MO Cop to open-carry chicks: "Show me your papers!"

[Fallguy]

For one, that is why I don't carry open. I don't go fishing for a confrontation or go out to show off I have a gun. I have been pulled over several times by LEO's while driving for what I would consider bogus stops here in my town back when I first got my carry permit. Things like I didn't see your seat belt and of course I was asked if I was armed due to the fact that it tells the police by your license plate to you possess a carry permit. I guess they ask hoping they will catch me packing and not have my permit with me. All of that took place for about the first year after I got my permit but now all the police do is wave and I wave back as we pass each other on the road. I think all in all the girls should have checked out what the laws are in MO. before going into the state because each states laws read differently and if your going to visit a neighboring state check their carry laws first. If they have a carry law but it is conceal only then you either don't carry or you carry concealed...............jmho.

 

Just because you OC doesn't mean you are looking for a confrontation or showing off.

 

For the ZILLIONTH time your HCP info is NOT connected to your license plate.  When your license plate is checked the only information returned is the Name and Address of the registered owner (a check if it is stolen can be run with it also or separately).  Now, Yes, you can take the name and address information and run it to get the DL/HCP information of the Registered Owner who may or may not be the current driver of the vehicle. 

 

What makes you think they didn't know the law in MO?  You can OC without a permit in MO.

[Guest nra37922]

A prick with a badge is still a prick...

[daddyo]

Just because you OC doesn't mean you are looking for a confrontation or showing off.

 

For the ZILLIONTH time your HCP info is NOT connected to your license plate.  When your license plate is checked the only information returned is the Name and Address of the registered owner (a check if it is stolen can be run with it also or separately).  Now, Yes, you can take the name and address information and run it to get the DL/HCP information of the Registered Owner who may or may not be the current driver of the vehicle. 

 

What makes you think they didn't know the law in MO?  You can OC without a permit in MO.

 

This. I don't understand the mindset that says people who OC are just out trying to stir the pot.

[Raoul]

I noticed the LEO rejected the carry permit as identification. I guess it's not considered ID in MO.

What's the law in TN? Can I use my HCP as identification?

I used it to vote last time around.

[Randall53]

I've seen some say that if you don't exercise a right you could lose it, sometimes specifying the right to OC. Now, I do agree with this, but it seems we are losing them anyway at the hands of a growing number of LEO's that either don't know them, or don't care.

[TripleDigitRide]

Sadly, a person's right not to feel uncomfortable trumps your second amendment right every time. Edited September 15, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[daddyo]

Ha, right? I hate that guy!

Just ranting though. It makes me upset to see a personality deficient cop push around a bunch of young girls. I realize they're not all like this. I'm sure plenty of cops encounter carriers in the similar scenarios and treat them with the respect a law abiding citizen deserves, it's just that we don't see that posted to YouTube. Been a high density of cop hating threads on here lately though. I hate crappy cops as much as the next guy but seems like we've suddenly had an influx of them.

 

Google "open carry good cops" and see what turns up.

[JayC]

Please stop telling people this myth.  A license plate check does NOT show if you have a permit or not!  It never has, they must run your drivers license number in order to see if a person has a permit or not, and that only works for TN permit holders.

 

For one, that is why I don't carry open. I don't go fishing for a confrontation or go out to show off I have a gun. I have been pulled over several times by LEO's while driving for what I would consider bogus stops here in my town back when I first got my carry permit. Things like I didn't see your seat belt and of course I was asked if I was armed due to the fact that it tells the police by your license plate to you possess a carry permit. I guess they ask hoping they will catch me packing and not have my permit with me. All of that took place for about the first year after I got my permit but now all the police do is wave and I wave back as we pass each other on the road. I think all in all the girls should have checked out what the laws are in MO. before going into the state because each states laws read differently and if your going to visit a neighboring state check their carry laws first. If they have a carry law but it is conceal only then you either don't carry or you carry concealed...............jmho.

 

[JayC]

There is no natural right to feel comfortable, or to not feel uncomfortable.  There is a natural right to carry a firearm for protection.

 

Sadly, a person's right not to feel uncomfortable trumps your second amendment right every time.

 

[Wyldk2]

I used it to vote last time around.

I used mine to buy ammo last time i bought ammo. And used mine to vote last time I voted.

 

If you are not operating a motor vehicle yet have your firearm on you,you still have to keep the permit with you. If you're in no vehicle and have no gun on you, I believe you don't have to carry ID with you everywhere. But it sure helps avoid trouble with some cops.

[Wingshooter]

I used it to vote last time around.

Me too :)

[Fallguy]

I used mine to buy ammo last time i bought ammo. And used mine to vote last time I voted.

 

If you are not operating a motor vehicle yet have your firearm on you,you still have to keep the permit with you. If you're in no vehicle and have no gun on you, I believe you don't have to carry ID with you everywhere. But it sure helps avoid trouble with some cops.

 

I think that can vary from state to state, but otherwise I believe you are correct, I know of no law that requires you to carry a government issued ID.  

 

If you are in a situation where you must indentify yourself to a LEO there is a minimum amount of information you must give (can't recall details at the moment) like name, DOB, but that can be given verbally. 

[Q-tip]

If I remember correctly, name, DOB, and address are sufficient. 

[tnguy]

 I know of no law that requires you to carry a government issued ID.  

 

I do. But it's not for citizens :)

[DaveS]

"....in Nazi style, he's gathering up papers... "   Actually I think he's doing his job in collecting ID's "to run". Everyone says "they are committing no crime". I guess the officer had no idea if any of those armed folks were felons or not. Running ID was the only way to find out. Folks, if we don't want to go through this stuff, CONCEAL it!  Except those idiots walking around cop fishing with a gun and video camera. The cop could have done a little better, but I suppose that's his personality.

 

This crap is getting out of hand! I'll speak for myself. I don't want some jerk with a video camera try to represent me and my rights!

 

DaveS

[TMF]

"....in Nazi style, he's gathering up papers... " Actually I think he's doing his job in collecting ID's "to run". Everyone says "they are committing no crime". I guess the officer had no idea if any of those armed folks were felons or not. Running ID was the only way to find out. Folks, if we don't want to go through this stuff, CONCEAL it! Except those idiots walking around cop fishing with a gun and video camera. The cop could have done a little better, but I suppose that's his personality.

This crap is getting out of hand! I'll speak for myself. I don't want some jerk with a video camera try to represent me and my rights!

DaveS

I'm not convinced these girls went out fishing, as it seems the video doesn't start until they are approached. Honestly, with some of the crap that goes on I don't think it is a bad idea to record encounters with LEOs, especially when one of them shows up with an M4 at the ready like in this video. Really? Is that necessary for a group of young girls eating lunch and bothering no one to show up with rifle at the ready?

Then there is the part where this cop acts like a total dick. That is also unnecessary. Yes, someone called the cops so he as compelled to investigate, but had he been half as courteous as the citizens he was investigating there would have been nothing remarkable about this video. I'm not the kind to go pick fights with law enforcement, but if this monkey would have approached me in this manner it would not have ended well for either of us. I'm not in the mood to be treated like that by an over zealous douche hammer who thinks his badge makes him all powerful. This is the guy that gives good cops a bad rep.

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

"....in Nazi style, he's gathering up papers... "   Actually I think he's doing his job in collecting ID's "to run". Everyone says "they are committing no crime". I guess the officer had no idea if any of those armed folks were felons or not. Running ID was the only way to find out. Folks, if we don't want to go through this stuff, CONCEAL it!  Except those idiots walking around cop fishing with a gun and video camera. The cop could have done a little better, but I suppose that's his personality.

 

This crap is getting out of hand! I'll speak for myself. I don't want some jerk with a video camera try to represent me and my rights!

 

DaveS

It does not work that way. "I dont know" is not a reasionable articulatable suspition that they are.

[DaveS]

In my opinion, when you open carry, then you and your friends stick video cameras in the cop face, and repeat over and over....did I break any laws?, It's my right, why do you need my ID...over and over and over. How do you want the cop to act? What point are they trying to get across?  Show your damn ID, and get on with life. Simple. Yes, the cop was a little lacking in bedside manner, but I would be too if someone shoved video cameras in my face, and wouldn't answer my questions. Yeah, folks, let's do our selves a big favor....and keep acting like asshats! It'll go well and far for our future 2A rights!

 

DaveS

[DaveS]

It does not work that way. "I dont know" is not a reasionable articulatable suspition that they are.

Sir; which one of the armed persons was wearing a "sandwich board" stating whether they were a felon or not? I didn't see one. Did you? I sure wished it was as easy as looking at someone as to whether or not they were legally carrying. How nice life would be. If people can't be ID'd (papers please) how is LE to know?

 

DaveS

[Chucktshoes]

Sir; which one of the armed persons was wearing a "sandwich board" stating whether they were a felon or not? I didn't see one. Did you? I sure wished it was as easy as looking at someone as to whether or not they were legally carrying. How nice life would be. If people can't be ID'd (papers please) how is LE to know?

DaveS

Unless the officer has a RAS that someone has committed crime, then to be blunt, it isn't any of their damn business. When did things change that it was incumbent upon a citizen (subject?) to prove that they are innocent of any wrongdoing to the overseers...errr...authorities? Edited October 26, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Hes not. Its not his job to know all. Its his job to investigate crimes when he does know or resinably expects. Thats the reason for the RAS standard..

[DaveS]

Unless the officer has a RAS that someone has committed crime, then to be blunt, it isn't any of their damn business. When did things change that it was incumbent upon a citizen (subject?) to prove that they are innocent of any wrongdoing to the overseers...errr...authorities?

I don't know about MO, but let's use TN as an example (may be the same in MO, I don't know). Is it legal to CC or OC in TN?

 

DaveS

[Chucktshoes]

The laws are different here than there. In TN the carrying of a firearm is a crime, in Missouri it isn't. That means that here the open wearing of a firearm provides RAS. In Missouri where open carrying is a legal activity, the open wearing of a firearm does not in and of itself provide RAS of a crime. Therefore unless there were some other evidence that provided RAS of a crime, he can ask all the questions he wants to but the girls were under no legal obligation to answer them. The cop also had no standing to detain them without providing that RAS.

[TMF]

In my opinion, when you open carry, then you and your friends stick video cameras in the cop face, and repeat over and over....did I break any laws?, It's my right, why do you need my ID...over and over and over. How do you want the cop to act? What point are they trying to get across? Show your damn ID, and get on with life. Simple. Yes, the cop was a little lacking in bedside manner, but I would be too if someone shoved video cameras in my face, and wouldn't answer my questions. Yeah, folks, let's do our selves a big favor....and keep acting like asshats! It'll go well and far for our future 2A rights!

DaveS

That's the thing, they did show ID and the cop continued to be a dick and harass them. They weren't breaking the law, he knew they weren't breaking the law and yet he continued to be unprofessional and rude. What it boils down to is the cop had a chip on his shoulder, didnt like that they were armed and was attempting to legislate from his badge. He deserves to be on a desk making coffee for real cops.

[TMF]

I don't know about MO, but let's use TN as an example (may be the same in MO, I don't know). Is it legal to CC or OC in TN?

DaveS

Even if this had been in TN, and it wasn't, the only thing the officer should be doing is validating their permit and then get in with his day, not sit there and play thirty questions with someone doing nothing wrong.