Another police shooting

[DaveS]

This is sad folks.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/ferrell-kerrick-police-unarmed-shooting-charlotte-191520307.html

 

DaveS

[JohnC]

Wow. Was the car wreck victim maybe knocked delusional from his injuries? Sounded like he was sort of frantically seeking help (pounding on the door), but charging toward the cops? I don't understand that part. I'd like to see the dash-cam footage on this one because it just sounds so odd he would "charge toward" the cops.

 

I've been in a wreck where I rolled a car (at 17) out in the country. I was thrown out of the passengers side window of an 86 Cutlass Supreme Brougham toward the end of the roll over. I knew I was injured and my first thought was to get to a nearby house I seen down the road asap to get them to call 911 for an ambulance.

 

So I can relate to his pounding on the door. I just can't understand the "charging toward" the cops part. Maybe he was running towards them for help as in trying to get there asap? That would make more sense and I could see how the LEO's could mistaken that on a home burglary call or something.

 

Tragic for the LEO and the wreck victim for sure!

Edited September 15, 2013 by JohnC

[mav]

It is more than sad.  This story stinks to high heaven.  The victim after having a car crash banged on the door of a house nearby.  A woman answered the door, and then called the police because she thought the victim was a burglar.  Hmmm, never knew burglars knocked on doors, but okay.  After the police arrive the victim charges after three police officers?  BS.  Like I said, this story stinks.

[DaveTN]

It is more than sad.  This story stinks to high heaven.  The victim after having a car crash banged on the door of a house nearby.  A woman answered the door, and then called the police because she thought the victim was a burglar.  Hmmm, never knew burglars knocked on doors, but okay.  After the police arrive the victim charges after three police officers?  BS.  Like I said, this story stinks.

What’s so hard to believe? What do you think happened?

[rugerla1]

It is more than sad.  This story stinks to high heaven.  The victim after having a car crash banged on the door of a house nearby.  A woman answered the door, and then called the police because she thought the victim was a burglar.  Hmmm, never knew burglars knocked on doors, but okay.  After the police arrive the victim charges after three police officers?  BS.  Like I said, this story stinks.

I've heard numerous stories of people knocking, homeowner opens door, then bad stuff happens. But, I agree that something is missing, especially the charging against 3 officers. I mean, if he was hurt, scared, delirious, and running towards them needing help, I'd like to think they would be able to tell. As you said, somethings smells.

[Randall53]

Being in an accident like that can make you very unstable balance wise. This could have been the situation here and the victim could have stumbled in the officers direction which was mistaken for a "lunge". Sure is a sad story, whatever happened.

[rugerla1]

Being in an accident like that can make you very unstable balance wise. This could have been the situation here and the victim could have stumbled in the officers direction which was mistaken for a "lunge". Sure is a sad story, whatever happened.

Yes indeed. I'm sure the phone call about a possible burglar didn't help, being as that is surely what was on the officers minds when they showed up. Sad deal from beginning to end and prayers to the family of the deceased and for the officers family as well as he may be gone for a while.

[DaveS]

I was involved in a head on collision back in 2010. I remember the guy crossing the double yellow line and then in the emergency room. I was told that I fought the MP's and EMS personel. I just got off duty at the Fire department and one of my coworkers who responded said I was fighting off everyone. To this very day, it breaks my heart to think that I acted as I did against the very people whom tried to help me. I remember nothing. I only know what I was told! Sad story with this guy!

 

DaveS

[mav]

What’s so hard to believe? What do you think happened?

 

Dave, I have no idea what happened, but the story I read doesn't make any sense.  Obviously though, the department now thinks the officer was wrong.

 

(edit) -  Originally, the department thought the officer was justified in his actions.  After an investigation, the department concluded the officer was in the wrong.  Is it normal procedure to place other officers on the scene on paid administrative leave?  They didn't shoot the victim, so why are they being punished?  There was an investigation, so what aren't we being told regarding the other two officers?  One of whom apparently used a taser.

 

The way the article reads, it appears to be a cover-up to minimize lawsuits.

Edited September 15, 2013 by mav

[DaveTN]

Dave, I have no idea what happened, but the story I read doesn't make any sense.  Obviously though, the department now thinks the officer was wrong.

I’m curious. One Officer tazed the guy. I wonder if the other Officer shot him at the same time, or what?

 

I don’t know why one investigation determined he was justified and a “subsequent” investigation determined he wasn’t? I wonder if the second was the DA, outside agency or if some other evidence came up?

 

But yes, he is charged criminally so I guess more information will be coming.

 

Tragic situation for all involved.

[JohnC]

I was involved in a head on collision back in 2010. I remember the guy crossing the double yellow line and then in the emergency room. I was told that I fought the MP's and EMS personel. I just got off duty at the Fire department and one of my coworkers who responded said I was fighting off everyone. To this very day, it breaks my heart to think that I acted as I did against the very people whom tried to help me. I remember nothing. I only know what I was told! Sad story with this guy!

 

DaveS

 

Did you have a concussion?

 

Might have been what happened to this guy.

 

I feel for both the LEO and this victim.

[DaveS]

They said I did. I got violent and didn't even know it! Head injuries are a bummer!

 

DaveS

[bersaguy]

When you get to investigations that quick back to back and one decided 's one way and the other goes in exact opposite direction lawsuit cover-up's are in the making almost every time. Most police shootings are justified up front but probably after talking with the other officers involved they got the real facts and then made the proper decision in their minds at that point. I do have prayers being sent to the poor mans family for their loss and will express sorrow for the officers situation. My problem is 3 officers on the scene 1 guy acting frantically distraught and these three men could not subdue him  long enough to find out what is happening does not say much for any or all of those police officers. They didn't see any weapons in his hands so the reason for shooting him goes to almost zero at that point. Physical restraint 3 on 1 should have been used..............jmho

[Dustbuster]

Saw that on the news as well. I'm glad the chief supported the arrest. What a sad loss of young life...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

[vontar]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/why-did-police-shoot-this-football-player-who-had-just-survived-a-car-wreck/

 

 

Police have ruled the shooting “excessive.”

“Our investigation has shown that Officer Kerrick did not have a lawful right to discharge his weapon during this encounter,”

[Guest 6.8 AR]

They said I did. I got violent and didn't even know it! Head injuries are a bummer!

 

DaveS

Glad to know that wasn't that recent, DaveS. The current result might have been different from yours. Dem triggers,

all of a sudden, are more justified, I guess. At least this one was charged.

[c.a.willard]

For anyone interested here is a link to that departments use of force continuum   http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/CMPD/zstorage/InsideCMPD/Documents/600020UseofForceContinuum.pdf.

 

It's pretty standard stuff that members with any LE background are familiar with, but it may be helpful for others.   The victim running at the officers would place him in the active aggression category.  A impact weapon or conducted energy would have been sufficient in handling the situation.

 

Way to many police officers are drawing their gun way to early in a possible confrontation.  I understand it is a dangerous job, but some critical thinking has to be applied to choosing the right tool.  When your pistol is out and someone rushes you you don't have time to switch to another tool and make a snap decision to use the one in your hand.   

 

It sucks for a couple of reasons.  Most importantly an innocent man is dead.  Secondarily an individual who most likely meant to do good ended up killing someone and will likely go to prison(As he should).  It's a training deficiency that is all to common today for some reason.  Hopefully this department reviews their use of force training.  It's likely they will since they had the integrity to charge the officer responsible and admit that it was a bad shoot.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's much of a better answer than most others who think the use of deadly force is the default. Thanks for posting that,

CA.

 

I'm disgusted with the lack of integrity showing up. Training and better screening of candidates might go a long way towards

a more professional police. Some think that people automatically cop-bash at the drop of a pin, but this stuff should be exposed

at every opportunity to get rid of the bad, or less qualified, and make the people charged with public safety more professional

and better respected. It sure beats the Hell out of defaulting to the SWAT mentality to deal with more than needed.

[Erik88]

There was a shooting in NYC over the weekend as well.

 

Once again the officers completely missed the BG and hit two bystanders. Oh, and the suspect was not armed.

 

This comes just a few months after officers wounded 9 bystanders in NYC.

 

I know it's hard to hit under stress but they really need to think before opening fire in times square.

[E4 No More]

Humm, a football player is in an accident where it's entirely possible that he had a concussion on top of past concussions. He knocks "viciously" on a door at 2:30 in the morning. Could it be that it he was concerned more about being able to be heard for emergency care than being unobtrusive? He "charged" at police. Could he have walked purposefully towards the officers at 2:30 in the morning on a burglary in progress call with a concussion and it was misinterpreted by a young officer?

 

This is so subjective it's incredible.

[JayC]

I would agree, but I think we need a less 'professional' police force, but one that still works the way you describe...  In towns and counties in this state there should be very few if any full time paid police officers or deputies and we should have departments made up of mostly reserve officers/deputies who are unpaid volunteers.

 

People who are outstanding members of the community already, business owners, teachers, plumbers and other professionals...  People who you'll see at the local market or sitting next to you at church next Sunday.  

 

In the larger cities where we have much higher crime rate, full time officers are likely needed, but at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the department should still be manned by unpaid volunteer officers.

 

Protection of the community should be seen as a service not a job...  

 

Then again if we do away with all the unconstitutional laws that we're trying to enforce, there would be a lot less crime, and a lot less risk to officer safety and the vast majority of arguments used to justify excessive force would go away.  We also be able to lay off more than 50% of big city police forces and save a ton of money.

 

That's much of a better answer than most others who think the use of deadly force is the default. Thanks for posting that,

CA.

 

I'm disgusted with the lack of integrity showing up. Training and better screening of candidates might go a long way towards

a more professional police. Some think that people automatically cop-bash at the drop of a pin, but this stuff should be exposed

at every opportunity to get rid of the bad, or less qualified, and make the people charged with public safety more professional

and better respected. It sure beats the Hell out of defaulting to the SWAT mentality to deal with more than needed.

Edited September 16, 2013 by JayC

[TMF]

No doubt it's tragic.  Obviously the deceased wasn't a perpetrator of a crime, though we won't know until the testimony of the other officers during the trial how exactly the man was acting at the time of the shooting.  One thing is for certain, the officer who was charged is likely very, very regretful.  This case reminds me of the officer who shot the man in the subway station thinking it was his taser but instead shot him with his pistol.  A tragic mistake due to negligence.  Hopefully this is one of those cautionary tales that departments use when training new guys.

[DaveS]

I would agree, but I think we need a less 'professional' police force, but one that still works the way you describe...  In towns and counties in this state there should be very few if any full time paid police officers or deputies and we should have departments made up of mostly reserve officers/deputies who are unpaid volunteers. 

 

In the larger cities where we have much higher crime, full time officers are likely needed, but at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the department should still be manned by unpaid volunteer officers. 

 

Then again if we do away with all the unconstitutional laws that we're trying to enforce, there would be a lot less crime, and a lot less risk to officer safety and the vast majority of arguments used to justify excessive force would go away. 

JayC, you can't be serious! Start you a little town, put that type of police force in operation and then let us all know how it works out for you. A Volunteer Fire Dept is a good example. No cops on duty means you don't get stopped right?

 

DaveS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

DaveS In small town USA, it still is that way, maybe with a little more than that, but there are still Mayberrys and they function

just fine. Sure there is a need for police, but when they can be spotted, like the examples on Youtube and the problems being

reported in the news, only means there is a big problem. I wonder how many of these situations go unreported?

 

Things used to be a lot simpler. They are different in the larger populated areas, but the problems become political the way

they seem to be addressed. Take, DUI, for one example. Money to a certain group of lawyers will take care of that. Meth

is very political. Get 'em in the system. Make the costs go up and raise taxes. Gangs are dealt with, I don't really know. Maybe

they go after them with group hugs, because they sure don't have a grip on it.

 

Bottom line to me is the police use a default system to handle most situations and people who don't need to be treated like

common criminals sure seem to be.

 

It's going in the wrong direction.

[DaveS]

6.8 I understand what you are saying, but "Mayberry" is long gone. Every town in the once "good ol' US of A"  needs a dedicated police force. Surely you don't think this will still work, do you? I my self like the way things are right now. I would not ever want to live in a place that depends on volunteer LEO (again) for my safety! Those days are gone. What would really help America today, is to get people to stop being so anti LEO. But hey Jack, some LEO's brought it on themselves!

 

DaveS