...we all know that half their tables aren't leaving zero tips so why are they complaining about making 30+ an hour? Even at only 10% they would be pushing 20/hour. at 5% they still make 10/hour...all of which put them over minimum. So again: Why o why do they complain about any one person leaving a small or even no tip?

Edited September 24, 2013 by Keal G Seo

[tnguy]

Some of this really amuses me. There is no law against tipping, but you're an absolute flaming turd if you don't. If you don't like the tipping system in the restaurant industry then don't dine out.

 

This is America. It's my god-given right to bitch on the internet!

 

I read one post on another site the other day whining about people ordering waters instead of fountain drinks and hence lower tips. Really? But again, that's another reason why tipping is probably a bad idea, especially as currently implemented. You're paying based on the price of the food, not the service. As The Itis says, what makes a plate of lobster worth a better tip? (I do up my tip if we're doing a cheap meal like just sharing an appetizer or dessert though. Only fair).

Edited September 24, 2013 by tnguy

[DaveS]

I don't care one bit for "mandatory tipping", nor do I dine at those places that require it. I went into one resturaunt in Clarksville not long ago and the menu said 15% tip added to bill. I walked out. If you want a tip from me, you'd better earn it! They make at least $7.50 an hour to provide a service for their employer. Most places like that pool all the tips and divy them out equally. Not fair to the ones that bust their arse! If they don't earn it, they won't get it from me!

 

Most of y'all won't dine in a place with a "gunbuster" on the door. That don't bother me. However, I don't dine in places that require mandatory tipping!

 

DaveS

Edited September 24, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

This is America. It's my god-given right to bitch on the internet!

 

I read one post on another site the other day whining about people ordering waters instead of fountain drinks and hence lower tips. Really? But again, that's another reason why tipping is probably a bad idea, especially as currently implemented. You're paying based on the price of the food, not the service. As The Itis says, what makes a plate of lobster worth a better tip? (I do up my tip if we're doing a cheap meal like just sharing an appetizer or dessert though. Only fair).

Any tips I leave is based on service received, and not on what I bought. Just how it is!

 

DaveS