Another police shooting

[JayC]

Dave, A volunteer fire department is a great model...  Here you have citizens of a community volunteering their time to help protect their community.  On top of that at a fraction of the cost of a 'professional' full time fire department.

 

I'm not suggesting that we do away with 911, or not have duty shifts with reserve officers on patrol, only that we don't have to pay for a full time police force...  you might need some full time officers even in a small department... but a large chunk of the public facing workload can and should be done by everyday citizens of the community...  people who make a living doing something else and want to give back to their community.

 

As for speeding tickets...  I personally think that a crime requires a victim, if there is no victim filing a complaint then there is no crime.  Everything else is a ruse to steal more money from the producers in society.

 

JayC, you can't be serious! Start you a little town, put that type of police force in operation and then let us all know how it works out for you. A Volunteer Fire Dept is a good example. No cops on duty means you don't get stopped right?

 

DaveS

 

[DaveS]

Dave, A volunteer fire department is a great model...  Here you have citizens of a community volunteering their time to help protect their community.  On top of that at a fraction of the cost of a 'professional' full time fire department.

 

I'm not suggesting that we do away with 911, or not have duty shifts with reserve officers on patrol, only that we don't have to pay for a full time police force...  you might need some full time officers even in a small department... but a large chunk of the public facing workload can and should be done by everyday citizens of the community...  people who make a living doing something else and want to give back to their community.

 

As for speeding tickets...  I personally think that a crime requires a victim, if there is no victim filing a complaint then there is no crime.  Everything else is a ruse to steal more money from the producers in society.

My example of a Volunteer Fire department, is one where no one shows up to put out my neighbors house, except one person driving the truck, and I wound up working the fire. About 15 minutes in to it, a few started showing up. What if your life "depended" on that kind of response? Fire or LE makes no difference.

 

DaveS

[JayC]

I think you have the volunteer department you community deserves...  If you want a better one, maybe start volunteering?  Go around your neighborhood and talk to people and see if they would volunteer?

 

The fact is somebody did show up... and they do so out of the goodness of their heart and a desire to help their community.

 

I've never relied on a police officer to 'protect' me, and I for sure don't 'depend' on them to keep me alive...  Every time I've 'needed' a police officer it's always taken them 15-30 minutes to show up, that doesn't concern me...

 

We have great reserve programs already in this state that are doing a great job, Williamson and Sumner Counties for example...  The issue is that police unions are fighting expanding these programs because they fear it will take away 'paying jobs'.  

 

And we should be expanding them because we should be taking away those jobs.

 

If we'd stop this silly prohibition we call the 'war on drugs', we'd be able to lay off 50% of most large departments...  Layoff another 25-40% and replace them with volunteers...  And the problems we see with law enforcement would go way down.

 

BTW I do volunteer work in my community...  not volunteer fire or police but I help out when and where I can... and if my county/city had a reserve fire or police program and the community needed help I'd be there willing to do whatever I could.

 

My example of a Volunteer Fire department, is one where no one shows up to put out my neighbors house, except one person driving the truck, and I wound up working the fire. About 15 minutes in to it, a few started showing up. What if your life "depended" on that kind of response? Fire or LE makes no difference.

 

DaveS

Edited September 16, 2013 by JayC

[gregintenn]

A volunteer fire dept. worked great in the community where I grew up. I like the idea of volunteer law enforcement in small towns and rural areas. I wouldn't be opposed to being properly trained and helping out in my community.

[DaveS]

I was a volunteer Firefighter for years before becoming paid. I'm now retired after 26 years, and volunteered while being a paid Firefighter. I'm done, I'm through, and I'm "spent". My point being, when your life depends on it and the person you depend on is boating on the lake, or at work and can't leave, I'm damn glad my taxes pay LE to show up in a timely manner! Use my recent reloading accident as a prime example; within 3 minutes of my wife making a 911 call, a deputy (paid) pulled up out front of my house. He entered with a "trauma kit". About 30 seconds later, another Deputy (paid) entered with an AED unit. The deputy was rendering 1st aid when the paramedics (paid) showed up about 4 minutes later. After I got in the back of the ambulance and was being given an IV, a member of the Woodlawn Fire Department shows up. A "volunteer" (and thank god for these people's service) First Responder shows up. That Fire Department is less than three miles from me! Please do not get rid of "paid" responders! I still volunteer with the USFWS but that's as far as it goes. With budgets like they are in todays society, please be careful what you wish for!

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

A volunteer fire dept. worked great in the community where I grew up. I like the idea of volunteer law enforcement in small towns and rural areas. I wouldn't be opposed to being properly trained and helping out in my community.

Let's say you do this. Can you leave your job if I'm going through a break in or home invasion? Who can I depend on Greg? You? Your boss might have other ideas!

 

DaveS

[gregintenn]

Let's say you do this. Can you leave your job if I'm going through a break in or home invasion? Who can I depend on Greg? You? Your boss might have other ideas!

 

DaveS

Not sure I could do it 24/7, but does a single paid leo?

[mav]

We could compromise and just get rid of most of the SWAT units.  Seriously, I have no idea why a lot of communities have a SWAT unit.

[DaveS]

Not sure I could do it 24/7, but does a single paid leo?

No, but a whole department does. But keep in mind, If I have an emergency, I don't care what your schedule is. I need help and expect you to be there!

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

  Seriously, I have no idea why a lot of communities have a SWAT unit.

Because people act stupid, that's why. Get rid of stupid people and we'll get rid of SWAT teams. Deal?

 

DaveS

[Guest nra37922]

Because people act stupid, that's why. Get rid of stupid people and we'll get rid of SWAT teams. Deal?

 

DaveS

Start taking out the trash again and the problem will slowly thin out, never goes completely away but does become less a problem.

[gregintenn]

No, but a whole department does. But keep in mind, If I have an emergency, I don't care what your schedule is. I need help and expect you to be there!

 

DaveS

It does, and we have more than one neighbor I expect would be willing to help out as well. I realize that I am in the minority on this, as most of our country have now developed the " I want it all and I want it now" attitude. This plays right into the hands of an ever growing government.

[DaveS]

 

 

And we should be expanding them because we should be taking away those jobs.

 

If we'd stop this silly prohibition we call the 'war on drugs', we'd be able to lay off 50% of most large departments...  Layoff another 25-40% and replace them with volunteers...  

JayC; why don't you make suggestions to "rebuild America" instead of suggestions on how to further destroy America. Is Obama your golfing partner? I wonder, because your ideas are about as whacky as his!

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

Start taking out the trash again and the problem will slowly thin out, never goes completely away but does become less a problem.

Doesn't SWAT do a decent job of "taking out" the trash? I think so.

 

DaveS

[JayC]

DaveS,

 

We fundamentally disagree what is wrong with this country...  You see things as the government needs more people and more power to solve our problems...  And I think the government is the biggest problem we have and want to make it smaller and reduce my interactions with it.

 

We've been trying your method for decades, how is it working out?  My method worked fine for the first 150 years of this country...  and would work again today.

 

The difference is I've worked on my life...  create businesses and producing...  

 

You sir have taken for a large part of your life working for the government and living off of the productive members of society.  It's not a shocking surprise that somebody who retired from government 'service' (spending at least 20 years or more I'd guess), doesn't understand how business in the real world works, they've never had to make payroll, never had to risk their capital and future only to have useless government regulations stifle and hinder your business.

 

When the government runs out of money, they just steal more of it from the productive members of society.  They have a bunch of fancy names for this theft, but it's theft pure and simple.

 

JayC; why don't you make suggestions to "rebuild America" instead of suggestions on how to further destroy America. Is Obama your golfing partner? I wonder, because your ideas are about as whacky as his!

 

DaveS

Edited September 16, 2013 by JayC

[Guest 6.8 AR]

6.8 I understand what you are saying, but "Mayberry" is long gone. Every town in the once "good ol' US of A"  needs a dedicated police force. Surely you don't think this will still work, do you? I my self like the way things are right now. I would not ever want to live in a place that depends on volunteer LEO (again) for my safety! Those days are gone. What would really help America today, is to get people to stop being so anti LEO. But hey Jack, some LEO's brought it on themselves!

 

DaveS

The only anti-LEO I see coming from me and others is warranted with the examples. I'm not anti-LEO at all. Now, that may be what some might perceive, but they would be wrong. Mayberry does exist. There are a lot of places that don't even have PD's. That wouldn't be for everywhere, but the places with no crime, to speak of, would probably benefit from it. Many people police themselves negating the need for a PD.

 

What I think would benefit America most, today, would be to get people more able to take care of themselves, like stamping out welfare, in all it's governmental forms, and letting people see what individualism is all about. People are basically good in nature, rather than what we see on the news every day. We are, and have been, allowing the breeding of welfare recipients who expect something for nothing, lack of morals to guide them, and no motivation to do better for themselves. We have a LEO problem for many reasons. We expect them to be some kind of super human being, also. Not me, but many do. And there are those who get the badge that should have never been allowed near the process.

 

Lotsa reasons.

Edited September 16, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[gregintenn]

DaveS,

 

We fundamentally disagree what is wrong with this country...  You see things as the government needs more people and more power to solve our problems...  And I think the government is the biggest problem we have and want to make it smaller and reduce my interactions with it.

 

We've been trying your method for decades, how is it working out?  My method worked fine for the first 150 years of this country...  and would work again today.

 

The difference is I've worked on my life...  create businesses and producing...  

 

You sir have taken for a large part of your life working for the government and living off of the productive members of society.  It's not a shocking surprise that somebody who retired from government 'service' (spending at least 20 years or more I'd guess), doesn't understand how business in the real world works, they've never had to make payroll, never had to risk their capital and future only to have useless government regulations stifle and hinder your business.

 

When the government runs out of money, they just steal more of it from the productive members of society.  They have a bunch of fancy names for this theft, but it's theft pure and simple.

John Galt, is that you? :cool:

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Now, now, I'm a big fan of John. :D

[DaveS]

DaveS,

 

We fundamentally disagree what is wrong with this country...  You see things as the government needs more people and more power to solve our problems...  And I think the government is the biggest problem we have and want to make it smaller and reduce my interactions with it.

 

We've been trying your method for decades, how is it working out?  My method worked fine for the first 150 years of this country...  and would work again today.

 

The difference is I've worked on my life...  create businesses and producing...  

 

You sir have taken for a large part of your life working for the government and living off of the productive members of society.  It's not a shocking surprise that somebody who retired from government 'service' (spending at least 20 years or more I'd guess), doesn't understand how business in the real world works, they've never had to make payroll, never had to risk their capital and future only to have useless government regulations stifle and hinder your business.

 

When the government runs out of money, they just steal more of it from the productive members of society.  They have a bunch of fancy names for this theft, but it's theft pure and simple.

Sir; what you must understand is that the whole time I worked for the Government, I ran a full time Taxidermy and deer processing business with full time employees. Came home from the department and worked another 12 hours before repeating the whole thing over again. You're preaching to the wrong congregation brother! Stop being so anti LEO and anti Government, and do something to make a difference! I guess we all could huh?

 

DaveS

[mav]

Stop being so anti LEO and anti Government, and do something to make a difference! I guess we all could huh?

 

DaveS

 

While I can't speak for JayC, I believe you are misinterpreting what he is saying.  I don't think he is anti-LEO or anti-government.  I do, however,  think he is for limited amount of both entities, which I agree with.  What we have now just isn't working, and it will never work because the model has been proven to be a failure.  The question now becomes, do we want to continue down the same path where government incessantly grows, puts each and everyone of us further in debt with no means to repay, and have our liberties slowly stripped from us, etc...?  The obvious answer should be a resounding, hell no.  If we are to change, why not change to a model that did work for this country?

[jtmaze]

Well said mav!!!! The problem is we can't sell it. I have many times posted a plan on here for getting a change in Washington by creating a successful community within the country politically so that it can snowball and eventually reach Washington. The problem is the Hardworking americans are in the minority now, and I don't think we can sell it to the others.

[c.a.willard]

I see several people saying that LEO should be volunteers; I have just one question.  How many of those of you that feel that way volunteer with your county reserve deputy program?

[DaveS]

I see several people saying that LEO should be volunteers; I have just one question.  How many of those of you that feel that way volunteer with your county reserve deputy program?

Good question C.A.. So in the mean time, let's put hundreds of thousand of people out of work due to volunteer services. Not a very good plan at all!

 

DaveS

Edited September 17, 2013 by DaveS

[gregintenn]

I see several people saying that LEO should be volunteers; I have just one question.  How many of those of you that feel that way volunteer with your county reserve deputy program?

I didn't know there was one. Could you post a link to information about it please?

[c.a.willard]

Every county is a little different in how they run their reserve deputy program and if they even have one.  I'm honestly not sure about Macon county as i live in Montgomery county.  I looked at the Macon SD website, but it is a horrible site.  I would suggest inquiring directly.