Here is a dose of Big Brother you might not like...

[RobertNashville]

There is. It's called the US Constitution. More should read it! It is really a profound document many

have no idea about, and is chock full of protections against the kind of stuff we see get through

Congress that shouldn't. It is the defining difference between a nation of laws and a nation of men.

 

We don't seem to grasp that very much, though, when we should always default to it.

What does the Constitution mean when Presidents, Senators, Representatives and even Supreme Court Justices seem able to ignor it or circumvente it when it suites their purposes?  It IS a profound, even beautiful document but one that is being routinely ignored. I believe there was once a time when even the worst of our politicians had SOME basic sense of fairness...right and wrong; I believe that a majority now have no such basic moral structure at all.

 

How "Constitutinal" are any of the firearm laws we currently have?  How can survalance by the NSA not be a violation of the 4th Amendment?  Who does one appearl to those in charge simply ignor you?  I've seen (and I suspect you've seen) the world turned upside down just in our adult lifetimes...what was once considered good citizenship is now mocked by our own representatives as being anti-American and dangerous attitudes.

 

As long we have immoral, dishonest people in positions in power we can and shoudl expect technonogy to be used against us whether it's monitoring what we say on our phones, or on internet forums or the things we think are "private" even in our own homes.

[Mike.357]

Yes it does matter what we think, Mike. How do you think the Tea Party came about? Is it just spitting in the wind?

I hope you know that all I'm trying to do is get you to change your attitude about this stuff. The more people get

back in the game, the more chance for success in defeating tyranny.

 

Complacence doesn't pay the bills when the price is too high. Tyranny raises prices to the point of absolute

power stripping us of any liberty God, or whoever a person chooses to believe in, gave us. Next thing is a

Stalin like Utopia.

 

Sound good?

 

I feel what you are saying Mark.   

 

But I do think it is spitting into the wind.   I do not believe enough people can get in the game to make a difference.  Way too many people having their hands filled with free stuff.  They are never going to want a change.  Combine them with the people who believe it is the right thing to do by giving handouts and you have a majority that is not getting smaller but larger.

 

The Tea Party has made a negligible difference.

[JayC]

The issue in this case isn't the technology...  It's about restricting the government's ability to store data and access data they would otherwise not have a constitutional reason to access.

 

The federal government shouldn't have access to drivers license data, we should have a state law that prevents that from being shared without a court order with any other government entity outside of TDOS.  DHS should not be able to buy from a private company data that could not collect without a warrant or court order....

 

The technology shouldn't concern you...  it's the unconstitutional ways the government is collecting and storing data that should.  Take away the database that has 200 million americans in it...  take away the ability of the government to keep data from this Hockey game for more than 24 or 48 hours....  and the technology won't be a problem.

[DaveTN]

The federal government shouldn't have access to drivers license data, we should have a state law that prevents that from being shared without a court order with any other government entity outside of TDOS.  

The state has the absolute right to keep your DL info away from other agencies. That would mean no reciprocity with other states, or using your TN DL as ID.

[bersaguy]

I feel what you are saying Mark.   

 

But I do think it is spitting into the wind.   I do not believe enough people can get in the game to make a difference.  Way too many people having their hands filled with free stuff.  They are never going to want a change.  Combine them with the people who believe it is the right thing to do by giving handouts and you have a majority that is not getting smaller but larger.

 

The Tea Party has made a negligible difference.

 

Mike has touched on one point that is a true fact for sure. The Tea Party is working hard and has made many positive strides in bringing back many aspects of Patriotism that was being lost. I don't mind telling anyone I am a proud member of the Tea party in Tennessee.  I ask any of you here that are true patriots to join if your not in already. Right now they are one of the most powerful tools there is out their in getting our country back where is should be. It was the Tea Party elected members of the House that push the Speaker last week on the vote they took and won. The Speaker took the credit for it but it was the Tea Party that played to biggest role in it. As the tea party grows so does the Patriotism across this nation. Then as that grows so does our people who still know and love to Constitution grow and the word spreads............jmho 

[Guest semiautots]

The Consitution is a wonderful document.  However, it is totally dependent on the government to enforce it.  It cannot force the government to enforce it.  Therefore, it is ignored by the tyrannist.  The only way to enforce that wonderful, divinely inspired document is through election or revolution. 

 

How has the election process been working for us?

[Guest The Itis]

Best way to increase surveillance? Have every citizen armed with a phone that has a camera, so that when anything happens, you can just take them for evidence. Best part of this? These people are doing it willingly, taking pictures and videos of many parts of their life.

 

It's not government intrusion when you have people uploading garbage for the public to see at the rate they currently do.

Not that big a leap to just have the government have remote access to all phone cameras. How do you feel knowing someone could be using your webcam as you read this? Because that is not that hard to do. Remember when Batman accessed all those cell phones and Morgan Freeman quit because it was 'too much power for one man' or whatever? Again, not that hard to do- you've got millions of people willingly carrying their phones 24/7. Abusing that situation is all too tempting for our government to pass on.

[TMF]

The Consitution is a wonderful document. However, it is totally dependent on the government to enforce it. It cannot force the government to enforce it. Therefore, it is ignored by the tyrannist. The only way to enforce that wonderful, divinely inspired document is through election or revolution.

How has the election process been working for us?

About as good as any society that elects their leaders.... half the country throws a hissy fit and the other half realizes the guy they voted for hasn't done what he promised.

As for revolutions, I'm sure you'll be volunteering your kids first for the meat grinder if you're strong in your beliefs that option B is viable.

[Guest TankerHC]

Problem is that too many people mistake the words of the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. The Declaration outlined the Founders reasoning for their actions. Afterward they created a Representative Republic giving everyone the right to vote (Nearly). Something they didn't have. Now we have it, thanks to them and their blood spilled and treasure lost, and the people wont use it. They sit home on their asses and do nothing but whine and complain.

 

And too many people mistake a Revolution and a Civil War as being one in the same. Far from it. The US Civil War was not the 2nd American Revolution. It was a Civil War, period. Historical and Political reasoning are different. 

 

What we will get if someone decides to ignite it, will be a Civil War, not a Revolution. And there wont be any winter Quarters to prep up or train for 3 months before the campaign season, and there wont be any masking your forces to blindside the enemy, too many eyes in the sky, and the opposition will not outgun the government. No matter how many of our forces stand down. 

 

I am no coward by any stretch, and if it were to come to that I would certainly do what my ancestors did. but having said that, before any triggers are pulled, maybe the people who sat on their ass and did nothing when being told full well what was going to happen (for the last 60 years) should exercise the right our Founding Fathers gave us. The right to Revolution without going through what they went through. 

 

All the people have to do is VOTE. 

 

Too many people didnt have a horse in this race. Well they do now. 

Edited September 22, 2013 by TankerHC

[RobertNashville]

Problem is that too many people mistake the words of the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. The Declaration outlined the Founders reasoning for their actions. Afterward they created a Representative Republic giving everyone the right to vote (Nearly). Something they didn't have. Now we have it, thanks to them and their blood spilled and treasure lost, and the people wont use it. They sit home on their asses and do nothing but whine and complain.

 

And too many people mistake a Revolution and a Civil War as being one in the same. Far from it. The US Civil War was not the 2nd American Revolution. It was a Civil War, period. Historical and Political reasoning are different. 

 

What we will get if someone decides to ignite it, will be a Civil War, not a Revolution. And there wont be any winter Quarters to prep up or train for 3 months before the campaign season, and there wont be any masking your forces to blindside the enemy, too many eyes in the sky, and the opposition will not outgun the government. No matter how many of our forces stand down. 

 

I am no coward by any stretch, and if it were to come to that I would certainly do what my ancestors did. but having said that, before any triggers are pulled, maybe the people who sat on their ass and did nothing when being told full well what was going to happen (for the last 60 years) should exercise the right our Founding Fathers gave us. The right to Revolution without going through what they went through. 

 

All the people have to do is VOTE. 

 

Too many people didnt have a horse in this race. Well they do now. 

It probably isn't importnat there but I'd submit that technically, the American Revolutionary War was a civil war...it was citizens of England who didn't want to be citizens of England any longer fighting citizens of Eng;amd; we just don't call it a civil war.

 

Anyway...voting can change things but I'm unfortunately in agreement with the sentiments of many here that I think things have gone too far for too long and we have far too many people who are registered to vote and do vote who are completely illinformed or uninformed or simply too stupid to be able to make rational decisions leaving the rest of us in the minority. That knowledge won't stop me form voting but my expectations aren't very high any more.

[Chucktshoes]

Tanker, I will also point out that the franchise was not nearly as universal initially as you make it sound. Initially the franchise was restricted to white, landowning males above the age of 21. Non land owners in got the vote prior to Lincoln's War, Blacks got the vote in increments from the 1860s to 1960s, women in the 1920s and 18-20 year olds in 71. There is a very strong case to be made that as the franchise was expanded to those without real skin in the game, the deterioration of the country accelerated.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

it doesn't matter what we think.  Our opinions don't matter when it boils down to what is best for us.

 

It is definitely a dose of big brother I don't like.

Nor I and 6.8 hit on why. It's wide open for abuse and considering the laws already on the books, everyone of us is criminal, in some aspect. It's just a matter of when they wanna use it against you. Hope I die first and my kids and grandkids can keep that in check 'cause we sho' did a lousy job of it.

[JayC]

A drivers license can be valid without access to the raw data...  We can provide a method to verify the license is valid and not suspended and even give other states access to verify the picture matches the person in front of them without giving the other states access to our database, and what access we give them can have strict limits placed on the use of that access.

 

Technology works both ways...  I can produce a license that can be verified without giving you access to anything in my database other than the ability to verify the license is valid.

 

The state has the absolute right to keep your DL info away from other agencies. That would mean no reciprocity with other states, or using your TN DL as ID.

 

[Guest semiautots]

About as good as any society that elects their leaders.... half the country throws a hissy fit and the other half realizes the guy they voted for hasn't done what he promised.

As for revolutions, I'm sure you'll be volunteering your kids first for the meat grinder if you're strong in your beliefs that option B is viable.

 

I would never volunteer my children for something that I could, and should, do myself.  Option B is the last resort.  It will mean the deaths of millions.  But yet we keep trudging right at it.

[Guest TankerHC]

That's why I said nearly. But yes, absolutely correct. On the Revolution vs Civil War..I could debate that one for a solid week. Time to find a local RT.


Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

[TMF]

I would never volunteer my children for something that I could, and should, do myself. Option B is the last resort. It will mean the deaths of millions. But yet we keep trudging right at it.

The way I interpret your original post I quoted was that you would condone revolution over voting due to voting not returning what you want. If revolution is your choice you are choosing to involve your kids in the fight. They will die of bullets, bombs or starvation in the event of widespread revolution. Any insurgency in our country would last for decades before both sides came to the table. Whatever age your kids are, if they survive to 16 they will find themselves on the battlefield. I don't want that for my kids. I value freedom, and so long as I have a voice in government I will not resort to violence. We still have a voice. Individually your voice doesn't matter, but collectively it does.

Choosing to default to armed rebellion because you're not getting your way is beyond what I can comprehend. There are many more nonviolent strategies that can be employed to shift us back in the direction of the base principles of liberty; we aren't effectively using them because many of the people on the side of liberty aren't willing to let go of political lead weights. That is not going to motivate me to sacrifice myself or my kids on the altar of freedom, simply because other people refuse to pull their heads out of each other's asses. In fact, while I may believe in the ideals of those who would revolt, I would fundamentally disagree with the manner in which they choose to revolt, to the point I would don a uniform once again to put those people into the ground.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I feel what you are saying Mark.

But I do think it is spitting into the wind. I do not believe enough people can get in the game to make a difference. Way too many people having their hands filled with free stuff. They are never going to want a change. Combine them with the people who believe it is the right thing to do by giving handouts and you have a majority that is not getting smaller but larger.

The Tea Party has made a negligible difference.

How long have the two major parties been around? Now, how
long has the Tea Party been around? I submit to you that what
Bersaguy just said is true and the Tea Party has affected a lot
in a small amount of time.
Is that not worth continuing? Would you rather just sit back and
wait? For what?

[Guest semiautots]

The way I interpret your original post I quoted was that you would condone revolution over voting due to voting not returning what you want. If revolution is your choice you are choosing to involve your kids in the fight. They will die of bullets, bombs or starvation in the event of widespread revolution. Any insurgency in our country would last for decades before both sides came to the table. Whatever age your kids are, if they survive to 16 they will find themselves on the battlefield. I don't want that for my kids. I value freedom, and so long as I have a voice in government I will not resort to violence. We still have a voice. Individually your voice doesn't matter, but collectively it does.

Choosing to default to armed rebellion because you're not getting your way is beyond what I can comprehend. There are many more nonviolent strategies that can be employed to shift us back in the direction of the base principles of liberty; we aren't effectively using them because many of the people on the side of liberty aren't willing to let go of political lead weights. That is not going to motivate me to sacrifice myself or my kids on the altar of freedom, simply because other people refuse to pull their heads out of each other's asses. In fact, while I may believe in the ideals of those who would revolt, I would fundamentally disagree with the manner in which they choose to revolt, to the point I would don a uniform once again to put those people into the ground.

 

Your self-righteous indignation is noted.  I would not expect you to sacrifice anything.  At least not your life, liberty, or sacred honor.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Your self-righteous indignation is noted.  I would not expect you to sacrifice anything.  At least not your life, liberty, or sacred honor.

I can't believe you said that. I believe he has put himself on the line many times for life, liberty and sacred honor.

Maybe you misunderstood what he said?

[Guest semiautots]

I can't believe you said that. I believe he has put himself on the line many times for life, liberty and sacred honor.

Maybe you misunderstood what he said?

 

Do you think he's the only one?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

No, but self-righteous indignation doesn't make sense, either. Did I question yours?

[RobertNashville]

It seems pretty incredible (and not in a good way) to me that someone would question the sense of liberty or self-sacrificing nature of a member whom he doesn't know and has never met.

 

Even if semiautos and TMF do know each other, making such assertions is something that I sincerely hope isn't tolerated.

Edited September 23, 2013 by RobertNashville

[mav]

. In fact, while I may believe in the ideals of those who would revolt, I would fundamentally disagree with the manner in which they choose to revolt, to the point I would don a uniform once again to put those people into the ground.

I agree with your earlier comments, but it seems to me that the above is contradictory to your signature. Putting people in the ground isn't defending those you disagree with. ;)

Any talk of armed revolt at this point is nonsensical, and in all cases it is just people talking out their asses.

[mav]

It seems pretty incredible (and not in a good way) to me that someone would question the sense of liberty or self-sacrificing nature of a member whom he doesn't know and has never met.
 
Even if semiautos and TMF do know each other, making such assertions is something that I sincerely hope isn't tolerated.

Why make a big deal of it? Someone gave their opinion on someone else's post and said something foolish based on their ignorance of the individual. Ain't the first time, and won't be the last. I think TMF can handle himself and doesn't need moderator intervention.

[TMF]

Your self-righteous indignation is noted. I would not expect you to sacrifice anything. At least not your life, liberty, or sacred honor.

I guess you'll never know how amusing this statement is to me.