This must be the new math taught in school

[mav]

According to our President, raising the debt ceiling does not mean we are increasing our debt.

 

Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy.  All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you've already racked up, Congress.  It's a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved.

 

Geeze that guy is an a$$.  Oh well, I guess there are people out there stupid enough to believe what he is saying.

 

http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/craig-bannister/obama-raising-debt-ceilingdoes-not-increase-our-debt-though-it-has-over

[mikegideon]

He's convinced that over half the country is stupid. He's correct.

[Jonnin]

I thought the debt ceil was how much total the USA is allowed to owe?  In which case, its kind of like my credit rating say they raise my credit to 1mil worth ... even though I can go out and borrow the better part of a million bucks now,  I don't have to do it,  so my debt is not increased by having a higher credit rating so long as I do not use it.

 

Reality is, though, congress will find a way to spend to the limit again.  Much like a fool with a credit card, congress can't be trusted to stop borrowing more.  Also, if they NEED to raise the limit then their PLAN is to borrow more.  Otherwise, it does not need to be raised, does it?  

 

So, reality, its not terribly accurate.  In fantasy land where we have credit that we do not use up, maybe its a half truth.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The debt limit I suppose is one of the basic limits on how much money that the fed reserve can create out of thin air? Though the fed can do it other ways, such as buying worthless commercial paper (which ought to just be tossed into the dumpster along with rotten cabbage and other garbage).

 

However, "monetizing the debt", buying newly-issued treasuries using newly-printed money-- Maybe the Fed can't keep monetizing the debt if the debt limit prevents the government from issuing new treasury bonds?

 

The Fed will also loan new-printed money to big banks, and then the big banks buy the bonds, then after a short time the Fed buys the bonds from the bank (yielding the bank a tidy short-term profit) while somewhat masking the magnitude of bonds directly bought by the fed, the naked direct printing of money. Banks won't make so much short-term bond profit, if the debt limit restricts the flow of new bonds?

Edited September 19, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[bersaguy]

I say they keep the limit where it is and let Obama figure out how to cover that crazy spending binge he seems to be on. Make him account for every dollar he has spent over the last year. Then maybe, just maybe we can find out where our tax dollars are going since they don't seem they are being spent on helping Americans lives improve. Lets see how much money he is sneaking to the Muslim Brotherhood that could better be spent on things for Americans...........jmho

[JohnC]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro v2.2

[JohnC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iTBODoBaCns

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_debt/us_debt.html

Scroll down the page. :up:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro v2.2 Edited September 20, 2013 by JohnC

[Sam1]

I agree with him 100%; raising the debt ceiling DOES NOT increase the debt.  However, maxing out the credit card right after your limit is increased does.

 

So, if raising the debt ceiling does not increase the debt, then we should be fine at the level we are currently at because there are apparently no plans to go over the current limit?  Sounds like this whole thing is a non-issue then.

[UncleJak]

I agree with him 100%; raising the debt ceiling DOES NOT increase the debt. However, maxing out the credit card right after your limit is increased does.

So, if raising the debt ceiling does not increase the debt, then we should be fine at the level we are currently at because there are apparently no plans to go over the current limit? Sounds like this whole thing is a non-issue then.

you are probably right. They already owe that amount. Raising the debt ceiling just allows them to pay it. But the debt is waaaay out of control
I have some solutions: tax all income equally; including welfare (can you guys believe food stamps are untaxed? ?), cut all non-essential programs.
Seems simple enough. Too bad I can't be president. .

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[Oh Shoot]

The yearly deficit percentage has actually fallen over the last two years, but of course we're still spending more each year than we take in.

 

But as far as the "debt limit", if we actually spent no more than we actually took in for now on, the national debt will continue to rise just due to interest. The only way to actual lower the national debt it to pay the yearly minimum payments plus a large enough hunk more so that overall payment eventually starts to decrease. Like, you know, the same way you'd pay off a credit card.

 

People are forgetting that the US is paying the lowest interest rate on it's "loans" perhaps in history. If world economy improves to the point where we have to offer 4,5,6 % to get takers, that's the ball game, the USD will go kaput. Although ultimately it will at this rate too.

 

The day OPEC decides not to take the USD for oil, that's probably Kaputsville for it too.

 

- OS

Edited September 20, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Sam1]

you are probably right. They already owe that amount. Raising the debt ceiling just allows them to pay it. But the debt is waaaay out of control
I have some solutions: tax all income equally; including welfare (can you guys believe food stamps are untaxed? ?), cut all non-essential programs.
Seems simple enough. Too bad I can't be president. .

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

 

speaking of non-essential programs... check this out:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/18/community-service-for-welfare/2834157/

[UncleJak]

speaking of non-essential programs... check this out: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/18/community-service-for-welfare/2834157/

I think all welfare recipients should work. It's biblical "if you don't work, you don't eat".
There are so manu wasteful programs....makes me sick...

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[mav]

I agree with him 100%; raising the debt ceiling DOES NOT increase the debt.  

 

Yes and no.  From an academic perspective, raising the debt ceiling does not increase the debt.  However, coming back to the real world, can anyone point out to me when we raised the debt ceiling and didn't actually increase our debt?  I don't know that it has happened.  Therefore, I believe the definition of debt ceiling, in relation to our government financing, should be properly defined as the amount of money the government can borrow to incur more debt.

Edited September 20, 2013 by mav

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Rush and Hannity had the audio clip from 2007 when Obama was commenting on his vote against raising the debt

ceiling to 8 trillion. "Now, that's trillion, folks." Well, now it's doubled, and it's mostly his baby.

[frankmako]

He's convinced that over half the country is stupid. He's correct.

 

and they voted for him.  feed the "low information voter" the small sound bites to make them feel good and keep the free money flowing.  all is good, nothing to see here.

[Jonnin]

I think all welfare recipients should work. It's biblical "if you don't work, you don't eat".
There are so manu wasteful programs....makes me sick...

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

 

I follow the exact opposite school of thought.  The folks that should get money are the ones who *cant* work, really and truly.  Those who are so handicapped they cannot do even menial tasks --- extreme paralysis,  mentally unable (and not talking stressed out or a bit slow here, talking either full on batcrap crazy or vegatative capacity), terminally ill, extremely old, and so on.  People that can work should not need a constant infusion of cash from the govt for their entire careers --- a brief interest free loan would satisfy the bulk of those who need help but have a job and are trying.

[enfield]

Borrowing money every month to pay your bills only works when you have a large supply of stupid 'lenders' and you have no intention of ever repaying the debt.

[mav]

I follow the exact opposite school of thought.  The folks that should get money are the ones who *cant* work, really and truly.  Those who are so handicapped they cannot do even menial tasks --- extreme paralysis,  mentally unable (and not talking stressed out or a bit slow here, talking either full on batcrap crazy or vegatative capacity), terminally ill, extremely old, and so on.  People that can work should not need a constant infusion of cash from the govt for their entire careers --- a brief interest free loan would satisfy the bulk of those who need help but have a job and are trying.

 

You are correct, and that is a biblical viewpoint as well.  If churches and charities will not fill that role, I have no problem with my tax dollars doing it.

[UncleJak]

I follow the exact opposite school of thought. The folks that should get money are the ones who *cant* work, really and truly. Those who are so handicapped they cannot do even menial tasks --- extreme paralysis, mentally unable (and not talking stressed out or a bit slow here, talking either full on batcrap crazy or vegatative capacity), terminally ill, extremely old, and so on. People that can work should not need a constant infusion of cash from the govt for their entire careers --- a brief interest free loan would satisfy the bulk of those who need help but have a job and are trying.

you're right. I wasn't referring to people who genuinely need assistance. Of all the people I have encountered who received welfare, maybe two actually needed it. (I've met thousands)
I worked at a store that had a guy with downs syndrome working there. He couldn't do a lot but he wanted to work. He earned the respect of everyone he met. He didn't have to work but chose to!


sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee