Question for you AK folks

[superduty]

I'm trying to educate myself on the AK platform, and have a question regarding the new AK's that are being sold these days. Whether the maker is Arsenal/Saiga/WASR/Zasava, or any of the others, do these rifles get imported from the manufacturer as a complete rifle, and then either sold outright or modified for domestic sale by the importer (Arsenal, Century, or whoever), or, are these rifles imported as parts from whatever manufacturer, and then assembled by the importer in question? Or maybe neither of the above? Thanks!

[~48_South~]

I know the Arsenals are simply imported Saiga's that are then converted from the sporting configuration back to their original AK glory with all new parts(US Made). Then the WASR's are typically built from imported parts kits. The Saiga itself is allowed to be imported as a whole rifle due to the way its sporting configuration from the factory in Russia (no pistol grip,no muzzle brake/flash hider,dont think it can accept regular AK mags from the factory but dont hold me to that basically no "EVIL" features). When you start tinkering with imported sporting rifles you need to be aware of 922r to avoid any legal issues down the road.

[whitewolf001]

Pistols don't have to be imported as a kit, thus even a Century imported pistol such as a Draco isn't garbage! Arsenal doesn't do just Saigas, they do all kinds, mostly Bulgarian kit guns done RIGHT, unlike their Century counterparts. Also WASR isn't a brand, it's a variant from Romania.

[Sidewinder]

They're all good. How do I know? Because the politicians hate them all... and, anything that the politicians hate, has to be good. Any opinions on the Romy "G" parts kits on here...from actual experience?

[broylz]

not all Arsenals are Saiga conversions, just their cheaper options. they also have Bulgarian models. Arsenal is one of the top makers.

 

the SGL series of saiga conversions are sometimes seen as the Colt 6920 equivalent in the AK/AR comparison. I would place the SLR Bulgarian models up in the Daniel Defense realm with some Milled models being in the Noveske realm.

[austin7.62]

You're best bet right now is a Zastava O-PAP M70. It's a factory built gun in Serbia by Zastava. It's imported into the country with a single stack magazine and no bayonet lug. The magwell is widened out by Century to accept hi-cap mags. It runs about $550-$600. It follows the Yugo M70AB1 pattern. The best part about the rifle is that it has a foreign receiver with an authentic bulged trunnion and hammer forged barrel!

 

The stamped receiver Arsenals are usually Saigas from Russia, and the milled rifles like the SAM7-R or SLR-101s are Bulgarian. Both feature hammer forged, chrome-lined barrels which are made to last forever. I have a few Arsenals, and they are nice, but too many people drink the Arsenal Koolaid.

 

The WASR is just a rifle that is brought in as a single stack rifle like the O-PAP, and the magwell is hogged out. People bitch about the WASR series of rifles, but they are good rifles. My favorite AK is my WASR.

 

The things you want to look for are:

straight sights, gas block, tight magwell, no deformed rivets (stamped only), and I prefer foreign made barrels. They are made to last.

 

O-PAP: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-CARI2090-N?utm_source=Slickguns&utm_medium=organic

WASR: http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN02.aspx

SAM7R: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/arsenal-sam7r-milled-7-62x39mm-rifl-detail.html?Itemid=0

 

Also, the CAI Yugo M70AB2 underfolders are solid. I have one of those too. Good luck!

[superduty]

Yep, I've been looking at the PAPs a bit lately-  the Zastava name seems to carry some respect (in terms of build quality), especially if a guy isn't going to put down $1000+ on a rifle.

 

In doing a bit of research on these, I've found a lot of horror stories about how the importers hack up magwells, etc, and I guess thats what my question was originally about.

 

 

Thanks guys!

[broylz]

best bet for anything century built is to see it in person. hacked up magwells and canted front sights are among several hit or miss problems.

[KKing]

Good thread and great info, I'm glad you started it. I too have been trying to educate myself on the AK. I want one to add to the collection something awful, but financially right now I'm having to try and work out trade deals

[austin7.62]

best bet for anything century built is to see it in person. hacked up magwells and canted front sights are among several hit or miss problems.

True, but Century's problems have mostly been solved. Any AK you buy can have canted sights. I've seen Arsenals that can't be zeroed because of cant. Yes, it's best to look at an AK in person before you buy it, but if you buy from an online vendor, you can always refuse it at your FFL. My first O-PAP I bought was a dud. JGsales paid for return shipping, and free shipping on the second one for me. Couldn't be happier with it.

[whitewolf001]

*delete

Edited September 28, 2013 by whitewolf001

[whitewolf001]

True, but Century's problems have mostly been solved. Any AK you buy can have canted sights. I've seen Arsenals that can't be zeroed because of cant. Yes, it's best to look at an AK in person before you buy it, but if you buy from an online vendor, you can always refuse it at your FFL. My first O-PAP I bought was a dud. JGsales paid for return shipping, and free shipping on the second one for me. Couldn't be happier with it.

My Century CETME reciever was FUBAR. When I first had it, it liked feeding SOME mags but not others. Sold it to my dad for $400 and he spent well over a month realigning the reciever so it would accept the H&K paratrooper stock I got him for his birthday. The slots on the reciever that accpet the stock's guide rods were canted by about a quarter inch, it was really bad... now it runs all mags just fine.

[whitewolf001]

Good thread and great info, I'm glad you started it. I too have been trying to educate myself on the AK. I want one to add to the collection something awful, but financially right now I'm having to try and work out trade deals

If you find a Maadi or a MAK90 for under $750, buy em up as fast as you can! Dealer cost on WASR10's now is $500-550, I find that ridiculous considering I got one about 2 years ago for $350.

Edited September 28, 2013 by whitewolf001

[UncleJak]

If you find a Maadi or a MAK90 for under $750, buy em up as fast as you can! Dealer cost on WASR10's now is $500-550, I find that ridiculous considering I got one about 2 years ago for $350.

I wanted a maadi but settled for a wasr :(
Of course I only paid 400 for my wasr.
I can't believe how high they have gotten.
I've shot jusy about all of the ak variants and the maadi is by far my favorite

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[Smith]

True, but Century's problems have mostly been solved. Any AK you buy can have canted sights. I've seen Arsenals that can't be zeroed because of cant. Yes, it's best to look at an AK in person before you buy it, but if you buy from an online vendor, you can always refuse it at your FFL. My first O-PAP I bought was a dud. JGsales paid for return shipping, and free shipping on the second one for me. Couldn't be happier with it.

This. Century generally doesn't do anything to AK's anymore. They just import them. Any mods they have done are farmed out to contractors because of the issues they had in the past. You still want to see it in person if it is a WASR. Most I've seen are fine but I saw one last night that was wrong from one end to the other.

 

The Yugo's (Serbian)/Zastava's are very nice. Built on the heavier RPK receiver and their fit and finish are generally very good. Wood on them is very nice as well. Their only "drawback", to some,is they don't use chromed lined barrels. Not a huge issue IMO, but to some it is an issue. Especially if it is a 5.45 variety. The nicest variant on the market is the Vepr's but they are low imports at the moment. They use a a heavy RPK (1.6mm vs. 1.0mm receiver) and a heavy chrome lined hammer forged barrel. Absolute best thing out there from any measurement.  

 

Thing to remember about Ak's is that when people talk a bout a good and a bad Ak they are mostly talking about aesthetics. Even an AK with canted sights, GB, or rear trunnion is still going to run longer than you will probably live and if is is a "finish" issue, satin/semi-gloss hi-temp rattle can is almost identical to what the Russians are using on production guns. 

[whitewolf001]

Also, don't get any ATI AK furniture, bought a set for my AK74, twas crap, bought my WASR and it had the same one on it too, twas crap also. Steer clear of it. :2cents:

[R1100R]

They're all good. How do I know? Because the politicians hate them all... and, anything that the politicians hate, has to be good. Any opinions on the Romy "G" parts kits on here...from actual experience?

 

I had a custom build made out of a Romy G kit by a armorer in Clarksville. I would put the quality of the build against any thing out there. I have had a CETME and a Tantal build from Century and will never buy anything from them again. 

[broylz]

I agree. I had an ATI folding stock on a SAR-1 and it didn't survive my drive to the range in the trunk of my car. don't remember hitting any huge potholes but anything short of wrecking my car should have no effect of the rifle stock in the trunk.

Edited September 28, 2013 by broylz

[austin7.62]

My Century CETME reciever was FUBAR. When I first had it, it liked feeding SOME mags but not others. Sold it to my dad for $400 and he spent well over a month realigning the reciever so it would accept the H&K paratrooper stock I got him for his birthday. The slots on the reciever that accpet the stock's guide rods were canted by about a quarter inch, it was really bad... now it runs all mags just fine.

I meant with AKs. I'm not all sure what they do to many other of the rifles they import though. All they do with the AKs they import are put in compliance parts and widen mag wells. My new O-PAP has the following US parts added by Century: G2 trigger (3 parts), muzzle brake, and the gas piston. Kinda hard to mess up putting those parts in lol.

[austin7.62]

I would pick up a Saiga and convert it yourself. They are imported as BRAND NEW GUNS, not built from a parts kit. They are real Russian AK rifles built on real Russian receivers built in a real Russian factory by real Russian workers. You can easily convert one in under an hour and under $200. You can shop around and convert one for close to $100 if you are willing to wait.
 
It takes no special tools. My first one I converted I used an electric hand drill and a pair of pliers.

+1

They've got that sweet CHF barrel too. Will last 5 lifetimes.

[Guest chuck66]

I have a Yugo M70 fixed stock that I bought in 2008.  It's been great.  Fit and finish are very nice, sites are straight, and it runs like a champ.   No regrets with it, other than I just don't get around to shooting it anymore.