Hunting Record Deer that are not "natural". Agree or disagree?

[Guest TankerHC]

Sorry for the long post, if you dont like long posts, dont read. My dad died this past April, and this all came to mind. 

 

When I was a kid, we hunted a lot, spent lots of times outdoors. My dad would be there on day one of Deer season, every single year, from day one to the last day (At times) we were in the mountains of Western Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania or down on Maryland's Eastern Shore. He was the kind of Hunter that pissed everyone off. First, if Hunting season started on a Wednesday, we were out there on Sunday (Before), if it were warm enough, our azzes slept on the ground (To him warm was 30), if not, we slept in the Station Wagon or truck. Station wagon if there were more than me, my brothers and dad. you dont stay in Hotels when you go hunting. These were his rules. The sun comes up at 6 whatever, 2AM we are headed up the mountain (Cause its going to take us several hours to get there). And if you rode with him, you were going, might as well, if you want to stand around and stay warm, his truck will be locked, see you when we get back, might be tomorrow. I never saw him go into the woods and NOT come back with a Deer, or Rabbits, or Squirrels or Turkeys or whatever he was hunting. When everyone who was with him would be gathered near our meetup points with nothing, my dad would walk out of the woods and say "someone needs to help me get this deer down the mountain". He also didnt believe in hunting with a scope, and although he owned lots of expensive rifles, he would just carry whatever he felt like grabbing, although it would be ready. One year he picked up a $15 6.5 Carcano service rifle at one of the gun shows. Total POS. When he said he was going to fix it, his friends, especially a very close friend named Thomas told him sitting in our kitchen that he wasnt going to take anything with that piece of junk. This was in the 70's, I sat right there with him while he took it apart and made repairs, there was a casing jammed in the receiver, he got that out, did a bunch of stuff with hand files,  then he cut and shaped the stock like he wanted, he had seen some engraving in a magazine he liked so he got the magazine out, and I sat there HOLDING THE STOCK while he eyeballed and burned in that exact engraving. That year, everyone was with us got nothing, he wasnt in the woods two hours past daylight and was dragging a deer down the mountain. He had one opinion on hunting, either you were hunting, or you were doing something else (When it came to things like scopes, expensive rings, high dollar guns, he didnt give a rats ass, if you couldnt take a deer with a rifle manufactured in 1872 and needed a 900 dollar rifle with a $200 scope and a ton of extra gear, then you weren't hunting, you were shooting). (Some of you guys would not have liked my dad, he would call a lot of hunters "shooter not hunters" with all the hunting gear available today), not saying its bad or wrong, just saying. And it wasnt that he couldnt afford it, he could if he wanted to, and most everything available then he could get wholesale if he wanted.

 

Then there was my uncle, John, bigwig at GM. ran the plant in Maryland, eventually took over 4 plants and ended up at GM headquarters. Had his own Helicopter. He was a Hunter too. GM used to send their Executives on big hunts all over the place. He asked my dad, or my dad asked him, cant remember if he wanted to go hunting on a big trip to Wyoming. He did, we all went. First day, not good. The Lodge we stayed in was the fricken Taj Mahal of Wyoming. And it was an organized hunt, so you couldnt go out unless the guide was with you. My father was ready to leave 10 minutes after we got there. Then, day two, my father thought we were going "hunting", instead they loaded everyone up in 4 Jeeps and we rode out on some hills, there were herds of animals (I say animals because for some reason I cant remember specifically what we were hunting), and the jeeps split, started herding the animals, and the hunters started shooting. My father was pretty appalled and it wasnt long after we were on our way home, he never even pulled the trigger, don't think he even lifted his rifle.  You could go into my Uncles house in Pasadena, and he had mounts, not head mounts, entire animals, he had a Bear, fully mounted upright, with paws over his head, growling, in his living room. Everyone was pretty impressed by his Hunting prowess, until my dad got back from Wyoming. They ended up in a sort of challenge, he and my dad went out Deer Hunting, because my Uncle John said the way he hunted was no different than any other hunting, just used Jeeps. Didnt work out, John got nothing, dad came home with a deer. several times.

 

Just typed all that to illustrate where I am on this. I know there are plenty of people right now just like my dad. And I know there are plenty of people who think tying an old sick Lion to a tree and shooting it from a distance is "taking a Lion". (This was actually happening in Texas when I was stationed there, big brouhaha about it).

 

As for me, shooting a deer, whether or not genetically bred specifically to have giant antlers or be a monster buck that breaks world records is the same as Mark McQuire breaking the home run record on PED's.

 

It dont count.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/15/hunters-trade-shots-over-deer-breeding-killing-methods/

 

 

 

[TrickyNicky]

Tanker, sorry for your loss. It sounds like your dad was a hell of a man, glad you were able to have so many good memories with him.

As to the question, hunting means a lot of different things to different people. Who's to say what's real or not? The only time I've gone no one got anything. For many that would be a failed hunt, for me the time spent with one of my best friends was surely not wasted time.

As to the canned hunts, I'm not to much in favor of it for the most part. Like anything else there are always exceptions, but for the most part it's just not real IMO.

[Curiousgb]

That ain't hunting. It is killing.

[whiskey]

I don't believe we should be genetically modifying anything. Deer, corn or babies.

Science is messing up a lot of good things. I can't help but feel that this is going to end poorly.


Yup.

[UncleJak]

I don't believe we should be genetically modifying anything. Deer, corn or babies.

Science is messing up a lot of good things. I can't help but feel that this is going to end poorly.


Yup.

that's what I was gonna say. Well said sir!

sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[Timestepper]

While I won't deride those with trophys in their homes, I've always been of the mindset that you can't eat horns. Pretty much the only time I'll even consider taking a buck is if I need antler material for making something (buttons, flint knapping tools, etc...). And you'll never find me on a "canned hunt..." no matter how hard it is to get around with a fused ankle. 

 

Having said all that, Hey, if a canned hunt or trophy only hunt gets someone out in the woods and/or puts a few more people on the side of hunting and gun ownership, then I'm not going to make a fuss about it. I mean, just 'cause it ain't right for me don't mean it's wrong for someone else...

 

 

...TS...

[KahrMan]

Thats not hunting.  If people want to do that, its their business but modified or canned hunt deer should never be in the record books.

[Chris]

I've done canned hunts (hogs) that have been enormously entertaining. I've gone on safari in South Africa, where everything is behind a fence and had a fantastic time. Each was challenging and rewarding in their own way. However, I do not value the trophies from those hunts nearly as much as the ones I earned on fair chase hunts. So much so that now, I only hunt fair chase. The ones behind the fence were hunts... but they have an asterisk next to the listing, if you know what I mean. The idea of hunting one of these specially bred behind the fence monsters just makes me roll my eyes.

Now, that being said, anything that brings more people and more support to our sport... I'm all for that. For people w/ little time and no access to good hunting land, a canned hunt may be their only reasonable option. While I won't do it myself, I try not to judge those that do. 

[DaveS]

I'll take a doe over a big buck any day. I have some nice bucks on my property and do not care to kill any. If anyone wants one....guide fee's apply,but no guarantee. Don't play with my deer's genes!

 

DaveS

[Howler]

Love to hunt horns. I've never hunted high fence areas but have hunted areas where the smaller bucks get a pass. I don't have a problem with that. Would I like to kill a record size deer? Sure. Not going to be in a cage though. Money drives the deer farms and that will never stop. And I could care less. I can't determine what a trophy is for someone else.

 

We all tend to have the attitude that if it ain't done my way then it must be wrong. I remember when anyone using a crossbow was looked down upon. Now it's just the norm. I don't care if people hunt over bait, use a crossbow, or hunt high fence areas. If it's legal and it floats your boat....go for it.

[10-Ring]

I like your dad's style Tanker.  I like to think I'm like him, although I will use a scope depending on the situation.  I think it's fun to hunt with my father in law, who owns every hunting item and garment that Gander Mountain carries.  I like to show up with my old .270, brown Carhardt's, binos and seat cushion and out hunt him.  

[Randall53]

It's a bunch of phony people with money participating in a phony activity. It is in no way hunting.

[Guest TankerHC]

Here is what I dont get, maybe a poorly written article. 

 

"But other deer breeding groups, like Michigan-based Whitehouse Whitetails, said there's no difference between killing deer in the wild and killing them in an enclosed space. 

"They have the right to do that because it isn't to hunt. They just want the head to mount on their wall," said Laura Caroll, who, along with her husband, owns the deer breeding company. 

"They [critics] are saying that one way of killing them is different from another way of killing them," she said. "But the end result is that they kill them." 

 

Yet right at the begining of the Article the writer says they are obliterating records of legitimately hunted deer. Anyone know of one of these genetically modified deer obliterating a record? If they actually are not, then I suppose they are right in that it is no different than butchering a cow. Which isnt hunting either.