MO Cop to open-carry chicks: "Show me your papers!"

[DaveS]

Roger that.

 

DaveS

[GoneBallistic]

Yes, it’s a state issued ID. The question comes into play what you are using it for. For example a gun hating store doesn’t have to accept it as ID.

I don’t think the cop rejected the gun card, I think he was being a jerk trying to make a point about the card. He also questioned the passport? I think he was just being an azz.

How can anyone refuse it? It is a government issued ID. No different than a driver's license.

[daddyo]

In my opinion, when you open carry, then you and your friends stick video cameras in the cop face, and repeat over and over....did I break any laws?, It's my right, why do you need my ID...over and over and over. How do you want the cop to act? What point are they trying to get across? Show your damn ID, and get on with life. Simple. Yes, the cop was a little lacking in bedside manner, but I would be too if someone shoved video cameras in my face, and wouldn't answer my questions. Yeah, folks, let's do our selves a big favor....and keep acting like asshats! It'll go well and far for our future 2A rights!

DaveS

If you don't stand stand up for your rights, no one else will, either.

[DaveTN]

How can anyone refuse it? It is a government issued ID. No different than a driver's license.

I’m not aware of any law that requires a store to accept any ID? They accept what they want. Might be a clerk that has never seen an HCP, or just doesn’t want to accept it.

[DaveS]

If you don't stand stand up for your rights, no one else will, either.

But at the same time, how about doing me a favor and not push your rights to the point that it may cause me to lose mine! As long as people push the issue with firearms as some are doing, there is a good chance that laws will get tighter and not more lax. I don't need, nor do I want their help! Laws governing firearms is not going to get better. Those days are long gone. Let's go on now and put a "gunbuster" on every building in the state. That's where it's going!

 

DaveS

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

But at the same time, how about doing me a favor and not push your rights to the point that it may cause me to lose mine! As long as people push the issue with firearms as some are doing, there is a good chance that laws will get tighter and not more lax. I don't need, nor do I want their help! Laws governing firearms is not going to get better. Those days are long gone. Let's go on now and put a "gunbuster" on every building in the state. That's where it's going!

 

DaveS

You really need to get out more. Things are getting better down here in Ga every year. We dont think like you do an cause of that we have been gaining ground. Open carry is getting to be normal here. Stores dont usually even carry CC holsters. Its been a few years sense anyone has even asked me a question about my gun. Probably been just as long sense I have seen a "gunbuster" sign without going in to Tn. You just dont see them much down here but you do see guns. Lots of OC people have sued countys over the last few years an we have gained ground every time. Cop checking a permit down here without RAS earns that town a OC rally. At this point you cant get a cop to look at you so the people that fish for lawsuets have moved... Worst one moved to Tn as yall know.

 

We had a guy a year or two ago carry a loaded AK to the "Occupy Atlanta" rally. He even took the subway to get there. A news crew asking him if it was loaded but not a word from LEOs. It was not even a blip on the radar to law makers.

[DaveS]

You really need to get out more. Things are getting better down here in Ga every year.

I really do get out quite a lot. This is TN not GA. Just saying...

 

Since I really live in TN (I've done my time in GA) I'm more concerned about my rights here and how it effects me. Not GA, MO, AK, AL or any other place for that matter. But right here, where signs go up daily. But in general, us gun owners are losing ground.

 

DaveS

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

I really do get out quite a lot. This is TN not GA. Just saying...

 

Since I really live in TN (I've done my time in GA) I'm more concerned about my rights here and how it effects me. Not GA, MO, AK, AL or any other place for that matter. But right here, where signs go up daily. But in general, us gun owners are losing ground.

 

DaveS

This thread is about MO just to remind you...

 

<deleted>... your state, your fight. I got no dog in it..

[daddyo]

But at the same time, how about doing me a favor and not push your rights to the point that it may cause me to lose mine! As long as people push the issue with firearms as some are doing, there is a good chance that laws will get tighter and not more lax. I don't need, nor do I want their help! Laws governing firearms is not going to get better. Those days are long gone. Let's go on now and put a "gunbuster" on every building in the state. That's where it's going!

 

DaveS

I agree that there are some who hurt us more than they help us. These girls, however, were simply going about their business as they exercised their rights. They complied with the officer's request for ID. As was stated, the only proper response was to let them go on their way without any further questioning or harassment. Instead, he decided to show everyone how small his privates were by continuing to treat them as suspects even though he had no probable cause.

These are the kind of cops that give the rest a bad name with many folks.

[GoneBallistic]

But at the same time, how about doing me a favor and not push your rights to the point that it may cause me to lose mine! As long as people push the issue with firearms as some are doing, there is a good chance that laws will get tighter and not more lax. I don't need, nor do I want their help! Laws governing firearms is not going to get better. Those days are long gone. Let's go on now and put a "gunbuster" on every building in the state. That's where it's going!

 

DaveS

Sometimes you have to push limits to gain ground. Look at the Boston Tea Party. I'd be willing to bet there were a LOT of people who didn't agree with that idea. I'm a pretty big fan but I'm sure there were people worried about the repercussions instead of what there was to gain. Also, this is a clear-cut issue in the 2nd Amendment. Laws against ANY kind of carry are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

[TMF]

I agree that there are some who hurt us more than they help us. These girls, however, were simply going about their business as they exercised their rights. They complied with the officer's request for ID. As was stated, the only proper response was to let them go on their way without any further questioning or harassment. Instead, he decided to show everyone how small his privates were by continuing to treat them as suspects even though he had no probable cause.

These are the kind of cops that give the rest a bad name with many folks.

Yeah, this was my big problem with this guy; who treats young ladies like that? What an effing coward to act like that and push them around. If he didnt have a badge on and was treating little women like that he'd be getting his teeth knocked in.

[DaveS]

Maybe because your average citizen who encounters LEO isn't prepared with 2 or 3 friends with video recording devices as these girls where. It seems they were waiting for an encounter with LE. Had it been me investigating, those folks with phones/cameras might had gotten the same reaction from me too. There was no reason in the world for them to film that officer. They started filming him the second he walked in.There's a good chance he wouldn't have acted as he did if the "cameras weren't rolling". He may have been covering his own azz by his actions.

 

I wish that every one of you who complain about LE would walk in their shoes for just one day! Because one day is all it's going to take for you to see the other side of the stories.

 

DaveS

Edited October 27, 2013 by DaveS

[Fallguy]

Maybe because your average citizen who encounters LEO isn't prepared with 2 or 3 friends with video recording devices as these girls where. It seems they were waiting for an encounter with LE. Had it been me investigating, those folks with phones/cameras might had gotten the same reaction from me too. There was no reason in the world for them to film that officer. They started filming him the second he walked in.There's a good chance he wouldn't have acted as he did if the "cameras weren't rolling". He may have been covering his own azz by his actions.

 

I wish that every one of you who complain about LE would walk in their shoes for just one day! Because one day is all it's going to take for you to see the other side of the stories.

 

DaveS

 

Everyone with a cellphone, which is pretty much everyone period, walks around with a video recording device.  Also many people tend to go out with friend when they go out.

 

You can't honestly think he would have been more pleasant and professional if the camera hadn't been on?

 

No doubt LEOs have a hard job and deal with the lowest of the low at times, but that is also the job. But that doesn't mean everyone they meet is on the 10 most wanted or every call is the crime of the century.

 

I really think some of it is the same as the problem with Drs over-prescribing medicine.  People who go to the doctor don't want to be told, there is nothing wrong or they'll get better on their own in a little...they want medicine. Sometimes I think LEOs must think, I was called, there must be a crime here somewhere, I just have to keep on and on till I find.  Trouble is these days people call the police for anything and everything and it's not always illegal or even suspicious just because the caller thought it was.

[TMF]

Maybe because your average citizen who encounters LEO isn't prepared with 2 or 3 friends with video recording devices as these girls where. It seems they were waiting for an encounter with LE. Had it been me investigating, those folks with phones/cameras might had gotten the same reaction from me too. There was no reason in the world for them to film that officer. They started filming him the second he walked in.There's a good chance he wouldn't have acted as he did if the "cameras weren't rolling". He may have been covering his own azz by his actions.

I wish that every one of you who complain about LE would walk in their shoes for just one day! Because one day is all it's going to take for you to see the other side of the stories.

DaveS

The cops walked in with a loaded M4 at the ready.... for a group of 18 year old girls having lunch and bothering no one. You're damned right they video taped it! They'd a got a lot more than a video had they walked up like that on my daughter.

[GoneBallistic]

Seems to me the officer should have been on his best behavior with cameras rolling. Why would he intentionally make an azz out of himself when he knew cameras were rolling?

[TMF]

Seems to me the officer should have been on his best behavior with cameras rolling. Why would he intentionally make an azz out of himself when he knew cameras were rolling?

He was showing off what a big boy he was. In his mind that is how an officer is supposed to conduct himself, from the position of authority rather than a peace officer. A peace officer would have responded to the call, been cordial with the young ladies and wished them a good day. This guy doesn't see the role of police that way. He sees it as a position where you can assert your control over others, and should. All because in high school the other boys whooped on him and none of the girls would touch his pee pee.

[DaveTN]

Maybe because your average citizen who encounters LEO isn't prepared with 2 or 3 friends with video recording devices as these girls where. It seems they were waiting for an encounter with LE. Had it been me investigating, those folks with phones/cameras might had gotten the same reaction from me too. There was no reason in the world for them to film that officer. They started filming him the second he walked in.There's a good chance he wouldn't have acted as he did if the "cameras weren't rolling". He may have been covering his own azz by his actions.
 
I wish that every one of you who complain about LE would walk in their shoes for just one day! Because one day is all it's going to take for you to see the other side of the stories.
 
DaveS

I’ve walked in their shoes. I defend the cops checking them out and I defend the friends filming it. When the cops are called or see something unusual they check it out; they don’t need PC or RAS to do that. Getting stopped by the cops is also unusual and the friends filmed that; they need no permission to do that.

The cop was being a jerk though. But that’s just an observation from someone that has done his job.

[TMF]

The cop was being a jerk though. But that’s just an observation from someone that has done his job.

The way I tell the difference between a jerk cop and a cop just doing his job is whether or not they conduct themselves in the same manner they would conduct themselves if they weren't wearing a badge. I don't believe this man would make it far in life if he talked to people like that, especially young women. If he talked to people like that in civilian clothes he'd not make it far before someone eventually punched him in the mouth. I get that cops need to assert themselves with criminals, but wouldn't one address a criminal the same no matter what they were wearing? Now, had he approached these ladies and they were rude and uncooperative I could understand his demeanor, but everything he does just screams douche, and the cherry on top is the moron standing in the background with his rifle at the ready as if those young ladies are about to turn a Subway into downtown Ramadi. Just rediculous.

[DaveTN]

The way I tell the difference between a jerk cop and a cop just doing his job is whether or not they conduct themselves in the same manner they would conduct themselves if they weren't wearing a badge. I don't believe this man would make it far in life if he talked to people like that, especially young women. If he talked to people like that in civilian clothes he'd not make it far before someone eventually punched him in the mouth. I get that cops need to assert themselves with criminals, but wouldn't one address a criminal the same no matter what they were wearing? Now, had he approached these ladies and they were rude and uncooperative I could understand his demeanor, but everything he does just screams douche, and the cherry on top is the moron standing in the background with his rifle at the ready as if those young ladies are about to turn a Subway into downtown Ramadi. Just rediculous.

I approached people and talked to them the way I would want to be talked to. How it went after that was up to them. Due to the amount of Officers there I am going to say they were dispatched. As you know; when cops are dispatched they respond and check things out. He could have had a polite conversation with them and left. He decided to do otherwise.

The rifle doesn’t bother me. When we responded to MWAG calls (simple possession) if I was a back-up Officer I grabbed a shotgun (only because I didn’t have a rifle). We don’t know what information the Officers had prior to making contact. I tried to be prepared for the worst case scenario. When that didn’t happen the shotgun would go back in the rack and I would drive away.

[TMF]

I approached people and talked to them the way I would want to be talked to. How it went after that was up to them. Due to the amount of Officers there I am going to say they were dispatched. As you know; when cops are dispatched they respond and check things out. He could have had a polite conversation with them and left. He decided to do otherwise.

The rifle doesn’t bother me. When we responded to MWAG calls (simple possession) if I was a back-up Officer I grabbed a shotgun (only because I didn’t have a rifle). We don’t know what information the Officers had prior to making contact. I tried to be prepared for the worst case scenario. When that didn’t happen the shotgun would go back in the rack and I would drive away.

It's not so much the presence of the rifle, it's his posture. Upon getting in there and seeing a bunch of teenaged girls that should have been a clue they weren't al Qaeda. How that officer is presenting himself with that rifle is damn near comical. It looks like something that gets written into a script to depict untrained and inept, Podunk wannabe cops. If I'd a walked in there like that ready for a MWAG active shooter and saw what the situation really was I would have felt like an ahole, then relaxed my "combat" posture. This guy is standing there like he's seen one too many SEAL movies.

[DaveTN]

It's not so much the presence of the rifle, it's his posture. Upon getting in there and seeing a bunch of teenaged girls that should have been a clue they weren't al Qaeda. How that officer is presenting himself with that rifle is damn near comical. It looks like something that gets written into a script to depict untrained and inept, Podunk wannabe cops. If I'd a walked in there like that ready for a MWAG active shooter and saw what the situation really was I would have felt like an ahole, then relaxed my "combat" posture. This guy is standing there like he's seen one too many SEAL movies.

I had to go back and watch the video again. I don’t see that? He is standing outside the entry point with the rifle pointed down and is in a relaxed position talking to someone. When they go outside he walks out with the weapon still pointed down, leans over and says something to the primary (Probably; “I’m going to clear”.) and returns to his squad. I see a cop being a jerk in this, but it’s not that cop. IMO that is.

[GoneBallistic]

Probably just a boot. Or whatever cops call new guys.

[TMF]

I had to go back and watch the video again. I don’t see that? He is standing outside the entry point with the rifle pointed down and is in a relaxed position talking to someone. When they go outside he walks out with the weapon still pointed down, leans over and says something to the primary (Probably; “I’m going to clear”.) and returns to his squad. I see a cop being a jerk in this, but it’s not that cop. IMO that is.

It's pointed down, but his posture is at the ready the manner he's holding it in. This is when they're still inside. Just silly to look at considering the context. On top of that there's the other cop being a jerk. The whole thing makes me cringe.

[DaveS]

I agree that the Cop was a jerk. I've stated that in earlier posts. I just can't get over that everyone (so it seems) wants to video the cops. Well, on the other hand, we record them on dash cam so I guess it's turn-a-bouts fair play.

 

DaveS

[DaveTN]

I agree that the Cop was a jerk. I've stated that in earlier posts. I just can't get over that everyone (so it seems) wants to video the cops. Well, on the other hand, we record them on dash cam so I guess it's turn-a-bouts fair play.
 
DaveS

This is 2013, I can’t imagine that any cop (or anyone else for that matter) would do anything they wouldn’t want to see on TV or posted on the net. Yet it happens all the time.

I see no problem with filming the cops. Now, if you are obstructing them from doing their job, like the woman was that wouldn’t move away from the cops trying to take a guy into custody on a traffic stop; then you get arrested and have your day in court. Obstructing has nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the actions (or inactions) of the person holding it.