TGO Lowers "what your going to build" "how to build" General discussion thread

[Oh Shoot]

....I have a very good knowledge of what is and isn't legal but I just never thought about whether or not the carbine tube would legally suffice as a pistol so long as there was no spare stock on or around it with no other rifle to call home.

Spare stock doesn't matter among your other stuff at home, any more than any other spare part. If one has a legal use, they all have a legal use. They don't have to match up one to one or anything. Same out and about really, it's just that that would sort of in your face say, "hey check me out".
 
At any rate, a carbine pistol tube is just as legal as any other tube in and of itself.

 

 

I didn't wrap it with camo to disguise or "cripple" it, but only to make it nicer laid up alongside cheek when I shoot it. Much warmer in winter, too. I actually used the lower as part of a "kit" for a while, with 2 rifle uppers and the pistol upper, swapping between the three.

 

 

Mine is probably the most basic pistol you'll see in this thread if it runs 2 years. :)
 

I wanted to build this lower as a pistol first but wasn't wanting to buy a tube just for the sake of taking a pic. So as long as a carbine tube has no stock on or around it I should be able to snap my pic to document it being a pistol first?

Some folks recommend taking a picture of your complete pistol first, with serial number of lower showing, using camera date on pic, or a newspaper or something. Whatever. Burden of proof ain't on me, and one can set camera date to anything you want or get an old newspaper too. I say meh. If you follow the rules, what could prove otherwise?

- OS

Edited October 16, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[vontar]

I can't find a picture/video of the completed item but remember Son of Guns where they put a stock on a .50 Desert Eagle. 

 

Just adding a stock like that would be an example of turning a AR pistol into a SBR.

 

I guess they knew what they were doing since they are class 3 and all.

Edited October 17, 2013 by vontar

[Luke E.]

I can't find a picture/video of the completed item but remember Son of Guns where they put a stock on a .50 Desert Eagle.

Just adding a stock like that would be an example of turning a AR pistol into a SBR.

I guess they knew what they were doing since they are class 3 and all.

Yes, they knew exactly what they were doing. If you go back and watch it again and go to the place where the woman buying it is testing it in the range and gives her stamp of approval, you'll noticed that she tells the woman something like " let's get your paperwork started and you'll have the gun before you know it" or something along those lines.
It must be awesome to be able to build pretty much anything you want and go have fun with it! The Desert Eagle SBR would be at the very bottom of my list, just above a cheap single shot 12ga with a bent barrel but I guess that goes to show that if it's a firearm, there is someone out there that will like it. Edited October 17, 2013 by Luke E.

[JeffL]

So, would building a pistol caliber be a waste of a good billet pair? Any reasons not to do it?

 

Seems a waste to me to build a pistol caliber carbine at all.

[Luke E.]

Seems a waste to me to build a pistol caliber carbine at all.

Whys that?
1- At 20-30yds and even further would you rather be hit with a .224" projectile or a.356 (9mm) or a .45?

2- What about little to no recoil allowing you almost instant follow up opportunities.

3- Much less chance for over penetration in a home defense situation where you may want to hit the sorry SOB that has kicked your door in and is coming after you and your family but not hit your loved one on the other side of that fiberglass insulated, Sheetrock wall.

4- Can be substantially cheaper to shoot, especially if you reload your own ammo and cast your own bullets (3.5-4.5 cents per round 9mm/.45)

5- Can be insanely quiet if you happen to have a suppressor due to the ease of making of buyin subsonic ammo

Is a pistol cal. upper for everyone? Certainly not but it is a far cry from being a waste IMO.

[mikegideon]

Seems a waste to me to build a pistol caliber carbine at all.

 

You mean using a perfectly good rifle to set off 5 grains of Bullseye? I agree.

[mikegideon]

Whys that?
1- At 20-30yds and even further would you rather be hit with a .224" projectile or a.356 (9mm) or a .45?

2- What about little to no recoil allowing you almost instant follow up opportunities.

3- Much less chance for over penetration in a home defense situation where you may want to hit the sorry SOB that has kicked your door in and is coming after you and your family but not hit your loved one on the other side of that fiberglass insulated, Sheetrock wall.

4- Can be substantially cheaper to shoot, especially if you reload your own ammo and cast your own bullets (3.5-4.5 cents per round 9mm/.45)

5- Can be insanely quiet if you happen to have a suppressor due to the ease of making of buyin subsonic ammo

Is a pistol cal. upper for everyone? Certainly not but it is a far cry from being a waste IMO.

 

You don't need all of the heft of an AR-15 to shoot bunny farts. Pistol calibers are weak.

[Lumber_Jack]

You don't need all of the heft of an AR-15 to shoot bunny farts. Pistol calibers are weak.

What about 15.8gr of A#9? Is that enough?

[Luke E.]

What about 15.8gr of A#9? Is that enough?

Lol I'd say so.

[TGO David]

So I'm likely building mine up as a high-end SPR.  It's a special lower/upper combo so I'll keep with that spirit and make it a cut above my normal rifle builds.

[mikegideon]

What about 15.8gr of A#9? Is that enough?

 

What load is that?

[Lumber_Jack]

What load is that?

135gr 10mm :D

If I did a pistol caliber I have decide it will be 10mm

[mikegideon]

135gr 10mm :D

If I did a pistol caliber I have decide it will be 10mm

 

That's not a weak pistol caliber. Still... doesn't it require blowback operation?

[Luke E.]

You don't need all of the heft of an AR-15 to shoot bunny farts. Pistol calibers are weak.

I didn't know we were talking about "needs". If there were only guns that we "need" I'd say we this forum would be pretty boring because all of us sad gun enthusiast would only have a standard hunting model bolt gun and maybe a pistol. We'd run out of things to talk about pretty quickly.
I was merely pointing out that the fun factor of a pistol cal. upper is quite high in my book. Folks run over themselves to shoot AR's chambered in .22lr so if a pistol cal. AR is a waste then how big of a waste is one in .22lr.

[Luke E.]

That's not a weak pistol caliber. Still... doesn't it require blowback operation?

The setup I saw was.

[mikegideon]

I didn't know we were talking about "needs". If there were only guns that we "need" I'd say we this forum would be pretty boring because all of us sad gun enthusiast would only have a standard hunting model bolt gun and maybe a pistol. We'd run out of things to talk about pretty quickly.
I was merely pointing out that the fun factor of a pistol cal. upper is quite high in my book. Folks run over themselves to shoot AR's chambered in .22lr so if a pistol cal. AR is a waste then how big of a waste is one in .22lr.

 

No comment :).

[mikegideon]

The setup I saw was.

 

So, you take one of the coolest ever locked breach designs and turn it into a 10/22 :)

[Lumber_Jack]

That's not a weak pistol caliber. Still... doesn't it require blowback operation?

Ron Williams of RMW Extreme builds custom DI pistol uppers. 9, 40, 10, 45, 7.62x25

[JeffL]

Whys that?
1- At 20-30yds and even further would you rather be hit with a .224" projectile or a.356 (9mm) or a .45?

2- What about little to no recoil allowing you almost instant follow up opportunities.

3- Much less chance for over penetration in a home defense situation where you may want to hit the sorry SOB that has kicked your door in and is coming after you and your family but not hit your loved one on the other side of that fiberglass insulated, Sheetrock wall.

4- Can be substantially cheaper to shoot, especially if you reload your own ammo and cast your own bullets (3.5-4.5 cents per round 9mm/.45)

5- Can be insanely quiet if you happen to have a suppressor due to the ease of making of buyin subsonic ammo

Is a pistol cal. upper for everyone? Certainly not but it is a far cry from being a waste IMO.

 

1. Rather be hit with a 9mm at 1050fps  than .223 at 3000fps.

 

2. The one 9mm AR conversion I shot had more recoil than I would have thought. .223 isn't exactly a hard recoiling round.

 

3. From the tests I've seen, you're less likely to get over penetration with .223 than a pistol round.

 

4. Sure, if you're casting bullets.

 

5. 300 BLK, which you can use cast bullets for.

[mikegideon]

Ron Williams of RMW Extreme builds custom DI pistol uppers. 9, 40, 10, 45, 7.62x25

 

There's this guy in California that makes cars that run on corn :)

[Luke E.]

So, you take one of the coolest ever locked breach designs and turn it into a 10/22 :)

10/22... Most any sub gun... What I'm saying is, I would never build a pistol caliber upper just to throw it on a bench and attempt long range precision with it, but,,, I would be perfectly happy building one to plink and shooting clays with at under 50yds. I won't be turning my TGO receivers into a pistol cal. Because I've been wanting a Grendel for a few years now and I can think of no better receivers to use. I will be building a pistol cal. Upper at some point because of how cheap I could shoot it and the case prep time is far less than a bottleneck rifle case. It will give my nephews something to shoot in about a year when the first one is big enough.

[MacGyver]

There are trade offs to the pistol upper, but they've got a lot going for them, too.  Shooting a rifle caliber inside an enclosed area like a house is a truly deafening experience - especially all the SBRs that people build for their perceived "maneuverability" needs.  Not to mention trying to shoot in the middle of the night, half awake with no ear protection.

 

I love my DDLES lower that takes Glock magazines.  I never run into a twinkie, twinkie, cupcake situation with my magazines.  If it'll fit the pistol inside the house, it'll fit the rifle inside the house.

 

You don't get nearly the energy transfer that you would with a rifle round.  But, we all make choices.  Mine just happen to lean towards suppressed 147gr HSTs with low flash powder.

[mikegideon]

10/22... Most any sub gun... What I'm saying is, I would never build a pistol caliber upper just to throw it on a bench and attempt long range precision with it, but,,, I would be perfectly happy building one to plink and shooting clays with at under 50yds. I won't be turning my TGO receivers into a pistol cal. Because I've been wanting a Grendel for a few years now and I can think of no better receivers to use. I will be building a pistol cal. Upper at some point because of how cheap I could shoot it and the case prep time is far less than a bottleneck rifle case. It will give my nephews something to shoot in about a year when the first one is big enough.

 

OK... I'll give you the ease of reloading. My rifle prep isn't bad, because I HATE case prep. I bit the bullet on some good tools, so that alone won't drive me to a caliber choice either. If I was trimming in 3 stages under human power... hell yes, gimme some 9mm! For me personally, it's so far below the platform's capabilities that it's not something I would do. I don't have any orphaned uppers. They're all complete rifles.

 

Like you, I'm probably headed toward a Grendel. I <hope> the receivers are that good. So much for economy and ease of loading, eh? That will all be done on my Coax press with Lapua brass.

[mikegideon]

There are trade offs to the pistol upper, but they've got a lot going for them, too.  Shooting a rifle caliber inside an enclosed area like a house is a truly deafening experience - especially all the SBRs that people build for their perceived "maneuverability" needs.  Not to mention trying to shoot in the middle of the night, half awake with no ear protection.

 

I love my DDLES lower that takes Glock magazines.  I never run into a twinkie, twinkie, cupcake situation with my magazines.  If it'll fit the pistol inside the house, it'll fit the rifle inside the house.

 

You don't get nearly the energy transfer that you would with a rifle round.  But, we all make choices.  Mine just happen to lean towards suppressed 147gr HSTs with low flash powder.

 

Now, you're getting specialized enough to make it a valid choice. You're not talking a plinker gun. I'm more likely to use an 870. I'm not skeered of having to repaint a wall or two :)

 

EDIT: I will add, though, that one of the main reasons to use an AR for HD is its ability to penetrate soft armor. 

Edited October 18, 2013 by mikegideon

[TMF]

No comment :).

If you don't have a dedicated .22 you don't know what you're missing.