I applied for my HCP today.

[jgrauman]

i'll talk to him and find out exactly what he was told and from whom before i start saying, "i think it was...."

[jgrauman]

I just talked to my buddy and he told me he found it on here http://state.tn.us/safety/handgun/qualifications.htm this is the only info i could find though.

"Effective July 1, 2005, Tennessee handgun carry permit law will now allow certain applicants already exempt from complying with firing range provisions of the current statute to also be exempt from any classroom requirements. Those current exceptions are applicants who proof to the department that within five (5) years from the date of application for handgun permit, the applicant has:

Been certified by the police officer's standards and training commission, or

successfully completed training at the law enforcement training academy; or

successfully completed the firearms training course required for armed security guards; or

successfully completed all handgun training of not less than four (4) hours as required by any branch of the military."

[Guest Phantom6]

successfully completed all handgun training of not less than four (4) hours as required by any branch of the military."

You must have "Pistol Qualified" on your DD214.

I have had a lot of vets in my classes that had served at various times throughout the last 60 years. Most were fairly competant riflemen and had schlepped a variety of long guns through all kinds of conditions ranging from outstanding to FUBAR but couldn't hit squat with a handgun to save their lives. I trained an active duty USA Master Sgt. one time that given the right coordinates could drop an artillary shell on a 10 meter target from 25 miles which I thought was damned impressive but couldn't hit a nine inch paper plate at ten yds with a .22 cal. revolver from a supported position which I thought was pretty sad. He kept saying somthing about not being able to find the lanyard. When I got through with him he qualified easily with a score of something like a 436 on a standard B-27 where a possible best is 480. I only had 2 that were pistol qualified. They took the classes with their wives. One was a tread head and the other a SEAL. The SEAL was the only one that could really shoot a pistol though. It has been my experience as a trainer that most prior military would have difficulty hitting the broad side of a barn from the inside with a pistol.

[Marswolf]

I remember that when the idea came up of doing a fast-track for veterans to get their carry permits that I commented that just because you know guns, doesn't mean you know didly about the state's gun laws. The qualification itself is pretty much worthless, except to tell other states with equally idiotic qualifications requirements that Tennessee does it too. Reciprocity and all that.

But the classroom stuff is information you need to know to keep you out of legal trouble for packing where you shouldn't or thinking that you have LE powers because you have a permit. Everyone needs to learn the law and demonstrate on a test that they do understand it.

[Guest Phantom6]

I remember that when the idea came up of doing a fast-track for veterans to get their carry permits that I commented that just because you know guns, doesn't mean you know didly about the state's gun laws. The qualification itself is pretty much worthless, except to tell other states with equally idiotic qualifications requirements that Tennessee does it too. Reciprocity and all that.

But the classroom stuff is information you need to know to keep you out of legal trouble for packing where you shouldn't or thinking that you have LE powers because you have a permit. Everyone needs to learn the law and demonstrate on a test that they do understand it.

Well, we and a few other schools in this state spend quite a bit of time on firearm safety and the fundamentals of pistol shooting because while the safety aspects are the same, shooting a pistol and shooting a long gun are not at all the same and before I sign my name to a document that says Joe or Jane Lunchbox can carry a firearm in my community I'd like to know that he or she can do better than get one point for hitting the paper and 2 points for hitting the black silhouette at various yardages.

As mentioned in another thread, it is our conviction that this target just won't pass muster (and absolutely does not for us) though it apparantly does for some -

Actually, the the legal stuff is really as simple as 1,2,3 (& 4). Here (below) it is pretty much in a nut shell.

1. What are the legal, moral and ethical implications of firing a bullet from a gun in this state? Where ever it goes, whatever it strikes, telephone pole or ten year old, you own it (the bullet).
   
2. When can you use deadly force? When you a victim, not an instigator and you are in fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury.
   
3. Where can you NOT carry a firearm in Tennessee? It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm:
   • within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverage, as defined in 57-3-101(a)(1)(A),. or beer as defined in 57-6-102(1) , are served for on premises consumption.
     
   • in any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress.
     
   • in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense for a non-student adult to possess a firearm, if such firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by such adult, or by any other person acting with the expresses or implied consent of such adult, while such vehicle is on school property.
     
   • on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.

• in any properly posted building or area. An individual, corporation, business entity or government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by § 39-17-1351 - § 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of such individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of such prohibition shall be posted in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited.If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of any such property as well as within the confines of a building located on such property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. (Editor's note: notice the word "may" here. They did not use the terms "shall" or "will" for a reason. So, remember the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item or action depicted within the circle is not mandatory under the law.) The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

Pursuant to § 39-17-1359, the owner/operator of this property has banned weapons on this property, or within this building or this portion of this building. Failure to comply with this prohibition is punishable as a criminal act under state law and may subject the violator to a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500).

Oh and,

4. You are not a freakin' cop and you have no police powers!

[Marswolf]

Phantom, I certainly wasn't trying to say that none of the schools teach their students useful things about handling handguns. I was trying to say that even if you are expert at handling them because of prior training, that doesn't mean you understand Tennessee law and that you should have to take a written test to prove that you do have a good grasp of what you can and can not do.

I do have a bit of a problem with different schools using different criteria in scoring on the shooting qualification test and setting different distances for part of the shots. It seems to me that for fairness, all schools should shoot the same number of rounds at the same distances and use the same scoring system. But in even the most stringent schools, I still claim that the qualification is so easy as to be pretty pointless.

If you can't pass the simple carry permit shooting qualification, you probably shouldn't own a handgun.

I understand that at legitimate self-defense distances, you don't have to be an eagle-eye shooter. Not going into a panic is probably more important, but we don't test for that.

[Guest Phantom6]

Phantom, I certainly wasn't trying to say that none of the schools teach their students useful things about handling handguns.

Oh, I know that and certainly didn't intend to infer that you did. In case you haven't noticed, this subject really gets my blood pressure up. You see, unfortunately there are a bunch of unscrupulous "schools" (none of which I've noticed posting on this forum yet) that are nothing but certificate mills, collecting their fees without providing much, if any of the requisite information.

I've talked to numerous folks (several that post regularly on this board) that have told me that after paying their money they were sat down in some guy's garage for the DOS video presentation which is 45 min. in duration then taken to a vacant field to try and "hit the silhouette" and sent on their way with their certificate of completion after tying up two hours of their Saturday morning without even the courtesy of a reach around .

I do have a bit of a problem with different schools using different criteria in scoring on the shooting qualification test and setting different distances for part of the shots.

Me too. We follow the DOS lesson plan to a "t" with the exception that we add 2 more hours of NRA instruction to the DOS's limited product. I know of a few other schools that do this. Yes, it takes more time and yes we charge more for it but our student's scores on the tests, both written and shooting are consistantly well above those of students from other schools. IMHO this makes for safer and more educated shooters. I get emails and calls from former students confirming these higher scores as they discuss and compare their experiences in our classes with people they work or go to school with.

If you can't pass the simple carry permit shooting qualification, you probably shouldn't own a handgun.

Well, there are lots of reasons to leagally own a handgun. Hunting, competitive shooting, recreational shooting, collecting and of course personal protection. I don't have a problem with them owning one but they sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to carry one around in public in my community or yours if they can't pass the simple shooting requirements.

Fortunately, the state is taking steps to remedy the situation with the certificate mills. They are sending undercover operatives into the classes to observe and report on the dilligence of the instructors in presenting the material as required. Recently, they have begun to require that all schools provide a schedule of classes a month in advance so that they can more easily accomplish this task. A lot of schools will be de-certified and more folks will at least get the training as prescribed by the DOS. Then, standardization good or lacking as it may be will be closer to the norm and we will be dealing with safer more knowledgable permit holders.

[Marswolf]

Well, I can say that I scored 100 on the test. All of my rounds went in the black part.

BTW, I also scored 100% on the written part.

So I guess that makes me perfect.

[saintsfanbrian]

Careful, Mars. Remember, we have only had 1 perfect person to walk this planet, and we crucified him. We now have better tools to do that so it won't take as long.

Nail gun anyone?

Jesus Christ walks in to an inn. He hands the inn keeper 3 nails and says, "Can you put me up for the night?"

Written by a Christian that can take a joke.

[Marswolf]

That was horrible.

I love it!

[dralarms]

Oh, I know that and certainly didn't intend to infer that you did. In case you haven't noticed, this subject really gets my blood pressure up. You see, unfortunately there are a bunch of unscrupulous "schools" (none of which I've noticed posting on this forum yet) that are nothing but certificate mills, collecting their fees without providing much, if any of the requisite information.

I've talked to numerous folks (several that post regularly on this board) that have told me that after paying their money they were sat down in some guy's garage for the DOS video presentation which is 45 min. in duration then taken to a vacant field to try and "hit the silhouette" and sent on their way with their certificate of completion after tying up two hours of their Saturday morning without even the courtesy of a reach around .

Me too. We follow the DOS lesson plan to a "t" with the exception that we add 2 more hours of NRA instruction to the DOS's limited product. I know of a few other schools that do this. Yes, it takes more time and yes we charge more for it but our student's scores on the tests, both written and shooting are consistantly well above those of students from other schools. IMHO this makes for safer and more educated shooters. I get emails and calls from former students confirming these higher scores as they discuss and compare their experiences in our classes with people they work or go to school with.

Well, there are lots of reasons to leagally own a handgun. Hunting, competitive shooting, recreational shooting, collecting and of course personal protection. I don't have a problem with them owning one but they sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to carry one around in public in my community or yours if they can't pass the simple shooting requirements.

Fortunately, the state is taking steps to remedy the situation with the certificate mills. They are sending undercover operatives into the classes to observe and report on the dilligence of the instructors in presenting the material as required. Recently, they have begun to require that all schools provide a schedule of classes a month in advance so that they can more easily accomplish this task. A lot of schools will be de-certified and more folks will at least get the training as prescribed by the DOS. Then, standardization good or lacking as it may be will be closer to the norm and we will be dealing with safer more knowledgable permit holders.

This is a good thing. When I went to class it was pretty simple, but when my wife went they actually told the class (I sat in for her support) that you could now carry into any place that served beer & such for on site consumption. Well I went on line and verified that the id10t was wrong and called him to correct him. He said "that's what we were told, it passed when they passed the "carry into a place that sold for off premise consumption" so we were just passing it along". Well I told him he needed to get on the phone to every last one of his "students" and correct himself before he got someone thrown in jail because not everyone will check up on a LE when he say's something.

So yes they need to tighten down on some of the classes and make dang sure you are given the correct info, and they also need to re do the DOS video and put it on DVD (it will last longer and have better picture quality), during her class it was so bad some of the voices were muffled and you couldn't really understand them.

[Guest Tombstone]

I took my class at CCA and thought that it was well taught, but a tad too easy. I was worried that it was going to be tough, but I scored 100 on the written test and only had two rounds fall out of the nine ring. I guess I'll be pretty good if I am attacked by a motionless target. LOL.

I know that it would take more time, but I wish that they could include some situational shooting scenarios so that a shooter could get a small sense of what it might be like in a real situation. Don't get me wrong; I understand that nothing can simulate the real thing. But I know that I would feel a lot better knowing that those around me that carried were well trained. I think that this could also could be one more way to quiet the anti-gun folks.

[Guest Phantom6]

I took my class at CCA and thought that it was well taught, but a tad too easy. I was worried that it was going to be tough, but I scored 100 on the written test and only had two rounds fall out of the nine ring. I guess I'll be pretty good if I am attacked by a motionless target. LOL.

I know that it would take more time, but I wish that they could include some situational shooting scenarios so that a shooter could get a small sense of what it might be like in a real situation. Don't get me wrong; I understand that nothing can simulate the real thing. But I know that I would feel a lot better knowing that those around me that carried were well trained. I think that this could also could be one more way to quiet the anti-gun folks.

Yup. Paper targets on a square range beware.

No, unfortunately there is no time for situational shooting scenarios in the TN Handgun Carry Permit class. That's why we teach Personal Protection classes . Lots of situational shooting scenarios available there because we believe that one should train as they will be forced to fight.

[Guest Phantom6]

This is a good thing. When I went to class it was pretty simple, but when my wife went they actually told the class (I sat in for her support) that you could now carry into any place that served beer & such for on site consumption. Well I went on line and verified that the id10t was wrong and called him to correct him. He said "that's what we were told, it passed when they passed the "carry into a place that sold for off premise consumption" so we were just passing it along". Well I told him he needed to get on the phone to every last one of his "students" and correct himself before he got someone thrown in jail because not everyone will check up on a LE when he say's something.

So yes they need to tighten down on some of the classes and make dang sure you are given the correct info, and they also need to re do the DOS video and put it on DVD (it will last longer and have better picture quality), during her class it was so bad some of the voices were muffled and you couldn't really understand them.

My students see it on DVD. Doesn't make the content much more tolerable but the picture quality doesn't degrade over the hundreds of times that it is used in a year. I'd still like to see that Glock 357 magnum they talk about in the begining of the video presentation.

[Guest Medic908]

Yep, 90 days. But it probably won't take half that time.

Just got mine in the mail today. 30 calendar days from the date of application at the DMV to receiving it in the mail - not bad...

[Marswolf]

Well congratulations. Now get packing!