Starbucks caves

[mikegideon]

Some of y'all are missing the 2nd amendment. You may keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed on by the GOVERNMENT. I "googled" Starbucks, and no where did I find them to be a part of the Government. Therefore, your 2A rights mean nothing on their property, nor mine, nor anyone else's on here. Y'all are forgetting those facts! It's a fact we all have to live with.

 

DaveS

 

Bingo! You have NO rights on their property unless THEY grant them. I wish people would go to law school if they wanna try to be lawyers :)

[MacGyver]

 

As full disclosure, I do have to admit that I have only ever bought a Starbucks product (other than their bottled iced coffee that is available at convenience stores, etc.) on one occasion - and that was at one of their 'kiosk' type locations inside a Target.

 

Their double wall stainless travel cups are worth every penny.  I don't know if they put nuclear waste in between the layers or what, but I can make coffee at 0630 and it might be cool enough not to burn my tongue by 0900 or so.

[macville]

Some of y'all are missing the 2nd amendment. You may keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed on by the GOVERNMENT. I "googled" Starbucks, and no where did I find them to be a part of the Government. Therefore, your 2A rights mean nothing on their property, nor mine, nor anyone else's on here. Y'all are forgetting those facts! It's a fact we all have to live with.

 

DaveS

 

Try banning black people, gay people, etc. and see how far your rights go. Why can they ban one right, but then they have to allow someone else there because of their color or what not? Why do they have to accommodate disabled people? You don't actually have the right to refuse service to whoever your like for any reason your like (see the baker in WA over the gay couple's wedding cake.)

 

And I still can't find one person on this thread that answered my question of how do you get people used to guns without them being around and seeing guns everywhere?

[Garufa]

And I still can't find one person on this thread that answered my question of how do you get people used to guns without them being around and seeing guns everywhere?

 

The answer is you can't.

 

I see crap everyday from every direction that I'm supposed to "get used to".  Ain't gonna happen.  Why should people feel any different about guns?

[macville]

The answer is you can't.

 

I see crap everyday from every direction that I'm supposed to "get used to".  Ain't gonna happen.  Why should people feel any different about guns?

 

Except that people DO get used to it. May not be the full acceptance you are thinking of, but it happens. The gay community is a prime example of that. Look at what they've done in the last 30 years. You now have church dominations ordaining homosexuals, and even the most conservative Christians are accepting gays in ways 30 years ago you would have never thought. But the upside for us here is that it's not a moral issue like homosexuality. It's simply an issue that a ton of people have never been around a firearm and only know what the media tells them. Showing them that we don't go crazy with them but have them for everyday protection is important. But doing that without OC is impossible.

Edited September 18, 2013 by macville

[RobertNashville]

Try banning black people, gay people, etc. and see how far your rights go. Why can they ban one right, but then they have to allow someone else there because of their color or what not? Why do they have to accommodate disabled people? You don't actually have the right to refuse service to whoever your like for any reason your like (see the baker in WA over the gay couple's wedding cake.)

 

And I still can't find one person on this thread that answered my question of how do you get people used to guns without them being around and seeing guns everywhere?

A person's race or infirmity is not something they generally have much control over so, the Federal government stepped in and said that a business can't discriminate against someone for these basic (and so far, limited) things...it was a response to "colored" water fountains, restrooms and lunch counters as much as it was anything else and while I wish the government didn't need to step in and do that I think they clearly DID need to step in and do that and we are a better society for it because it ended an abhorrent and disgusting practice that shouldn't have been happening in the first place.

 

Maybe someday the Federal government will mandate that every business must allow anyone who wants to carry be allowed to carry any weapon of any design into anyplace they want; but I doubt it and frankly, there is no reason for them to do so...your right to arms does not trump and should not trump a business owner's right to say "not in my coffeehouse" unless there is a significant and overriding societal reason for the government to do so and I don't see any such reason here.

 

As to 'people getting used to guns"...why should people have to do that?  

Edited September 18, 2013 by RobertNashville

[DaveS]

Try banning black people, gay people, etc. and see how far your rights go. Why can they ban one right, but then they have to allow someone else there because of their color or what not? Why do they have to accommodate disabled people? You don't actually have the right to refuse service to whoever your like for any reason your like (see the baker in WA over the gay couple's wedding cake.)

 

And I still can't find one person on this thread that answered my question of how do you get people used to guns without them being around and seeing guns everywhere?

Sir, this is not about banning or refusing service to any one group of people based on religion, sex, age, national origin or skin color. You're taking this into a total other area. Has nothing to do with gun rights. As far as getting people "used to guns", why? I don't care that my neighbor's kids are afraid of guns. I just wait and shoot when their in school. It's not my business to get people "used to guns". It is however my business to insure that their encounter with me while armed is a positive one. And in that I mean, if I know people are afraid of guns or doesn't like them, I will keep my gun concealed and not shove it in their face at every opportunity. I think that's what you're missing here. I'm not going to shove my rights or beliefs on another person that doesn't want it. After all, it's THEIR RIGHT! Know the old saying, "Don't tread on me"? That goes for every American whether they like guns or not. Let's respect them for that. It will go a long for the future of our 2A rights.

 

DaveS

[macville]

A person's race or infirmity is not something they generally have much control over so, the Federal government stepped in and said that a business can't discriminate against someone for these basic (and so far, limited) things...it was a response to "colored" water fountains, restrooms and lunch counters as much as it was anything else and while I wish the government didn't need to step in and do that I think they clearly DID need to step in and do that and we are a better society for it because it ended an abhorrent and disgusting practice that shouldn't have been happening in the first place.

 

Maybe someday the Federal government will mandate that every business must allow anyone who wants to carry be allowed to carry any weapon of any design into anyplace they want; but I doubt it and frankly, there is no reason for them to do so...your right to arms does not trump and should not trump a business owner's right to say "not in my coffeehouse" unless there is a significant and overriding societal reason for the government to do so and I don't see any such reason here.

 

As to 'people getting used to guns"...why should people have to do that?  

 

While I agree with you that it is better for our society, you could argue that about many things...including guns. But by doing so they said that people have a RIGHT to be on your property and you to serve them. If it were true property rights then people could ban whoever and whatever, but they can't.

 

As much as the core of our rights are God given, they don't matter unless people acknowledge them. When people are used to something, it's not a big deal. That's why firearms in TN aren't a huge deal compared to DC or Chicago, or a good chunk of the NE US. When the major majority of Americans start to not care about firearms, then that's when it becomes very dangerous for the 2d. You can see this with many other rights (1st, 4th, etc) and how Americans have become so used to NOT using their rights that they give them up willingly.

[macville]

Sir, this is not about banning or refusing service to any one group of people based on religion, sex, age, national origin or skin color. You're taking this into a total other area. Has nothing to do with gun rights. As far as getting people "used to guns", why? I don't care that my neighbor's kids are afraid of guns. I just wait and shoot when their in school. It's not my business to get people "used to guns". It is however my business to insure that their encounter with me while armed is a positive one. And in that I mean, if I know people are afraid of guns or doesn't like them, I will keep my gun concealed and not shove it in their face at every opportunity. I think that's what you're missing here. I'm not going to shove my rights or beliefs on another person that doesn't want it. After all, it's THEIR RIGHT! Know the old saying, "Don't tread on me"? That goes for every American whether they like guns or not. Let's respect them for that. It will go a long for the future of our 2A rights.

 

DaveS

 

Think of it this way. We have to get people used to the fact that we have rights and are supposed to be able to use them. We talk about guns because it's a gun forum, but the 2d applies to other tools and the fact that we have the right to defend our lives.

 

And how is OC'ing shoving in their face? Am I screaming at them "look at my gun!!!" I feel like there is a group of people on this board that think any OC'ing is like screaming at another person. If that's the case then wearing a t-shirt or having a bumper sticker  with any logos, sayings, etc is screaming your views at someone also. But hey, I wear some shirts because I DO want to make a point, but I am not out protesting about it.

[mav]

I never knew TGO had so many Starbucks patrons.  This might rile some feathers, but my view is that if you don't frequent Starbucks then this really shouldn't be an issue for you.  In my case, I have never been to a Starbucks, and I seriously doubt I will ever go to one.  Therefore, whatever policy they choose really doesn't affect me.

[DaveS]

Enjoy your 2A rights while you can. People shoving those rights down the throats of those who don't want it (take voldemort) is what is going to destroy our rights to arms. It won't be the government, it will be us gun owners. I think you can take that to the bank!

 

DaveS

[macville]

Enjoy your 2A rights while you can. People shoving those rights down the throats of those who don't want it (take voldemort) is what is going to destroy our rights to arms. It won't be the government, it will be us gun owners. I think you can take that to the bank!

 

DaveS

 

Yet, every other group that's out there shoving their "rights" agenda down our throat is winning right now. How? Because they've made their agenda "normal." Why do you think it's any different for us? We allowed a bunch of firearms stuff to become un-common and that's why we've suffered over the last 100 years. But keeping it hushed up and to ourselves never has worked for any other group and it's not working for us.

[mikegideon]

Well done...

 

http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/

[DaveS]

Think of it this way. We have to get people used to the fact that we have rights and are supposed to be able to use them.

Aren't non gun owners? What are they supposed to do? Conceal your weapon and everything will be just fine. What did you do to "get people used to guns" when TN was a conceal carry state? I actually love my 2A rights and will do whatever it takes to preserve that right. If it means that the people across the room have now idea I'm carrying or I'm not scaring the crap of their kids by the site of a gun, then I've taken that little step to help preserve those rights.

 

There are way too many people out there (some right here) that I think carry for all the wrong reasons. Carry to defend yourself and family. Don't worry about getting people "used to guns", It'll never happen, but losing your rights will!

 

DaveS

[G27]

I never knew TGO had so many Starbucks patrons.  This might rile some feathers, but my view is that if you don't frequent Starbucks then this really shouldn't be an issue for you.  In my case, I have never been to a Starbucks, and I seriously doubt I will ever go to one.  Therefore, whatever policy they choose really doesn't affect me.

As some one who doesn't visit Starbucks with anything resembling regularity, I say this whole issue is still something we can learn from - a company made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that they simply wanted to sell coffee whilst respecting people's rights, and immediately the rabid 2A folks decided they should drag Starbucks into the political fray. Starbucks dealt with it for about a year then decided they would make the most neutral move they could to try to emphasize that they ONLY WANT TO SELL COFFEE to the hard-headed douche bags that think every possible avenue to promote their agenda is acceptable unless / until it's banned and here we are.

So yah, though I don't buy their coffee, it's a learning experience for me - I'll try even harder not to be an idiot when someone tells me they don't want to be involved in my cause, regardless of how strongly I feel about it.

The OC idiots that continued to push this are at fault here. It needs to be repeated over and over; just because you can doesn't mean you should. SB made it clear they didn't want to be involved in this and the OC fanbois pushed them to make a decision.

 

So yah, I don't drink their products, but I totally agree with them. I'm shocked, in fact, that they aren't legally posting is states that allow it.

[K191145]

I've never supported starbucks. Why should I pay $8 for a burnt cup of crappy coffee. I'll just make my own since noone cares if I open carry a pistol, or even a long gun in my kitchen. Matter of fact, I could sing remixed selections from the sound of music while open carrying an AR-15 in condition one and dressed in drag while making my coffee and nobody would give a ####. And I can buy a can of ground coffee for less than starbucks cheapest cup.

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

 

Damn straight, I'll take my dripolated cup of black Maxwell House anyday over those high dollar cups of coffee. If I want a cup of Starbucks i'll just let the last inch of MH cook for 2 more hours on the burner.

Edited September 18, 2013 by K191145

[G27]

And for the fanbois - how have your carry rights been restricted in the last few years? Despite Obama's general push for more GC laws, we have more freedom now than we've had in DECADES, and it's not from pissing people off and scaring folks who aren't accustomed to firearms...

 

SMH...

[DaveS]

Yet, every other group that's out there shoving their "rights" agenda down our throat is winning right now. How? Because they've made their agenda "normal." Why do you think it's any different for us? We allowed a bunch of firearms stuff to become un-common and that's why we've suffered over the last 100 years. But keeping it hushed up and to ourselves never has worked for any other group and it's not working for us.

Columbine, Fort Hood, Fort Campbell, Aurora Colorado, Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, DC Navy Yard.....convince these people. Take your fight to them. Shall I name some more? In this day and time, you sir (as well as me), would serve well to keep a low profile with our weapons. They are not very popular with the general public at the moment. We're not winning, nor will we ever win. Every time we as gun owners take a step in the right direction, some yoyo comes along and destroys everything we all worked so hard to achieve. What's so hard that we can't understand this?

 

DaveS

[mav]

Well done...

 

http://practicaltacticalpodcast.com/starbucks/

 

Ya know, I guess I am guilty of trying to straddle the fence on issues like these.  I always tried to sympathize with the viewpoint of the gun-rights activist.  I have never bad-mouthed that Kwik fellow, and I didn't say anything negative about the guys down in TX who recently open-carried at the Starbucks.  After reading the article and several comments in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong.  I should have been criticizing those who have been stirring up controversy.

 

After viewing those pictures, I can honestly see how everyday common folk would be concerned or frightened.  Walking into a Starbucks with a pump shotgun, like the guy in the picture is total jackassery.  I cannot, for the life of me, understand what purpose that serves outside of some sort of **** measuring contest.  To be honest with you, if I was in Starbucks, which will never happen, and I saw a person walk in with a shotgun like that, I would immediately switch to open carry only because I would be worried about quick access to my gun in case it was someone I had to shoot.

Edited September 18, 2013 by mav

[DaveS]

Ya know, I guess I am guilty of trying to straddle the fence on issues like these.  I always tried to sympathize with the viewpoint of the gun-rights activist.  I have never bad-mouthed that Kwik fellow, and I didn't say anything negative about the guys down in TX who recently open-carried at the Starbucks.  After reading the article and several comments in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong.  I should have been criticizing those who have been stirring up controversy.

 

After viewing those pictures, I can honestly see how everyday common folk would be concerned or frightened.  Walking into a Starbucks with a pump shotgun, like the guy in the picture is total jackassery.  I cannot, for the life of me, understand what purpose that serves outside of some sort of **** measuring contest.  To be honest with you, if I was in Starbucks, which will never happen, and I saw a person walk in with a shotgun like that, I would immediately switch to open carry only because I would be worried about quick access to my gun in case it was someone I had to shoot.

I think it's just a matter of time when some good meaning person get's scared sh****** and draws and shoots someone like that because they thought they were going to get robbed and/shot. That'll end their little dance!

 

DaveS

[Sam1]

I'm saying that the Constitution is what allows us our liberties and freedoms, and if we allow restrictions on our Constitutional rights, then before long our rights will be totally eroded. Everyone and every business entity has a stake in preserving every Constitutional right we enjoy. Currently, law allows them to restrict gun carry in their business if they choose to do so, but their restrictions on my rights has consequences for them short term, and long term if the liberals continue trampling the Constitution. If they cave in to the liberals, they lose, and we as a nation lose. Simply put, if we allow any of Constitutional rights to be eroded, then everyone becomes a little closer to being enslaved.

 

The second amendment doesn't apply to a business, just like the first amendment doesn't apply here on the forum.  If the mods decide to delete something, don't waste your breath on arguing how it violates your constitutional rights because they don't really exist here; just as they don't exist inside of Starbucks.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Their double wall stainless travel cups are worth every penny.  I don't know if they put nuclear waste in between the layers or what, but I can make coffee at 0630 and it might be cool enough not to burn my tongue by 0900 or so.

I like mine better. It says "Rearden Steel" on the side. Just not big enough. :D

 

I stopped by there, on the way home. No sign or anything on the door. I really think we may be beating this horse into glue,

prematurely.

 

And I didn't see any hippies, this time, either. What a shock!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Ya know, I guess I am guilty of trying to straddle the fence on issues like these.  I always tried to sympathize with the viewpoint of the gun-rights activist.  I have never bad-mouthed that Kwik fellow, and I didn't say anything negative about the guys down in TX who recently open-carried at the Starbucks.  After reading the article and several comments in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong.  I should have been criticizing those who have been stirring up controversy.

 

After viewing those pictures, I can honestly see how everyday common folk would be concerned or frightened.  Walking into a Starbucks with a pump shotgun, like the guy in the picture is total jackassery.  I cannot, for the life of me, understand what purpose that serves outside of some sort of **** measuring contest.  To be honest with you, if I was in Starbucks, which will never happen, and I saw a person walk in with a shotgun like that, I would immediately switch to open carry only because I would be worried about quick access to my gun in case it was someone I had to shoot.

When someone carries a pump shotgun or rifle in a business, he is asking for some kind of trouble, unless it is a gunsmith

or gun shop. A civil society doesn't need the constant "in your face" like some of these clowns try.

 

Wearing a tee shirt would be better. Concealing your weapon doesn't cause anyone any grief, unless your belt is too tight.

[mikegideon]

Ya know, I guess I am guilty of trying to straddle the fence on issues like these.  I always tried to sympathize with the viewpoint of the gun-rights activist.  I have never bad-mouthed that Kwik fellow, and I didn't say anything negative about the guys down in TX who recently open-carried at the Starbucks.  After reading the article and several comments in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong.  I should have been criticizing those who have been stirring up controversy.

 

After viewing those pictures, I can honestly see how everyday common folk would be concerned or frightened.  Walking into a Starbucks with a pump shotgun, like the guy in the picture is total jackassery.  I cannot, for the life of me, understand what purpose that serves outside of some sort of **** measuring contest.  To be honest with you, if I was in Starbucks, which will never happen, and I saw a person walk in with a shotgun like that, I would immediately switch to open carry only because I would be worried about quick access to my gun in case it was someone I had to shoot.

 

I got this link off Facebook. One of the guys that agreed with it, and shared it, was Travis Haley. Oh... and ChuckyT, who I may have actually stolen it from.

Edited September 18, 2013 by mikegideon

[macville]

Aren't non gun owners? What are they supposed to do? Conceal your weapon and everything will be just fine. What did you do to "get people used to guns" when TN was a conceal carry state? I actually love my 2A rights and will do whatever it takes to preserve that right. If it means that the people across the room have now idea I'm carrying or I'm not scaring the crap of their kids by the site of a gun, then I've taken that little step to help preserve those rights.

 

There are way too many people out there (some right here) that I think carry for all the wrong reasons. Carry to defend yourself and family. Don't worry about getting people "used to guns", It'll never happen, but losing your rights will!

 

 Columbine, Fort Hood, Fort Campbell, Aurora Colorado, Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, DC Navy Yard.....convince these people. Take your fight to them. Shall I name some more? In this day and time, you sir (as well as me), would serve well to keep a low profile with our weapons. They are not very popular with the general public at the moment. We're not winning, nor will we ever win. Every time we as gun owners take a step in the right direction, some yoyo comes along and destroys everything we all worked so hard to achieve. What's so hard that we can't understand this?

 

When was TN ever a conceal only state? My understanding was that when the permits came into issue, they started out as a carry permit, not a CC permit.

And how much have you OC'ed since getting your permit? I have a decent amount getting my permit 5 years ago (in west knox, state and national parks), but the looks I have gotten when I do OC have 95% of the time been good. I have gotten maybe two odd looks and plenty of questions that were positive. And kids don't really get scared by them. I've heard probably 5 kids when they saw my gun say "cool!" You are living in this fictional world that if you don't own a gun or not used to them, you hate guns. Most people I run into are indifferent to open towards guns (more than I would have ever thought.) The battle is not about getting these people to carry, but to understand that those who do chose to arm themselves are not evil or crazy. It is a winnable battle, but it's not if you tell yourself it's not. We are winning the legal battle in many ways, but it's now time to focus on the heart battle.

 

Because of those crimes, this is the very time we have to fight and do damage control. If you sit back and try to keep quiet, you are doing more harm than good. The media in this country doesn't let these things blow over. The Knoxville News Sentential was still doing pieces on Newton this summer and not pieces stirred on by other shootings. They would take the tinniest thing that came out about the shooting and make an entire piece from it. They want to keep it in the news because that's how these people fight. Come into modern times and learn how these people fight. We can take these incidents as a good time to step up and say, "hey, mass shootings aren't that common, they are just hyped up in the media and AR-15 are very common guns and have many useful purposes." I know you want to play nice, but the other side doesn't play nice as you can see how they hype with great joy the death of innocent people.