Starbucks caves

[mikegideon]

Now now Mike...I've tried not to judge you..  :cool:

 

[Erik88]

LMAO. I was wondering when you were going to respond Mike. You were gone so long I should have known you would find something good.

 

That actually has me laughing out loud. Which I needed.

[Guest TresOsos]

When was TN ever a conceal only state? My understanding was that when the permits came into issue, they started out as a carry permit, not a CC permit.

 

 

I think the original Concealed Carry Law went into effect in July of 1994, before that TN was a no carry state even though it was only a misdomeanor and a $62.50 fine and loss of weapon if you got caught. When the law was passed it was Concealed Carry only and had several stipulations, one you had to have a Personal Liability insurance policy and you and to qualify and have a permit for each weapon you carried. Issuance and training was handled by the County Sherriffs Departments. When they changed the law and turned training over to private individuals and admin over to the DPS they reclassified it as a Handgun Carry Permit in the fashion we have today. One of the primary reasons they changed the law to decriminalise open carry was because of issues with printing and CC weapons being flashed. Some people were even arrested and charged for there weapon being accidentally seen. The change in the law was never really to allow and promote open carry, it was to protect Licensed carriers from prosecution for an accidentally displayed weapon or one that was spotted due to printing.  But once the horse was out of the barn and over the fence.

Edited September 19, 2013 by TresOsos

[mikegideon]

LMAO. I was wondering when you were going to respond Mike. You were gone so long I should have known you would find something good.

 

That actually has me laughing out loud. Which I needed.

 

Had to figure out the knobs in Photoshop. It's been a long time since I did a head transplant

[MacGyver]

The thing about Starbuck's letter, and their public posting of it, is that it is literally a shot across gun owners' bows. 

 

They're giving us another chance - when they were likely advised to just post - because they just want to sell you a cup of coffee and a scone.  With their letter, they're broadcasting that they're willing to post - but would rather not force the issue.  Erik is right.  All open carriers are not the problem.  But a few of them are in a major way.

 

And there's the rub.  There's no winning hearts and minds here.  A gun is a tool used to do one thing - kill.  Maybe it's to protect your family.  Great.  Maybe it's to provide food for you table.  Awesome.  Maybe it's to keep the government off of your front porch.  Okay.  But, when a non-gun person looks at a person they don't know carrying a gun openly, they see a person who wants to kill somebody and today might be the day.  You might have some conversations with folks.  But regardless of whether or not the conversations end well, they all started out of fear - the fear that you might do something crazy with that gun.  You're not going to win.  Ever.

 

Our "rights" as gun owners have expanded more in the last 20 years than they have in the last century and a half.  You have more ability to carry today than any of us have had in our lifetimes.  And, those abilities are still expanding.  Ask anyone in Illinois 10 years ago if they'd ever be able to carry a gun to protect their families.  Despite that, however, individual people can screw that up.

 

The thing about strapping on a weapon, is that the moment you choose to do so, you either become an asset to society or a liability.  And, your actions speak for all of us collectively.  You do something stupid with that gun - and you paint us all in a poor light.  There's no place in civil society for a person to walk into Starbucks with a shotgun.  Your individual actions have just made it harder for all of us.  That's why so many of us get upset about this.  It's not about ceding our rights.  It's about selfish people doing stupid things that cost us all.

[G27]

The thing about Starbuck's letter, and their public posting of it, is that it is literally a shot across gun owners' bows.

(snipped for brevity)

Perfectly stated, thank you.

[tnguy]

Except for the "literally" part ;)

[MacGyver]

Except for the "literally" part ;)

That's exactly how I take the letter - "you guys let up or you're going to find yourselves unwelcome here."

 

It's a one time opportunity for these guys to change their course without more suffering more severe consequences of having these stores officially post.

[Guest TresOsos]

Let them post there are other places to buy coffee.

[Guest ThePunisher]

If you regulate a business by mandating they abide by all stipulations of the constitution and do not allow them the freedoms to exist as their own entity, you have effectively implemented a socialist environment.

The constitution was not designed to regulate business, it was designed to regulate the government.

I never said one word about mandating anything. Business owners have a brain and should understand the Constitution if they were not brainwashed by liberal educational institutions. Business owners currently have the freedom to support or not support the 2nd A and all of the Constitutional rights if they are not in a commie state. If they don't support my Constitutional rights, then I will not support their business. A business that doesn't believe fully in all the Constitutional rights and lend support for them, will one day realize they've lost their Constitutional rights to be a business owner when the government slowly erodes, infringes and tramples on their Constitutional rights. There is ample evidence of government intrusion on people owning and operating their business, and making it as difficult as possible to remain in business.

Now if they want to create a gun free zone where criminals can rob their business without fear of getting shot, then go ahead and post the gun buster sign. Edited September 19, 2013 by ThePunisher

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Let them post there are other places to buy coffee.

Sorry, that's just wrong. Say that once. Say that the second time. Just give up in the end.

[tnguy]

That's exactly how I take the letter - "you guys let up or you're going to find yourselves unwelcome here."

 

It's a one time opportunity for these guys to change their course without more suffering more severe consequences of having these stores officially post.

 

Just ragging on you for your use of the word "literally". Unless the activists are actually in a boat and Starbucks are firing cannons, it's not literal :)

Edited September 19, 2013 by tnguy

[bersaguy]

In all reality I don't think Starbucks really wants to post a no gun signs. They just had an interview with one of the top dogs of Starbucks on Greta show on Fox and the guy said that they don't want people that carry guns to stop coming to their stores and if you wear a gun we want you to still come in and buy our products. I think they don't really want to do this and I don't understand why they have even brought it up while they are being so undecided about it. In all reality in may have been something they were or are considering and some stupid employee let it leak out. You all know it;s almost impossible to keep anything a secret in Corporate America these days.........jmho

[Guest TresOsos]

Sorry, that's just wrong. Say that once. Say that the second time. Just give up in the end.

Getting or not getting a expensive over priced cup of bad coffee is not a life or death matter.

The possibility of being without my weapon could be. They don't want me to be there with my weapon

I can buy coffee elsewhere. It's not giving up, it's choosing where to spend my money at what businesses

I patronize.

[Guest TresOsos]

In all reality I don't think Starbucks really wants to post a no gun signs. They just had an interview with one of the top dogs of Starbucks on Greta show on Fox and the guy said that they don't want people that carry guns to stop coming to their stores and if you wear a gun we want you to still come in and buy our products. I think they don't really want to do this and I don't understand why they have even brought it up while they are being so undecided about it. In all reality in may have been something they were or are considering and some stupid employee let it leak out. You all know it;s almost impossible to keep anything a secret in Corporate America these days.........jmho

Could be they are beginning to see a there are consequences to this policy.

[Guest TresOsos]

The thing about Starbuck's letter, and their public posting of it, is that it is literally a shot across gun owners' bows. 

 

 

 

I may not be the brightest bulb....but I can recognise a hint......and take it.

[Oh Shoot]

Had to figure out the knobs in Photoshop. It's been a long time since I did a head transplant

 

Quite good job, especially for a quickie.

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

It's a one time opportunity for these guys to change their course without more suffering more severe consequences of having these stores officially post.

 

Won't matter in most all the states as much as it will here if they do.

 

- OS

[TMF]

So that's in then? Open carry and nothing else caused this? I agree a select group of D bags made things much much worse by bringing AR's and shotguns into the store but there were other considerations as well. That I'm sure of.

Ahhhhhh! For the millionth time, this isn't about OC; it's about OC ACTIVISM. This is about OCers and guys slinging rifles and shotguns for political activity on Starbucks' property. People have been OCing into Starbucks for years without issue, and Starbucks has REPEATEDLY over the years said they will support whatever the laws of the state say. Only when guntards interpreted that to mean Starbucks was the place to make a political statement did their language change. They warned about this before. Stupid people didnt listen. Now they have this.

[mikegideon]

Quite good job, especially for a quickie.

 

- OS

 

Thanks. I put Jerry Falwell's head on Michael Powell's body in a picture of the FCC once. It was perfect, but took a lot of time.

[div]

This... Has gotten ridiculous.

OK.

Here it is, this isn't in the bill of rights but it ought to be. The right to believe. Everyone has the right to believe anything they freaking want too. Period. End of story. What you do NOT have the right to is to force others to follow YOUR beliefs.
If you believe you have the right to carry an AR into a coffee shop, you are more than welcome to have that belief. If the owner of that coffee shop believes they have the right to run their business without the intrusion of firearms or firearm politics then guess what? They have that right too. And it is THEIR place of business. You don't want people telling you what you can and cannot do in your home so respect their property in return.
Here is what it boils down to, and I really wish everyone would just take a deep breath on this and CTFD. If you want your beliefs to be taken seriously then you have to take other people's beliefs just as seriously. If they ask you, and honestly this had to be the most polite and honest request I have EVER seen from a corporate entity, to not make their stores into a political soapbox, then you should respect that request. Just like you expect them to respect your right to defend yourself - which they are doing. I carry and I open carried in a Starbucks on the day of this OC demonstration. Didn't know it was going on at the time but... oh well... I didn't call attention to myself nor did I try to hide that I was carrying. No one said anything and no one gave me a second glace.

There is a lot more to this right to belief. I'm not sure this is the forum, or the thread to get into it further. But it still stands. Respect the belief of others or have your own beliefs trampled in turn.

I'm having another drink now.

[RobertNashville]

..

...Respect the belief of others or have your own beliefs trampled in turn...

Very true.

 

I'm trying to figure out why the hell we have a (at thit point) 12 pages of posts about a coffee house chain that I'd bet 90% of the members of TGO have never even utilized. :shrug:

It's Starbuck's business...they have NO obligation to cater to anyone's desire to carry arms but they aren't even saying that you can't; all they are asking is to not be a focal point for the issue...frankly, if I owned a coffee house and the kind of stuff that's gone on in some Starbucks were going on in my shop I'd tell the gun community to leave their guns in their vehicels too and I probably wouldn't be as nice about as Starbucks has been.

[TMF]

In all reality I don't think Starbucks really wants to post a no gun signs. They just had an interview with one of the top dogs of Starbucks on Greta show on Fox and the guy said that they don't want people that carry guns to stop coming to their stores and if you wear a gun we want you to still come in and buy our products. I think they don't really want to do this and I don't understand why they have even brought it up while they are being so undecided about it. In all reality in may have been something they were or are considering and some stupid employee let it leak out. You all know it;s almost impossible to keep anything a secret in Corporate America these days.........jmho

 

I'm am literally laughing at this item in bold.  I mean, seriously.  Not only have they made it clear, but we have several pages of thread along with several companion articles that negate your item in bold.  They are undecided about it because they don't want to be in a position to make a decision.... BECAUSE THEY MAKE FRIGGIN COFFEE!!!  They just want to sell coffee in a non-politicized environment.  That means they have no problem with you or anyone else carrying a firearm (pistol, obviously).  They just don't want to be involved with activism in any way; for or aginst.  They've taken this same attitude towards the anti-gun nuts as well.  Instead of some gun owners interpreting that for what it is and being the more mature folks, thus making the antis look crazier, we had to one-up their crazy by carrying AKs into Starbucks on some kinda made up Starbucks holiday to celebrate a cause they have expressed (for years) they want nothing to do with.... BECAUSE THEY MAKE FRIGGIN COFFEE!!!

[TGO David]

Let them post there are other places to buy coffee.

 

The problem I have with this mentality is that you don't speak for me.  My wife and I actually enjoy sitting in Starbucks drinking their coffee.  We like their coffee and we like the atmosphere of their cafes.  We like to sit there, watch people, surf the internet, and we prefer to do it armed -- much the same as we prefer to do anything else armed.  The deal is, we conceal.  Usually in a pants pocket, or under a jacket, but it's hidden and no one has ever been the wiser.

 

Now, because of selfish people who don't understand or refuse to understand that open carry scares people, I have to decide if I am going to continue going to Starbucks, stop going to Starbucks, or just go there and conceal even more discretely and ignore their request.

 

Previously, I didn't have to make that choice!  Now, selfish assholes are making Starbucks make the choice for me.

 

So... Thanks???

[TGO David]

 a coffee house chain that I'd bet 90% of the members of TGO have never even utilized. :shrug:

 

See previous comment.  Stop speaking for me, Robert.  You might be the majority in your own mind but you're not in real practice.