House plans to vote on de-funding obamacare

[div]

If you have read the entire bill(law), then you know about all the extra services that are given to individuals and families

who have never participated in any kind of healthcare cost, only benefits.Then you also know about the mandate coming

from the panel in DC, or wherever they will end up, that will decide your fate. That isn't from Fox News, friend. That has

been front and center for a long time.

 

Also, if you read the entire bill, you might have noticed how it is being frontloaded in collections, when it still can't be launched

because it is running out of money. Explain to me why so many companies are opting to pay a fine, rather than covering the cost

of insurance to their employees, which is a shrinking pool, and the welfare state is increasing.

 

Explain to me why Nancy Pelosi didn't even know the content of the bill, along with every other one of her cohorts who voted for it.

 

If you read the bill, you might try reading it again. I know with things that large, I find I have to, on occasion.

 

And, if this is some kind of smack on Fox, which I think it is, you might try backing up a statement like you did with some substance,

not innuendo.

 

Ah... specific objections. This, I will happily discuss.

 

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific on the extra services given to individuals and families that have never participated in any kind of healthcare. That's sort of what the ACA is - providing healthcare to everyone. Maybe I misunderstand you.

 

As for the mandate from the panel that will decide your fate. I can only assume here that you're talking about the mythical "Death Panel" that Sarah Palin made up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel has a lot of good information on that, as well as links to all the sources that back it up. If that's NOT what you're talking about, then again, I'm afraid you'll need to be more specifc.

 

On the frontloading collections, cost, and penalties statement... Front-loading. The taxes and fees start immediately, but the subsidies are deferred. This, to me, is financial trickery, and it's rampant in business. I'm NOT a finance guy. I welcome anyone who can explain this crap to me in english. Sorry - until then I'm not qualified to debate it.

It is and has been launched, and the whole government is running out of money. The long term projections show premiums are and will continue to be affordable, and the program reduces the federal deficit.

 

On the companies paying a fine rather than offer care. This statement, and another I saw from someone else along the lines of employers reducing employee hours to get around having to provide insurance.... People are gaming the system, and you're blaming the system rather than the people. Ok, so the employer pays the fine, which goes to fund other provisions of the ACA. the employee buys insurance from the state exchange. average cost where it's been rolled already is <$200 per month. I pay more than that for my employer provided insurance now. who's losing here?

 

The Nancy Pelosi statement is true, and applies both ways. How can you vote for, or against, a bill if you don't know what's in it? I personally think we should throw every politician in office currently out. They're all bought and paid for by lobbies, PACs, and special interest groups. But that's another discussion altogether.

 

I have a pdf of the passed bill open right now. i fully agree - with anything this size, and this level of complexity it takes more than one reading to comprehend. Hell - i could be completely wrong in some of my interpretations of what i've read. That's why i invite discussion. I just happen to prefer informed discussion rather than regurgitated political talking points.

 

Which brings me to the point of my earlier message. No, it's not a slam on Fox. It's a slam on people who blindly believe media reports (any and all - CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc) without doing any reserach or knowing anything about the topic other than what they see on TV. Someone who is well dressed and on my favorite TV channel said it, so it must be true.

 

There are flaws in Obamacare. It's not perfect and I never said it was. But a lot of the hype and rhetoric i see and hear about it are just that. And unless we get rid of the noise, we can't get to fixing the real issues.  

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I can't believe it.  The House actually passed it.  I have been very critical of Republicans the last couple of years, and rightly so, but they deserve my thanks on this one.  Even though nothing may come of it, it was still a good vote.

Don't lump them all together, Mav. Remember, among the bunch are the Pauls, the Cruz's and other Tea Party members

who pushed this down Boehner's throat. There are just enough of the good guys to make the bad guys flinch. Many other

names I can't seem to remember, but there are many in the House, nowadays. Boehner and Cantorcould only ignore it for

so long before they lost the whole party. If they begin to ignore them again, they may just tip over the boat and the Tea Party

could springboard into the major replacement. Karl Rove couldn't do much more than to suck up to some Democrat, at that

point. He is losing his war. Boehner is confirming it by conceding to the good guys.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Don't use mythical again unless you have more than Wiki to back up your statement, okay? :D

 

The frontloading was by design to start the process and make it look like it would meet a goal for a year or two, which it

can't because they can't even get the pools working with the money they have, at present. That's not a business tactic.

That is a tactic brought on by government intrusion by the use of the IRS mandating the way entities operate. Might as

well say it is another government roadblock.

 

As far as people or companies gaming the system, you work within an imposed system. You can't pass blame onto the

companies when it was the bill itself that made the rules. In other words, I will do what I must to survive.

 

The slam on Fox in that case, I will concede to how you answered it. I don't blindly follow anyone in the news. If you haven't, you might peruse many of my posts. You might see it.

 

No, there are no flaws in the ACA, there are only designs to destroy our country by bankrupting it, and increasing unemployment, reducing the number of people paying in to a system, and allowing more into the system, at the same time. Now, tell me how a sane person could agree with such a bill? One that is top heavy in management(bureacrats in DC), top heavy in bums(all the welfare cost shifting and illegals who are more likely to be included in the system) and less doctors in the profession, due to the diminishing dollars in the system.

 

There is absolutely nothing good about the ACA, if you can describe anything coming out of DC as good or bad.

Edited September 20, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[mikegideon]

 

There is absolutely nothing good about the ACA, if you can describe anything coming out of DC as good or bad.

 

Bull! If I get the clap, I can get free shots :). I guess you want me giving the clap to all my baby mamas. You're a cruel bastard  :rofl:

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's only if there is a witness to when you got the clap, and if Ms. Sebelius thinks you're cute, like Erik. :D

[mikegideon]

That's only if there is a witness to when you got the clap, and if Ms. Sebelius thinks you're cute, like Erik. :D

 

Oh no  :eek:

[bersaguy]

This is my take on the Affordable Health Care Act and it's credibility. The entire bill was crafted by a complete democratic group of people. They would not let 1 republican in the room during it's creation. It was started on about the 22nd day of December when all but the few Democrats that were creating this monster was on holiday leave. It was completed on Christmas eve at 11:50 PM and the democrats rested and went home for the rest of holiday leave. After the holiday Leave and everyone was back in Washington DC the Botox queen placed the bill she almost need help carrying on the Presidents desk. He ask her what was in it and he exact words were Quote   " You have to sign it to learn whats in it"  !!!!!! Now any one with any sense at all which does leave Obama out evidently would not have signed it until they knew what was in it but instead he whipped out that rack of pens he likes to used and signed away this country. Since then because he still does not know what is in it he has had to write executive orders on several occasions extending parts of the bill for a year because not only him but most of the Senate could not figure out how to implement a particular part of it until it is fixed. This Bill is going to be more devastating to this country than the sinking of the titanic, Bombing of Pearl Harbor, attack on the country on 9/11 and last two more wars all wrapped up together in this 1100 page bill...........The only thing good that can come from this bill would be it's de-funding that would save our country from total and complete bankruptcy............jmho

[kieefer]

I really don't care what's in the bill. This Professor has sorted it out if anyone cares to read it - http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm

 

What I do care about is (1) more government intrusion in my life, Medicare and the SS program should be enough examples of why we don't need more government in our lives, not to mention the IRS.

(2) our national debt being expanded even more than it is now, the country cannot afford another wasteful, fraud infested program that will bound to go bankrupt just like many current gov-programs.

(3) having a bill passed of this size and how many people it will effect should not have been passed with one party rule.

(4) I haven't seen a poll yet where the ACA is favorable and there's no doubt taxes will be raised to continue to fund it.

(5) our economy sucks and has been since the King took the throne, companies are reducing their workforce, we hear daily of layoffs and cutbacks due the uncertainty of the future, entitlement programs have record enrollment and some states have gone bankrupt or on the verge of it.

(6) we have a lot more problems to deal with and have several better solutions* to our HC problems than one that's being forced down our throats, unless of course the King grants you an exemption.

 

It's time to stop the monster of government growth, it needs to begin here with the unaffordable ACA. 

 

* http://www.gop.gov/indepth/pledge/healthcare

 

* http://www.heritage.org/research/projects/the-case-against-obamacare

[mikegideon]

[media] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cRsfW0Jv8 [/media]

[Guest ThePunisher]

There are flaws in Obamacare. It's not perfect and I never said it was. But a lot of the hype and rhetoric i see and hear about it are just that. And unless we get rid of the noise, we can't get to fixing the real issues.

Obamacare is the biggest government boondoggle ever in US history that's on path to bankrupt our country, destroy job creation, increase healthcare costs for everyone, and destroy the best healthcare system ever devised in world history. The best thing that could happen to Obamacare is to defund it before it is ever fully implemented. Flaws in Obamacare is describing it mildly as to what the actual reality is gonna be. I would describe it like a crap shoot where you are gambling your life walking through a mine field, or playing Russian roulette. The noise you're hearing is the loud roar of people telling our politicians to stop this runaway train that will inevitably crash. Even the main author of Obamacare Democrat Max Buacus is saying Obamacare is a train wreck waiting to happen. Fixing the real issues of Obamacare is to defund it so it cannot become the leviathan that will destroy everything resembling a capitalistic society. Edited September 21, 2013 by ThePunisher

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And don't assume all political talking points are wrong. Most of the time they are right, except for the tripe coming

from places like Media Matters and Moveon.org. Usually a crap kind of talking point is easy to spot.

 

Ah... specific objections. This, I will happily discuss.

 

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific on the extra services given to individuals and families that have never participated in any kind of healthcare. That's sort of what the ACA is - providing healthcare to everyone. Maybe I misunderstand you.

I had to, sorry. It is healthcare being provided to people who won't, and never will, pay a dime into it. Those are the ones

who will overburden the system and force the rest, who are forced to pay into it, to accept whatever the panel decides.

 

It is welfare and wealth redistribution, nothing else. Anything being provided to someone not paying into the system, I have

a problem with. I have been paying for my insurance all of my life, sometimes as a benefit, others not, and as far as I'm

concerned, starting with the Hill-Burton Act of 1947, that makes anyone, whether with money or not, accessible to the ER

services. That means someone else started back in 1947 to pay for other people's services, and has gone downhill, ever

since.

 

This bill was but one of the liberal's wet dreams of legislation that takes from me and gives to thee. It is the largest one on

record and is unsustainable.

 

I guess now that businesses see it for what it is, we are to blame businesses? You better be blaming Democrats and push

as hard as you can to get it de-funded permanently.

 

I have yet to hear a valid argument for socialism, of any kind, and if you think there is some good in this bill, remember its

premise before you argue it. It is not designed to fix anything in the health care system.

[blueghost]

A government shutdown in theory sounds nice and dandy and might even affect some positive change if it were to occur for a few days. However, I doubt that it would happen very long, if at all, especially when so many people depend on SSA and VA benefits, not to mention the air traffic controllers in the FAA, and meat inspectors, so on and so forth. The "leaders" are not going to risk it and any talk before October 1 is merely grandstanding.

Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17

[Oh Shoot]

Well, seems it will work this way:

 

Senate gets CR, strips Obamacare part out, sends it back to House, House has a few days to decide to either pass it, or "shut down government".

 

If it does the shutdown, then question is whether will be enough backlash in next year's midterm to lose more ground in Senate and perhaps lose House altogether? And whatever the influence is, will it continue all the way to '16?

 

- OS

Edited September 21, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Erik88]

We all know a "government shutdown" won't amount to anything. They did it back in the 90's when Clinton was in office.

 

I almost wish they would just let Obamacare progress because I feel like the repubs are going to get all the blame regardless of what happens.

 

If they let it continue then eventually everyone might see just how big a cluster F it is and the GOP might have a shot at 2016.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That depends on whether or not Reid decides to use the 51 vote rule, reserved for budget reconciliation. We don't

have a budget. Cruz thinks it is best to not vote on cloture and let the government shut down if this is what Reid

does. I agree with Cruz, but I have my doubts Lamar and Bob will go along with it, and Collins, from Maine.

 

I am firmly on Cruz's side and I think we need a shutdown, also.

 

When people get off their ass and get a job, that's when they should be able to get  to vote.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We all know a "government shutdown" won't amount to anything. They did it back in the 90's when Clinton was in office.

 

I almost wish they would just let Obamacare progress because I feel like the repubs are going to get all the blame regardless of what happens.

 

If they let it continue then eventually everyone might see just how big a cluster F it is and the GOP might have a shot at 2016.

Seen your O care premiums, yet?

[blueghost]

Premiums will vary state to state but this will give you an idea.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We all know a "government shutdown" won't amount to anything. They did it back in the 90's when Clinton was in office.

 

I almost wish they would just let Obamacare progress because I feel like the repubs are going to get all the blame regardless of what happens.

 

If they let it continue then eventually everyone might see just how big a cluster F it is and the GOP might have a shot at 2016.

And Clinton didn't get anything, in return, but took credit for everything that Congress passed until the end of his presidency.

That shutdown had good consequences. It kept a president at bay. I guess that didn't amount to anything, eh? There's more

to it than that, Erik.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Premiums will vary state to state but this will give you an idea.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17

Interesting. See anything wrong with it? :popcorn:

[blueghost]

Courtesy of wiki:

"A 2010 Congressional Research Service report summarized other details of the 1995-1996 government shutdowns, indicating the shutdown impacted all sectors of the economy. Health and welfare services for military veterans were curtailed; the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped disease surveillance; new clinical research patients were not accepted at the National Institutes of Health; and toxic waste clean-up work at 609 sites was halted. Other impacts included: the closure of 368 National Park sites resulted in the loss of some seven million visitors; 200,000 applications for passports and 20,000 to 30,000 applications for visas by foreigners went unprocessed each day; U.S. tourism and airline industries incurred millions of dollars in losses; more than 20% of federal contracts, representing $3.7 billion in spending, were affected adversely"

Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yep, it cost us taxpayers less, also.

[blueghost]

Interesting. See anything wrong with it? :popcorn:

Not sure what you mean...

Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17

[blueghost]

[quote name="6.8 AR" post="1036703" timestamp="1379731232"] Yep, it cost us taxpayers less, also.[/quote] Since the implementation of the Fed Reserve, we've been paying out the arse for decades upon decades. Different story for another day. Those 28 days or so in 95 and 96 were a blip on the radar comparatively speaking Sent from my GSIII using TPR 3.17 Edited September 21, 2013 by blueghost

[Erik88]

And Clinton didn't get anything, in return, but took credit for everything that Congress passed until the end of his presidency.

That shutdown had good consequences. It kept a president at bay. I guess that didn't amount to anything, eh? There's more

to it than that, Erik.

 

You sure are an ornery dude 6.8. I thought OhShoot was bad.

 

What I meant is that the world isn't going to end like the media is suggesting. I personally think it would be a good thing.

[Erik88]

Seen your O care premiums, yet?

 

I'm still trying to figure out what the law will change for me. Since I am insured through my employer what should I expect?