TGO Lowers "what your going to build" "how to build" General discussion thread

[Luke E.]

I want to deer hunt with mine, so I'm thinking 300 blackout. My concern is finding ammo for it. So, I may have to go with something where ammo is more available.

 

DaveS

 

 I second what Lumber Jack said, There is Blackout hunting ammo to be found fairly easily but it's a bit pricey to go out and send 500rds of it into a dirt berm on a Saturday morning

[TMF]

I'm not really concerned about it because I have no use for an AR in pistol form other than it makes it really easy to throw a stock on and have an sbr as soon as paperwork comes in. If I get to thinking about it to much I may be trying to find a local TGO member that wouldn't mind meeting me and letting me snap a few picks with their pistol upper and buffer in place....

The reason I have one is mainly for camping/hiking. If I carry an SBR with ammo (loaded or on my person) I'm committing a crime. If I keep it a pistol I can carry it in my bag locked and loaded and it is legal.

[Guest Razz]

Sinse we're on the topic....

If I want to start paperwork for a SBR, does the receiver need to stay with a dealer while I wait for the stamp?

I know this has been discussed before. My searching skill are bad and I should feel bad.

[reed1285]

Sinse we're on the topic....

If I want to start paperwork for a SBR, does the receiver need to stay with a dealer while I wait for the stamp?

I know this has been discussed before. My searching skill are bad and I should feel bad.

Nope, you just cant have the receiver and short barreled upper together at the same time. Not even in the same house. Im going to get my receiver, send it off to get engraved at orion arms the same time i send off for my stamp. Then when I get my stamp about 6 months later, THEN I can buy the upper to go on it. Unless I want to build it as a pistol till my stamp comes in, which I dont really wanna fool with doing.

Edited September 17, 2013 by reed1285

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, whenever I'm building a new AR I put a pistol barrel on it and a buffer tube with no stock.  Then I go drink a beer, return to my build, remove the barrel, put on a full length and attach a stock.  Yup, each time....

 

Stupid rules are meant to be ignored.  The ATF can suck it on that one.

 

Yup. If you want to get really technical about it, there is no length barrel specified for handgun under federal law, only the "fired with one hand thing", which no AR "pistol" is already.

 

So in that sense, as long as the stock is the last thing that goes on it after the barrel is added,  a "pistol" is built first with any AR config.

 

This is one  of those rules that might come into play if they already wanted to lean on you for something else; and they'd pretty much have to go back to manufacturer/distributor to determine what the original config was.

 

This came about from SCOTUS ruling in the Thompson Contender case in 1992, along with clarification of the "constructive possession" thing too.

 

So it's been settled law for over 20 years. But what many would say is keeping in with its typical bully form though, ATF only published their own grudging official ruling reflecting all that in summer of 2011.

 

- OS

Edited September 17, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[TMF]

Sounds about right. Luckily I only have one AR lower that came from the factory in its configuration. The other 6, going on 7, lowers all came stripped. Funny thing about barrel length too.

I tend to disregard stupid laws unless they carry a hefty penalty with proof. I ran the same stoplight nearly every day for several years merely out of principle.

[Oh Shoot]

Nope, you just cant have the receiver and short barreled upper together at the same time. Not even in the same house. ...

 

Of course you can, as long as you have a lower that was not first built as a rifle and the other parts to make a pistol (which a built AR rifle would provide also). The "constructive possession" thing has been settled law for over 20 years -- basic tenet is simply that a part must have a (legal) "useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm".

 

So as long as you have a way to use the barrel in a legal config, it's okay.

 

Unless I want to build it as a pistol till my stamp comes in, which I dont really wanna fool with doing.

 

I don't get that. You can build your pistol exactly in the config you want your SBR, sans stock, and test and tweak it for reliability/performance beforehand.  And yes, including "rifle" buffer tube.  And still have it engraved before the stamp comes in. You can, of course, also have the stock in your possession too, as long as it also has a legal "useful purpose" on another firearm you have.

 

As far as AR pistols, full auto stuff aside, it always comes down to a stock or vertical forward grip. And even a VFG can be used on a pistol with a legal overall length of 26" or more. Of course one would be an idiot to be out and about with only a pistol and also a stock, or even with a pistol, rifle, and extra stock, that's just baiting the bear, a Kwik sort of thang.

 

But even at home, if all I owned was an AR pistol,  I wouldn't have a stock on my property at all, or a VFG if the thing was under 26".

 

 

- OS

Edited September 17, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[UncleJak]

I'm going for a very basic AR with iron sites. No frills, just a simple masterpiece.
I wish I could have one like this:
I would love to go " pew pew pew" , but too much hassle for me.

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[wewoapsiak]

Noob at the sbr and pistol thing, what do you have to get engraved and why?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4

[Luke E.]

I'm going for a very basic AR with iron sites. No frills, just a simple masterpiece.
I wish I could have one like this:
I would love to go " pew pew pew" , but too much hassle for me.

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

 

 I love the "been drug through the desert" look. I've got a guy around the corner from my office that does most all things coating/finish related with an emphasis on firearms. I've been trying to come op with a way to have him do a feathered camo but add that worn look to it..

[whitewolf001]

I need one for my Lonely ST15 upper sitting at home, sold my Spikes lower a while back to a fella whom needed one on GOC so now back in the market to replace my old one. Not to mention this one will be fregin sweet, lol. I'm gonna use a PSA lpk we've got at the shop.

[Joseg]

Hmm, I'm probably going to go one pistol and one rifle. 300 BLK would be nice, but hard up on .223 to try to chase down another caliber.. 

[gregintenn]

I'm hoping the craziness dies down at some point, and I can find a decent price on a standard 16" or 20" complete upper and A2 stock assy to put on mine.

 

...on second thought, I might just get a 22lr upper.

 

Choices are hard! :panic:

Edited September 17, 2013 by gregintenn

[viscero]

My first AR I bought as a complete rifle and while I still like it there's a few things I would change.  The second AR in our collection(my wife's), I shopped around a picked up a prebuilt upper and lower and mated them together.  Better but still some things I would do differently.  So this one will be just another standard AR in 5.56/.223 but I am going to pick and choose every part and build an AR that I absolutely love.  That's the plan for now at least.  If it changes it would be for something in .458 or maybe 9mm.

[reed1285]

Of course you can, as long as you have a lower that was not first built as a rifle and the other parts to make a pistol (which a built AR rifle would provide also). The "constructive possession" thing has been settled law for over 20 years -- basic tenet is simply that a part must have a (legal) "useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm".

So as long as you have a way to use the barrel in a legal config, it's okay.


I don't get that. You can build your pistol exactly in the config you want your SBR, sans stock, and test and tweak it for reliability/performance beforehand. And yes, including "rifle" buffer tube. And still have it engraved before the stamp comes in. You can, of course, also have the stock in your possession too, as long as it also has a legal "useful purpose" on another firearm you have.

As far as AR pistols, full auto stuff aside, it always comes down to a stock or vertical forward grip. And even a VFG can be used on a pistol with a legal overall length of 26" or more. Of course one would be an idiot to be out and about with only a pistol and also a stock, or even with a pistol, rifle, and extra stock, that's just baiting the bear, a Kwik sort of thang.

But even at home, if all I owned was an AR pistol, I wouldn't have a stock on my property at all, or a VFG if the thing was under 26".


- OS

I meant to say that i will be doing it that way cause its my own preference to do it that way. Im not a fan of ar pistols, so its not going to kill me to let it sit until i get my stamp back. Im not going to be buying the upper while im waiting on my stamp because i dont have a legal "useful purpose" for a short barrel, other than if i wanted to do a pistol build, which as above, im not a fan of. As far as "testing and tweaking" i can do that when i get the rifle built.

[Chris]

An AR pistol you say.... hmmm. Don't have one of those yet.

Need to do some research... Quick! To the internet!

[Oh Shoot]

I meant to say that i will be doing it that way cause its my own preference to do it that way. Im not a fan of ar pistols, so its not going to kill me to let it sit until i get my stamp back.

Well, that of course is entirely up to you, but:
 

Im not going to be buying the upper while im waiting on my stamp because i dont have a legal "useful purpose" for a short barrel, other than if i wanted to do a pistol build, which as above, im not a fan of.

 

My point was, if you have a pistol legal lower, and regardless of any other spare parts also have a complete AR rifle, you do have a "useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm"  regarding the short barrel, as you have all the parts necessary to configure a legal pistol whether you actually wanted to make one or not.

 

There's nothing about "intent" in the rulings,  but merely what constitutes a legal assemblage of parts in close proximity. You have either made a NFA firearm or you have not.  If all pass possibility of legal usage test, then you're good. If not, you can be determined to have actually made an illegal NFA firearm, whether you actually physically did or not.

 

And yes, it's good not to treat this lightly, considering the possible penalty, no matter how remote. Full auto components aside, short barrel, stock, and vertical forward grip are the big three components one must consider in the AR realm.

 

- OS

Edited September 17, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[reed1285]

Well, that of course is entirely up to you, but:
 

 

My point was, if you have a pistol legal lower, and regardless of any other spare parts also have a complete AR rifle, you do have a "useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm"  regarding the short barrel, as you have all the parts necessary to configure a legal pistol whether you actually wanted to make one or not.

 

There's nothing about "intent" in the rulings,  but merely what constitutes a legal assemblage of parts in close proximity. You have either made a NFA firearm or you have not.  If all pass possibility of legal usage test, then you're good. If not, you can be determined to have actually made an illegal NFA firearm, whether you actually physically did or not.

 

And yes, it's good not to treat this lightly, considering the possible penalty, no matter how remote. Full auto components aside, short barrel, stock, and vertical forward grip are the big three components one must consider in the AR realm.

 

- OS

gotchya, government agents scare me, so I try to do things to where I KNOW im doing nothing wrong lol

[Oh Shoot]

gotchya, government agents scare me, so I try to do things to where I KNOW im doing nothing wrong lol

 

I suspect some old timers at ATF giggle with how cowed a percentage of the gun community still is due to some of their strong arm tactics in the past.

 

And it does indicate to me a lingering culture of thuggery to not publicly admit settled law by the frigging Supreme Court until almost 20 frigging years after the fact. That's of course just my humble opinion, officer. ;)

 

- OS

[vontar]

When it comes to AR's I am very green.

 

I have read what OS is saying and read that in the past as well.  I understand the idea of building a pistol first but not sure if I want an AR pistol.

 

However I did like the idea of an AR pistol as one example to have it in a camping bag and still be legal were a rifle in the same would not be.

 

Here is a question I have, for a 300 BLK, same receiver as the .556? just different guts/mags/upper/barrel?

 

Just wondering if I should think about doing 1 as 556 and the other at 300 BLK.  But again, I am behind the curve on AR builds.  I don't even have a parts list yet.

Edited September 17, 2013 by vontar

[TripleDigitRide]

 

 

Here is a question I have, for a 300 BLK, same receiver as the .556? just different guts/mags/upper/barrel?

 

Just wondering if I should think about doing 1 as 556 and the other at 300 BLK.  But again, I am behind the curve on AR builds.  I don't even have a parts list yet.

Other than the barrel and flash hider, everything else is the same.

Edited September 18, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[vontar]

Other than the barrel and flash hider, everything else is the same.

Really?

 

Then I will probably just to have one, make one of the a 300 just for some more power.

[TripleDigitRide]

Really?

 

Then I will probably just to have one, make one of the a 300 just for some more power.

Yep. Same magazines, same "guts", same upper receiver, etc.

[vontar]

well I think I just started my plan, one regular and one 300.

[TripleDigitRide]

well I think I just started my plan, one regular and one 300.

I'm definitely doing a 300 BLK pistol, but I will likely also pick up a pistol length 5.56 barrel, gas block and flash hider, too. 300 BLK isn't the cheapest thing to shoot, so I'd like the ability to make a fairly quick swap, if needed.