Starbucks caves

[Lumber_Jack]

I understand what the guy is saying, but he never offers an answer to how we change minds. Because if it's what we've been doing, it's not working because changing laws does not change minds. Acceptance happens through being around, not just because someone says it's the law. Otherwise OC would be accepted no problem since it's legal. This is what the gun community seems to not understand.

If you think Open Carrying a gun "educates" anyone about anything, you live on a different planet than I.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Actions have consequences. Some of the gun community has forced issues and I think they only wish to sell coffee.

I get a chuckle when I go inside and see all the tranquility and hippiness. It brings back memories. :D

 

We will only see if they choose to post. That vote hasn't occurred, yet.

[tnguy]

This seems like just a shot across the bows of the activists. Starbucks *could* have got a lot more serious about things if they really wanted to exclude guns from their stores. It would be nothing for them to have included a bunch of "no gun" signs along with a delivery. I think they're just saying "calm down y'all".

[DaveS]

If you think Open Carrying a gun "educates" anyone about anything, you live on a different planet than I.

Well put Sir! I think it has the opposite effect.

 

DaveS

[Garufa]

I'm not surprised by Starbuck's announcement but am surprised they have not banned guns from their premises altogether.  It was only a matter of time after all this "Starbuck's Appreciation" crap started before they would be forced to choose between a few patrons who insist that their "rights" are paramount above all and the majority of their customers that wet their panties when they see a gun.

 

If putting Starbuck's in the middle of an idealogical debate between gun-owners and gun-haters continues they WILL post and ban.

[Guest ThePunisher]

As long as states, businesses, work places, schools continue with the mentality to allow gun free zones, thinking that people will be safe in these gun free zones, then there are going to be more incidents like we've seen happen this week at the Naval base, Ft. Hood, Sandy Hook, Columbine school, Aurora Colrado theater, and places in your community that you read about almost daily.

IMHO, Starbucks didn't need to write that letter to create a doubt of support for gun carry. If Starbucks and other businesses can't openly support all the constitutional rights of people, how long is it going to be when the commies trample their constitutional right to operate their business with government restrictions that eventually put them out of business. Consttutional rights apply to everyone in America, and we can't cherry pick the ones we like and don't like. If we don't have the 2nd Amendment, then certainly we won't have the 1st A or any other before too long. Everyone and every business entity has a stake in supporting liberties and freedoms enumerated in the Constitution.

It wasn't that long ago when students took their rifles to school, and people never thought anything about it. The anti-gunners are the ones that started putting doubt about safety in people's minds, and they continue to win the debate on gun control b/c too many people don't care anymore, or many just lost their balls and have become sheeple. 2nd A supporters are losing the gun control battle b/c they don't want to offend any sheeple, but the gun control activist don't mind offending the 2nd A people with their vitriol about guns are evil, and they are killing our children. Guns don't kill people, evil people kill people. We gun owners continue to lose the gun control issue b/c we don't want to OFFEND anyone, and we are CONTENT to have restrictions on our gun freedoms instead of fully enjoying our SUPPOSEDLY uninfringed liberty. Edited September 18, 2013 by ThePunisher

[Erik88]

If you think Open Carrying a gun "educates" anyone about anything, you live on a different planet than I.

 

Neal, have you spent any time on the OC forum or subfoums of other websites? Teere are hunders if not thousands of examples where people had a chance to educate others about open carry laws while doing so. It's actually very common.

 

Most people don't even know the driving laws in their state let alone gun laws. :rofl:

[bersaguy]

even though I realize in some states such as Tennessee you have the option to carry either concealed or open. I never carry open but that is my decision. I don't agree with open carry but will defend with my life your right to do it because it is legal according to our state laws and the Constitution. It goes right along with the 1st Amendment. I may not like what your saying and it may make my blood boil such as flag burning but I will fight to my death your right to say it or do it because i believe in our Constitution that gives you that right............jmho

[Erik88]

In what way are you unwelcome?  They are not and will not be posted no-guns.  They will not say a word to you if you have one, will not ask you to leave etc.   It sounds neutral to me.

 

 

How is this so difficult to understand? I may be welcome but my firearm isn't. Since we're a package deal it makes perfect sense to me.

 

 

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it though.

 

 

...We are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

 

[TMF]

Damn TMF, what kind of coffee did you have this morning? I don't always agree with some of the stuff you post, but I think you have been pretty much spot on in this thread.

Funny you should ask. I've actually been hopped up on a combination of whatever coffee Australians drink and espresso. I'm traveling at the moment and I have unlimited access to an espresso machine. If I could just make it Irish this thread might get interesting.

[RobertNashville]

Neal, have you spent any time on the OC forum or subfoums of other websites? Teere are hunders if not thousands of examples where people had a chance to educate others about open carry laws while doing so. It's actually very common.

 

Most people don't even know the driving laws in their state let alone gun laws. :rofl:

I'm sure it's very common to find such success stories on an OPEN CARRY forum...if you go to a gun grabber forum you'll find lot's of their success stories too! ROTFLMAO

Edited September 18, 2013 by RobertNashville

[DaveS]

What Robert said...

 

DaveS

[TMF]

Seems pretty clear to me that they are taking a side. I'm not longer welcome in their store. How could that be any more clear?

I understand the point you are trying to make but the bottom line is that they went from honoring state laws to now saying guns are no longer welcome.

The anti-gun crowd got their wish.

Starbucks reasoning for this decision doesn't matter, the point has been made.

If I was in Tennessee I would prove a point right now. I would strap on my biggest, bulkiest gun in a Serpa holster, waltz on down to to Starbucks and grab a cup of their horribly overpriced coffee. They won't say a thing to me. Know why? Because this ain't about carrying. The only thing they've made clear is that they don't want activists using their place as a soapbox. They don't care if you carry. You should be able to extrapolate that from their past statements which have led up to the current position. The only reason I think you and others don't get that is because you don't want to. You need an enemy to point the finger at to say "that's the bad guy." Well take a good look, cause that's the best lookin' bad guy you're ever gonna see... the mermaid chick with the boobs. Wait, what the hell are we talking about?

[Guest TresOsos]

Anybody that carries a long gun in public needs a big black stick upside their head. Too bad the cops are no longer allowed to provide that public service.

 

Sorry I disagree, in my perfect world you could open carry a side arm and a long gun if you wanted too.

Just because we have not excersisred our right to do so vigourosly in the past, does not mean it's wrong.

It is also no reason for a whack upside the head with a black stick by Johnny Law, if it is a legal activity.

Just because it makes bedwetting sheeple nervous does not mean it should be open season by LEO's on Law Abidding

Citizens, even if you personally don't like it.

Edited September 18, 2013 by TresOsos

[Jonnin]

An unofficial request to appease their left leaning customers that means nothing at all.   Until they post a gunbuster sign or ask you to leave, you are as welcome as you ever were.

 

Try thinking of it this way.... ever been somewhere that asked you to not have or turn off your phone, or not have a camera?  Its exactly like that --- they won't throw you out for the camera, unless you are bothering everyone.  You can't be arrested for having it there.  If you are bothering a bunch of other customers, they have a policy to ask you to cease and desist.  The policy is just there to appease the customers that thought the company was taking a stance (they are not) and to give them an out if they need to ask a rowdy group to leave the store, etc.

 

All this "policy" does is appease the customers that the gun owning community drove off with their excitement.  And I can't find any fault with them trying to earn money by trying to undo the damage to their customer base.

 

Its a sad but true fact that wearing a gun openly bothers some people.   It causes sheep to leave the area.  But the sheep also have money to spend and there are more of them than us.  It is not in our interest to run the sheep out of a friendly business, making said business become unfriendly. 

[Chucktshoes]

If I was in Tennessee I would prove a point right now. I would strap on my biggest, bulkiest gun in a Serpa holster, waltz on down to to Starbucks and grab a cup of their horribly overpriced coffee. They won't say a thing to me. Know why? Because this ain't about carrying. The only thing they've made clear is that they don't want activists using their place as a soapbox. They don't care if you carry. You should be able to extrapolate that from their past statements which have led up to the current position. The only reason I think you and others don't get that is because you don't want to. You need an enemy to point the finger at to say "that's the bad guy." Well take a good look, cause that's the best lookin' bad guy you're ever gonna see... the mermaid chick with the boobs. Wait, what the hell are we talking about?

Boobies?

[G27]

I can't stand when someone takes a side and then states they aren't taking sides.  It is obvious what Starbucks intent here is.

 

That said if I want one of their fruity jacked up with caffeine drinks then I will go get one.  Until they properly post I will still feel welcome to do so.

Starbucks has repeatedly tried to NOT take sides here, but the open-carrying 'victims' wouldn't listen, so here we are.

 

If I operated a retail business where one side of a political group couldn't take the VERY CLEAR HINTS that I wanted no part in their political agenda, I'd likely react similarly, if not more forcefully. Even if it involved firearms.

 

The reality is this is on the back of the open-carry douche bags who wouldn't listen when Starbucks made it clear - THEY ONLY WANT TO SELL COFFEE. So be pissed off if you wish, but make sure you're pissed at the people who deserve it. And that's not Starbucks.

For the record, I'm a coffee snob who cannot recall the last time I bought anything from Starbucks, but I don't blame them one bit for this reaction. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you're not being a dickweed by doing it...

Edited September 18, 2013 by crimsonaudio

[TMF]

Sorry I disagree, in my perfect world you could open carry a side arm and a long gun if you wanted too.
Just because we have not excersisred our right to do so vigourosly in the past, does not mean it's wrong.
It is also no reason for a whack upside the head with a black stick by Johnny Law, if it is a legal activity.
Just because it makes bedwetting sheeple nervous does not mean it should be open season by LEO's on Law Abidding
Citizens, even if you personally don't like it.

In a perfect world I would be able to nail two Asian prostitutes while taking a hit off a three foot tall bong full of the icky sticky without having to fly all the way to Amsterdam. But instead, here I am learning Dutch....

[mav]

You could look at it this way.  If the activist crowd becomes so upset with Starbucks then they are "free" to open their own coffee shop where like-minded individuals can lounge around in their tactical gear and openly display their largest rifles to the community at large.  I would bet that they would have very few customers outside of that activist base, and they would be bankrupt within 3 months. 

[Lumber_Jack]

In a perfect world I would be able to nail two Asian prostitutes while taking a hit off a three foot tall bong full of the icky sticky without having to fly all the way to Amsterdam. But instead, here I am learning Dutch....

I thought it was Sticky Icky.... :shrug: Edited September 18, 2013 by Lumber_Jack

[Erik88]

I'm sure it's very common to find such success stories on an OPEN CARRY forum...if you go to a gun grabber forum you'll find lot's of their success stories too! ROTFLMAO

 

Nice mature response Robert. You've added a lot of value to the topic.

 

I'm sure every post on Open Carry.org is made up by the members there. It's all a giant conspiracy to promote the cause. That's essentially what you're saying.

[Guest TresOsos]

In a perfect world I would be able to nail two Asian prostitutes while taking a hit off a three foot tall bong full of the icky sticky without having to fly all the way to Amsterdam. But instead, here I am learning Dutch....

 

I would think you should be learning Thai or whatever people in Colorado speak.

Edited September 18, 2013 by TresOsos

[Lumber_Jack]

Nice mature response Robert. You've added a lot of value to the topic.

I'm sure every post on Open Carry.org is made up by the members there. It's all a giant conspiracy to promote the cause. That's essentially what you're saying.

I think what he meant was that, of course your gonna read those stories on an open carry forum. Because every time someone gets to tell someone about Open Carry they write a 10page thread about it. But the number of "sharing" instances versus number of "panty wetting" Instances is not a balanced scale, not even close.

[RobertNashville]

Starbucks has repeatedly tried to NOT take sides here, but the open-carrying 'victims' wouldn't listen, so here we are.

 

If I operated a retail business where one side of a political group couldn't take the VERY CLEAR HINTS that I wanted no part in their political agenda, I'd likely react similarly, if not more forcefully. Even if it involved firearms.

 

The reality is this is on the back of the open-carry douche bags who wouldn't listen when Starbucks made it clear - THEY ONLY WANT TO SELL COFFEE. So be pissed off if you wish, but make sure you're pissed at the people who deserve it. And that's not Starbucks.

For the record, I'm a coffee snob who cannot recall the last time I bought anything from Starbucks, but I don't blame them one bit for this reaction. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you're not being a dickweed by doing it...

Could not have said it better. :)

[MacGyver]

You can actually really tell just how much Starbucks just wants to sell a cup of coffee by their response. They could have very easily gone and posted their stores. Howard Schultz and his management team in all reality probably backed away from the advice they received from their counsel to post their stores.

Why? They just want to sell a cup of coffee.

That said, I'd bet anyone their favorite Starbucks fruity drink that we don't make it until Christmas without them being posted. The "I'm going to jam my 2nd Amendment rights down your damn throat" folks are going to see to that.

If I win, I guess we'll have to get that drink at the drive thru.