Shooter at DC Navy Yard

[Guest nra37922]

They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will leap out right away to escape the danger.

But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant, and then you gradually heat the kettle

until it starts boiling, the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.

[TMF]

They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will leap out right away to escape the danger.

But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant, and then you gradually heat the kettle

until it starts boiling, the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.

 

Who do you know that slowly boils a frog to death?  Pretty twisted pasttime right there.

 

It's funny, the last time I heard this argument was from a private from 1st ID explaining it in a much, much different context.

[vontar]

They are telling on the news today 1 shooter and he acted alone.

 

Well, they now have their poster child that background checks don't work.

This guy was ex navy, and had 2 shooting incidents.

 

 

They are talking about his past and 2 other incidents of his discharging a gun.  Once shooting out the tires of a person.

 

They already seem to know(reporting) that he brought his gun in Virginia.  What kind of records do they have to be able to track down a gun purchase location so fast?  less then 24 hours.

They are reporting like they already know everything.  Seems they have their answers a bit fast.

Edited September 17, 2013 by vontar

[TMF]

They already seem to know(reporting) that he brought his gun in Virginia. What kind of records do they have to be able to track down a gun purchase location so fast? less then 24 hours.
They are reporting like they already know everything. Seems they have their answers a bit fast.

Well, I'm assuming its leaked or just speculation, but cops can figure out that information in minutes. They have the weapon and serial number. All they had to do was call the manufacturer, tell them the serial number and the manufacturer can tell them where it was first shipped. If he was the original buyer then they know.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Listening to the Conservative Talk tonight, they did some investigating. This guy disappeared, no one knew where he was for a long time, not even his family. His father said he had no idea where he was at. Reprts were that he was in Thailand, but no one seems to know where. He also had mental health issues, was dishonorably discharged, and was released once in Texas for accidently discharging a firearm in the city and arrested the second time for shooting someones tires out. 

 

On a second note, not specifically referring to bersaguys post, because I have been hearing everyone say it. While listening to half a dozen legit conservative talk shows, they all said how Bill Clinton disarmed the soldiers on post. I know that not to be the case at all. 

 

I have owned firearms my entire military career. Owned them before joining and brought them with me, bought them in Army Rod and Gun Clubs all over the world and US. At no time, from 81 was I ever allowed to carry a firearm on post. If you lived in the barracks, your personal weapons were stored in the Arms Room. If you wanted to get them out, you had to make arrangements with the armorer. If you lived off post, you had to notify the MP's when you were bringing them on, to go to the range or hunt for example. They had to be declared. At no time, Concealed Permit or not, where we ever allowed to carry guns on post.Back in the early 80's it was worse than when I retired. you had to have a DoD permit for each and every gun unless you lived off post. If you were in Europe, had to have a permit to buy a gun. Each gun. As an example, here is my permit to purchase and own a Beretta 92 FB-S back in 85. your permits were good for 5 years. FOR EACH GUN. If you were transferring, you had to get your paperwork in no later than 60 days or your guns were not going with you, either direction, overseas or stateside. I lost a 700 BDL in 83 because of that and a Model 29 and a CZ75 in 88 for the same reason, I was one day late on the Model 29 and CZ75. I had one choice, turn them over to the MP's, or have the MP's hold them while a family member did the paperwork. Since all of my family in Germany, were Germans, I lost both guns.I bought plenty of guns when Clinton was President, took them to the range at Hood and Carson. didnt see any change in the rules. 

 

In fact, up until the 3 Star before the current one took over III Corp at Hood, you could at least bring your handguns on post. It was that 3 Star who banned handguns from Hood. ALL handguns. Presidents didnt get in the way of local Command Policies, not even Clinton. 

 

But they are saying it all over the news, I know that.

 

 

 

Things must have changed for the better when I was in Germany. In 1992 when I went to Germany my guns went with me and were packed in with my household goods. I did not do any special paperwork other than making sure they were on the inventory sheet. Once I got my household stuff I carried my guns to the arms room and turned them in. Then when I got my out processing paperwork to leave Gerrmany I went to the arms room and got my guns so they could go back in my household baggage for the trip home. They were in my on base housing for about a month before they came and packed my goods up. I never got a permit or special paperwork to ship to or from Europe. I never bought a gun in Germany.

 

I will see if I can find it but one duty station issued me a permit to carry a my duty gun off duty. It was issued by the post commander. This was in 1990 and expired in 1992.

 

I do recall several people who owned AR's in Germany who were not allowed to bring them in because of the ban. As a matter of fact there were always certain weapons that were not importable for sale. AR's could be had in 1995 for $60-$100 from people PCSing back to the states.

 

My last duty station allowed soldiers to keep their firearms in the on base housing. There was no special permits although you had to notify the Provost Marchall's office if you had a firearm. They were not interested in the type, just if you had one. Those in the barracks couldn't have firearms in their rooms. If you lived on base you could leave and enter anytime with a firearm as long as it wasn't loaded.

 

My son is in the Air Force and they are not allowed to keep anything that might be considered a firearm. He likes playing paintball and were going to get him a nice setup but he said they are not allowed to keep them in the barracks.

[dieewigeteufel]

Heard this morning that Obama and Feinstein are rolling out another weapons ban. Start calling and writing your people.

[Erik88]

Here we go again. When will people realize it just doesn't matter?

 

Yesterday it was a gun in DC(a gun free zone for all intensive purposes)

 

A few months ago it was a pressure cooker in Boston

 

On 9/11 it was 4 commercial airliners

 

In OKC it was a few hundred pounds of plant fertilizer.

 

 

At some point you would think people will realize we will never be safe. These events will continue to happen for the rest of our lives.

[jcoosi]

Heard on news this morning from first call for help to police on the scene was 7 minutes. Just wonder how the death number or injured would have changed if they were able to engage the shooter.

[leroy]

Folks, Eric makes a great point in the post above, as well as TMF's post on "evil".... .  We live in a dangerous world... A world that is rapidly changing for the worst, i think, proving the Darwinist's among us wrong.  We are getting worse, not better; we are getting more technologically advanced; yet more barbaric... 

 

In this country of late it seems we've demanded that, at best; the outliers of society; and, at worst; the insane, unbalanced and the "evil" among us be mainstreamed and given access to places where they would have never been able to in the relatively distant past.... We've deliberately demanded that barriers be applied to see to it that the propensity for this sort of thing is not found in back grounding and profiling potential employees, nor considered when reviewing their actions once hired.  There is no doubt in my mind that the military establishment ignored Nadal Hasan; my bet is that they ignored this guy as well.... .  

 

I say, in the most reasonable kind of way (...it's not kind, because it simply cant be...), if you have a job in the military-industrial complex; you had better keep your life insurance current or keep a weapon handy (....or both...)... We are allowing the folks who may work beside you to be just as dangerous as any battle-hardened jhadist or criminally insane nut, all to give honor to the "god of tolerance"... This grotesque, insane philosophy will not change until there is a house-cleaning at the top of the political class, their advisers, academia, and many in the military-industrial complex...

 

If i wuz in any location that wuz decreed to be "gun-free"; i would be lookin for another job... If i wuz servin in the military on active duty; i would be thinkin about why i wuz there and wonderin about whether Uncle Sam's social engineering objectives and goals were those i could live with...  I say ya could be in a potential combat zone in the office or the barracks and ya could find yourself unarmed.... I find that unconscionable and un-american....

 

God deliver us from the fools who believe this is the way secure military, sensitive gubmt installations, schools,or anywhere else, for that matter....Sometimes i think that we are the insane ones cloaking these nincompoops with the authority to order these insane policies to be implemented for "the collective good"....

 

leroy

Edited September 17, 2013 by leroy

[bersaguy]

And here is the policy right on back of the card. Army wide. Mine is A because I lived off post. And this is in 85. Long before Bill Clinton. And not everyone who lived off post could retain in quarters, that was left up to the command. You also couldnt even buy a gun if the Command didnt sign the paperwork to get one of these. You might get one off Post, get caught with it on post, you azz was in big trouble. From 81 to 90 somthing, Stateside permissions were done at local command level (Company or Troop) on DF's then whatever they changed the DF's too, cant remember.  

 

If Clinton disarmed anyone, it must have been the Marines, Air Force and Navy. Because the Army policies were already strict. And they were that way in 2001, 2002 - 2006 when I went hunting on Military installations, and 2010 when I took 6 guys down to Shelby on a Tank Range tour and vehicle tour. They wanted to take their Carry Guns and I called and was told no, you can only bring guns if there is a way of securing them while on Post. The MP's didnt have room in the Arms Room, no carry guns on post and only rifles and shotguns during hunting season, declared with special permission. 

 

 

 

TankerHC, This is just one on the hundreds of articles about one of Bill Clinton's first orders after taking office and it was issued in 1993. I know this to be fact since I had friends write me complaining about it that were in the military at the time on base in country.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/11/end-clinton-era-military-base-gun-ban/

[bersaguy]

Folks, if we go back in time and do some research which I did a few years back mass shootings in not a new thing. I went back to the 70s and read up on that guy in Texas that climbed up in that tower at Texas A&M and shot and killed about 20 people before they were able to get to him. He was armed with a 30-06 and a shotgun and stock pile of ammo. Had it not been for a couple ranchers in the area that went in to help the police there probably would have been more killed. 4 local ranchers that also had long range high powered rifles went to the college and offered to help. The problem was the police only had shot guns and pistols which were totally noneffective with the range he was at. The 4 ranchers took up positions where when ever he raised his head to shoot he was shot at by one of the ranchers. They kept his head down until a few police officers were able to gain access to the tower door. From then on it is history. The police officers gained access to the tower roof and shot the shooter several times killing him. But as far as mass killings look at the gangsters of the 20's and 30's that used Tommy guns to kill many groups of people. The real difference is today there are many more ways for the public to learn about the shootings even as they are happening real time. Weapons have also came a long way in their effectiveness compared to back years ago. Back in the 70's the police didn't learn anything from that college shooting. It was not until that shoot out between those two bank robbers and the FBI that it came to the reality that the police needed to take a new look at what they needed to do to keep up with the bad guys thus shotguns were replaced with automatic high powered rifles in the trucks of all FBI agents cars and soon after came SWAT in Federal and city police departments. Now even with all the advancements in law enforcement they are still protecting the public from behind as long as they continue making so many areas gun free zones.  I have many friends that work for local law enforcement and TBI and I have asked each of them how they really feel about the people getting permits to carry weapons for self protection. Every one of them said the same thing. They think it is a good idea because they all know that they cannot be everyplace all the time and they see the need for law abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves and their families. They said that they know when they are called to respond to a mass shooting that the person involved in not going to be a legal law abiding citizen but in a few cases the shooter was taken down by a law abiding citizen and prevented an even worse situation. They also said those are the shootings you never read about and almost never hear about because they don't want any good news about armed citizens getting out. Nuff said........... :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Herr Leader said, sometime yesterday he would use more Executive Action to eliminate the gun show loophole.

He knows he can't get anything through Congress. That situation, yesterday, smelled of the same thing in EFAD,

at the beginning, but that's something will never get out.

 

This stuff is too predictable, lacking the time element.

[Garufa]

There seems to be some question as to whether an AR-15 was even involved....

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/17/cnn-ar-15-may-not-have-been-used-in-navy-yard-shooting-after-all/

[TMF]

There seems to be some question as to whether an AR-15 was even involved....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/17/cnn-ar-15-may-not-have-been-used-in-navy-yard-shooting-after-all/

That won't stop the liberals from using this as an excuse to ban them. They're busy banning high capacity mags up in New York yet the majority of gun deaths are from small caliber, low capacity crap pistols.

[bersaguy]

This seems to always be the issue when it comes to reporting. The reporters have no clue what kind of guns are used but the poor AR or AK always seems to get the blame. Yesterday a shotgun was used. Joe Bidens choice of weapons. Maybe old Joe gave this guy the idea that a shotgun would be his choice of weapons so the guy chose it from old Joes recommendations...............jmho

[Steelharp]

Suspect drove a Prius.

 

Well, there ya go. Another "off their rocker" lefty. ;)

[Spots]

Looks like the leftist idiots jumped the gun.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/09/17/Ar-15-daily-news-cnn-already-blow-anti-gun-narrative

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[mikegideon]

Looks like the leftist idiots jumped the gun.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/09/17/Ar-15-daily-news-cnn-already-blow-anti-gun-narrative

Tapatalk ate my spelling.

 

Idiots say stupid stuff. Look it up :)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

It was a glock ar-15 shotgun.

[mikegideon]

It was a glock ar-15 shotgun.

 

:panic:  :panic:  :panic:

[bersaguy]

In all honesty does anyone expect any less of the main stream media this day in time to actually get their facts straight before they begin giving out news. The entire thing boils down to one thing. timing!!!!  All of them want to be the first to publish or release the story so if they don't have the true facts they begin making them up as they go to beat the next guys news story. They learned that by watching the liberals in the Government. They see them get away with it all the time so they figure it is alright for them to do it too.........jmho

[K191145]

Heard this morning that Obama and Feinstein are rolling out another weapons ban. Start calling and writing your people.

 

We just have to remind any reps considering voting for any gun control legislation of the two new "UN-EMPLOYED" reps in Colorado.

[Erik88]

A coworker just told me the FBI just released a report stating the shooter entered with a shotgun. The AR-15 was not his.

[Spiffy]

Maybe we need to have a National Conversation about Freedom of the Press........maybe the press shouldn't be so free to make up "facts" as they go along.

[Spots]

A coworker just told me the FBI just released a report stating the shooter entered with a shotgun. The AR-15 was not his.

FBI as of right now is confirming that shooter entered with a shotgun, and may have had two semi-auto pistols. They have found no evidence of an AR-15 that was carried in or taken from a guard

Tapatalk ate my spelling.